Are these pictures of real nazi UFO's ?

Originally posted by dshut69
The Nazis were desperate for military weaponry, so quite what a saucer covered in portholes would have done for them I fail to see.

Well every military aircraft has transparencies they are piloted after all without them failing to see would be exactly the problem.

Even vehicles as heavily armoured as tanks need to have some method for the driver to see where he is going, although, now days they are probably using cameras.

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by merka
Something that is strange though, is the wide variety of crafts. They clearly didnt get these working properly even if they are real, or we would have seen them at the end of the war.

Unless they were designed *not* to be seen. Please don't make general assumptions like that. Your other points were very valid, but this reeks of naive assumptions.

How are you supposed to not see an aircraft? The Germans had some pretty serious technology always one step ahead of the allies, but they wherent in some magical wonderland where they had cloaked discs flying around probably piloted by Nazi garden gnomes. Even today, we dont have anything close to active camoflage (we have the theory, but nothing in practice). Even the aliens has obvious problems, since they litter our skies posing for photographs, lol.

The only reason I can imagine for so many variants is mockups of possible designs, while they only really tested the jet powered VTOL disc which probably never flew all that well.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by merka]

i love it. this is why hang with ATS, it keeps my imagination fueling. i would ask the question-how much money did this take to reproduce, would a fake pay 10,000 dollars or more to play a game? i know i would use that money to game down women! i find it weird that people would wast time and large amounts of cash to excite few. remember to always think rational and never come to quick answers, analyze 360 degrees.

There are a couple of questions I'd like to ask -- if anyone knows.

Which came first? The UFO photos and films made by George Adamski, or the drawings and photos of the alleged Nazi UFOs? The classic Adamski UFO seems to be the Haunebu II of the drawings, so if these things really existed in the 40s, the story could have some truth. But... there are questions that arise.

Why are the drawings a bit too amateurish for genuine German technical documents? The handwriting in the drawings is not too sophisticated, and the person at the drawing board could have used the ruler a bit more often. Real technical drawings of an engineered device from those days were actually very good, quite comparable to any modern-day drawings even if we use CAD nowadays, and these drawings are just not quite on that level. For an engineer, they look like having been drawn by an amateur with more imagination than professional technical drawing skills.

The texts in the tech documents are in German, and I couldn't see any typos, so the originator of the documents was possibly a genuine German. However, such documents could have been even more sophisticated even in the 40s. A Very Important document might have been even printed decently, and not made by using a typewriter and a stencil duplicator (a kind of a copier of that time).

I find the story of the Nazi UFOs extremely fascinating, but I'm still looking for more evidence to be sure. Especially more good-quality photographs, color or black-and-white.


--Doc Li

[edit on 13.2.2008 by Doc Lithium]

In my constant search for information that could be regarded as pro or con I came across this article, I cannot vouch for it but I can present it.

Cornwell was an Investigator with the 970th CIC Detachment of the U.S Army. Cornwell personally examined a wingless 300 foot long cigar shaped field propulsion craft which was made during WW II

The Cornwell interview can be viewed here

reply to post by Doc Lithium

Why are the drawings a bit too amateurish for genuine German technical documents?

Well I can direct you to my previous post which has a link to a debunk article on page 2, here is the link again.

www.forteantimes.com...

The question of provenance on the pictures is exactly the subject of my original post, I am glad you share interest in the same question.

Welcome to ATS by the way.

cool stuff! Where do you think the Nazi's got the idea for these types of craft?

Originally posted by sherpa

Cornwell was an Investigator with the 970th CIC Detachment of the U.S Army. Cornwell personally examined a wingless 300 foot long cigar shaped field propulsion craft which was made during WW II

The Cornwell interview can be viewed here

Notice how everything but the actual "Veteran Cornwell" interview is based on fairly crappy sci-fi science talk based on assumptions.

Reading the interview and the actual response (and not the further assumptions by the interviewer), it could very well be real! Except there isnt actually anything remotely like advanced technology, UFO and electro-space-distortion-magnetic-tesla-super-powered-xray-photon-antigravity propulsion talk.

I think "Veteran Cornwell" saw the German ICBM project, which incidently was large "cylinders" much like a Saturn rocket.

reply to post by merka

I think "Veteran Cornwell" saw the German ICBM project, which incidently was large "cylinders" much like a Saturn rocket.

Thats exactly the thought that came to mind when I read it, however he says :
"I do recall thinking that it was larger than any WW II submarine. I will estimate that it was several hundred feet long and maybe 30 feet high and perhaps 20 feet across the top."

Thats one big rocket.

Also:
"I went all through the thing and I noticed that one of the two front windows had been broken out. They appeared to be made out of very thick glass."

Why would they put windows in a rocket ?

It is worth mentioning though that I have read somewhere about plans for a manned V2 perhaps that may have had windows.

reply to post by sherpa

Well, "estimate" being the keyword
I mean, even the V2 rocket would be described as HUGE if someone saw it for the first time, there was no precedence...
And yeah, some of those rockets where re-designed to have pilots too I think.

Something else I have found:

The files in question are F.B.I. file numbers62-83894-383, 62-838994-384 and 62-83894-385. Their date is 11/7/57 to 11/8/57. They deal with a Polish immigrant, then living in the United States, who reported his wartime experience to the Bureau hoping it might throw some light on UFO sightings seen in Texas at about this time.

The time of the sighting was in 1944, the place was Gut Alt Golssen, approximately 30 miles east of Berlin. The informant, whose name has been deleted, states that while he was a prisoner of war working for the Germans, a flying object arose nearby from behind an enclosure hidden from view by a 50 foot high tarpaulin-type wall. It rose about 500 feet then moved away horizontally.The only noise the object made was a high-pitched whine. The object was described as being 75 to 100 feet in diameter and 14feet high. It was composed of a dark gray stationary top and bottom sections five to six feet high with a rapidly moving center section producing only a blur and extending the circumference of the vehicle. Notably, the engine of their farm tractor stalled during this event and the SS guards told the driver not to attempt a restart until the whine could no longer be heard.

This is an extract from a book titled "Hitler's Flying Saucers: A Guide to German Flying Discs of the Second World War" by Henry Stevens.

Copies of the original FBI report can be seen here:
Click search books and then the book title to take you there.
books.google.com... 2iut2_y0zSaDSuRgA#PPA146,M1







[edit on 14-2-2008 by sherpa]

Another eye witness report pulled from a CIA document.

"Klein said that he was an engineer in the Ministry of Speer, (probably refers to Albert Speer, who in 1942 was Minister of Armourment and Ammunition for the Third Reich), and was present in Prague on the 14 February 1945, at the first experimental flight of a flying saucer.




I would suggest this was probably the Josef Andreas Epp Omega Diskus.

Google Video Link

If the embedded video does not work hit the Google link below it, Google embeds do not seem to work for me usually.




[edit on 14-2-2008 by sherpa]

The Germans were, I think, slightly ahead of the allies in terms of research into alternative plane designs and indeed jet propulsion. They just ran ut of time near the end of the war to perfect the work they were doing but their loss was our gain...

The Gotha 229 was a unique project undertaken by German engineers through and up to the end of the Second World War. The system, should it have reached operational status, would have been the first combat-ready flying wing of jet-powered design in history. The system was poised to make a grand entrance into the war with development proceeding up until Allied advancement halted all production of the 229.

The Go 229 began as the development Ho IX brought about by the Horton brothers, whom worked a great deal with powerless glider designs leading up to the war. As technology revolving around turbojets advanced, the idea of a powered glider came to light, leading up to the Ho IX V1 model. The IX V1 was developed to accept the BMW 109-003-1 turbojets but it was soon found that the radius of the engines were too large for the space allotted in the model. As such, this IX V1 was flown as a non-powered glider design.

A redesigned IX V2 soon came as a second prototype, this time with properly fitted Junkers 109-004B-1 turbojets and flown successfully, hitting speeds close to 600 miles per hour. This model suffered it own setback when the aircraft was lost while attempting a single engine landing. Nevertheless, the aircraft showed enough promise that the firm of Gothaer Waggonfabrik was given the task of developing the rudderless jet-powered design even further.

With Allied advancements across many fronts, the realized dream of the flying wing would not come to fruition. The development plant housing the Go 229 was soon overtaken by the Americans and the prototypes and available research were sent back to the United States for additional testing and research. 20 pre-production models of the Go 229 were planned yet only the 2 prototypes were ever produced.

American researchers would eventually come back to study the Go 229 flying wing in later years, leading up to the development of the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber which, in essence, became the Go 229 dream realized decades before. The Go 229 would go on to remain a study of "what might have been" should the Germans have been able to capitalize on its unique potential. With unparalleled speed and climbing ability, the Go 229 would have presented a most fearsome threat to bomber formations throughout the war.

The above is taken from:
www.militaryfactory.com...

Just my opinion, its stands to reason that at least some the ufo’s we see today are indeed man-made?

This is allegedly an eye witness account.

The first report comes to us courtesy of researcher Horst Schuppmann. A friend of Mr. Schuppmann's interviewed an eyewitness to German saucers during the Second World War. This report first appeared in the 1998 Geheimtechnologien.Wunderwaffen Und Irdischen Facetten Des UFO-Phaenomens by Karl-Heinz Zunneck.

The subject of this interview was a German pilot who flew many missions in a JU-52, taking off and touching down in rough, presumably outlying airfields. The Junkers JU-52 was an aircraft used by the Luftwaffe for many roles and could be described as a mainstay or a workhorse. It was a transport airplane, a troop carrier and even had been used as a bomber. It resembled and was used in a similar way to the American Douglas Dakota or DC-3.The main difference between the two aircraft was that the JU-52 had three engines as opposed to the Dakota's two and the JU-52lacked a traditional airframe, instead deriving structural strength from a unique corrugated metal shell, which also made the appearance of the JU-52 distinctive.

The sighting in question was reported to the author, Mr. Zunneck, by Horst Schuppmann whose friend knew the pilot of the JU-52 in question. The date was July, 1944. Accompanying the pilot on this three and one-half hour flight was a co-pilot, a mechanic,and the radio man. The airplane took off from Brest-Deblin and flew on a westerly course to Lublin. The flight was unfolding smoothly which was somewhat abnormal for the particular time and stage of the war. Over Stettin Lagoon preparations were made to land. A large white cross was sighted which was the marker for their goal, a meadow landing strip. The aircraft descended, landed normally and rolled toward a group of bushes which would hide the aircraft from view.

Then things took a decided turn to the abnormal. Harsh orders were received that the pilot, co-pilot and mechanic were not to exit the airplane. Suddenly, the radio man had vanished. The others waited an hour in vain for his return. Finally, the pilot decided to get out of the airplane and find his missing crewman,without orders, and on his own.


On the airfield itself nobody was to be seen. There was only one building visible which was a lonely hanger. The pilot, ever concerned with maintaining cover, headed straight for this hanger. Upon arrival he opened an narrow, high sliding door and entered, hoping to receive some information. No person was to be seen but what the pilot did see bewildered him so that the image was deeply ingrained in his mind.

There in the hanger stood three or four very large, round, dark dish shaped metal constructions on telescope-like leg stands. The objects were about 6 meters off the ground and the objects themselves were 12 to 15 meters in diameter. The pilot compared the shape of the objects to a giant soup dish or soup plate.

Suddenly, out of the half darkness a military guard emerged. The guard let the pilot know that he was in an area which was strictly off limits. In fact, the pilot was told, on no uncertain terms, to disappear immediately or this would be his last day on earth.

This day had started as a routine flight connecting two outlying airfields. This pilot had no expectations of seeing something so unusual that he barley had context in which to place it. Further, even as his mind was transfixed and in a process of trying to give understanding to what he was seeing, he was suddenly. jolted out of this tableau by a guard threatening his very life and ordering him to leave.

Of course the question of what those objects in the hanger really were comes back to this pilot even after almost 55 years. The pilot personally attributes it to the so called "Magnetscheibe", literally, "magnet-disk". According to the pilot rumors of these objects circulated in pilot circles since the summer of 1944./ex]

www.tiono.com... Page 88



[edit on 14-2-2008 by sherpa]

[edit on 14-2-2008 by sherpa]

Another FBI report. and a connection with the Natinal Security Council.

The time of the sighting was in 1944, the place was Gut Alt Golssen, approximately 30 miles east of Berlin. The informant, whose name has been deleted, states that while he was a prisoner of war working for the Germans, a flying object arose nearby from behind an enclosure hidden from view by a 50 foot high tarpaulin-type wall. It rose about 500 feet then moved away horizontally.The only noise the object made was a high-pitched whine. The object was described as being 75 to 100 feet in diameter and 14feet high. It was composed of a dark gray stationary top and bottom sections five to six feet high with a rapidly moving center section producing only a blur and extending the circumference of the vehicle. Notably, the engine of their farm tractor stalled during this event and the SS guards told the driver not to attempt a restart until the whine could no longer be heard.

Copies of originals.
















www.tiono.com... Pages 91-92

Thanks for sharing this sherpa, it certainly is an interesting read. I‘m sure that the work Tesla was doing has been continued and who knows where that has led us!

reply to post by smartie


Your welcome smartie, thanks for your post on the Go 229 it is a personal favourite of mine.

We know that research resulted in the B2 so who knows what other research led to.

Maybe now there is a connection to some of these saucer pictures I may be getting closer.

Mention of the "occult" brings us to another line of evidence concerning field propulsion, that put forth by Norbert Juergen-Ratthofer and Ralf Ettl. Mr. Ettl became involved while doing research for a film project on Dr. Wernher von Braun. A film company was paying for this research. A package or several packages of information were obtained by the production company which had more to do with UFOs than rocketry. This information was laid aside by Mr. Ettl but he returned to it after enlisting the help of Norbert Juergen-Ratthofer who had a special interest in that subject

The packages contained breathtakingly clear photographs of German saucers in flight. Some of these pictures may be just models but some look authentic and are posed against a landscape. Nowadays, pictures can be generated via computer and these pictures surfaced within modern times. At least one negative from these pictures which was given to Mr. Vladimir Terziski by Mr. Juergen-Ratthofer and seen by this writer, so at least not all of these pictures were computer generated. The pictures have been seen in public and through video film presentation, for about ten years.To the best of my knowledge these pictures have never been debunked using modern technical photo-analysis. Therefore, they have never been shown to be anything less than legitimate. Until they are shown to be less than legitimate, we must accept them as they are represented to us.

Besides the pictures, these writers provide an entire historical and cultural context for these saucers within the Third Reich, This contest involves secret organizations within the SS.Further, the context provided by these writers involving the occult, channeling, and extraterrestrials. This is the weak point of their presentation since the case for these latter connections is really not strong enough to be "in evidence".

Besides the books of Mr. Ettl and Mr. Juergen-Ratthofer, several other German language writers contribute books on a similar or related theme. The more notable are D.H. Haarmann and. Bergmann. Mr. Ettl and Mr. Juergen-Ratthofer themselves have written several books which are all in German language and available through their publisher. Mr. Ettl and Mr. Juergen-Ratthofer have also done two video films, "UFOs Das Dritte Reich Schlaege Zurueck?" and a second film, whose English title is "UFO Secrets of the 3rd Reich". This second film is very well done and contains the pictures mentioned earlier. These films should be seen by anyone seriously interested in German field propulsion saucers.

www.tiono.com... Page 100

There seems to be a video of the film "UFO Secrets of the 3rd Reich" on Google so I will include it here.
Again if the video embedding does not work click the Google link below.

Google Video Link

[edit on 14-2-2008 by sherpa]

reply to post by sherpa


Hi sherpa, very interesting thread of a very intriguing subject.

Here is a site with some more additional pictures of German Ufo look-alike Crafts.
www.eyepod.org...

Here you find some more additional info, videos and pictures as well, of the Ufo of Adamski of where also Doc Lithium speaks that looks almost exactly upon the Haunebu II and some comments of Jim Dilettoso of the videos and pictures made by Adamski.

www.eyepod.org...

Jim Dilettoso is a well known and respected expert in the field, his specialty is photograhic and video analysis. Mr.
Dilettoso had this to say on the matter of Adamski's work, what follows are his own words, written by himself in
response to questions concerning the Adamski photos.
Jim has this to say on the matter, this is a direct quote. FRJ
BH,JD, K et al, Regarding the Adamski photos. There is no 'proof' of a hoax. In fact, there is no photogrametric or
computer analysis of the Adamski case indicating a small object or a HOAX.

It is indeed very interesting information, but true or false, I really don’t know.
There are also rumours that the Nazi’s had contact with some Extraterrestrial group, but again true or false, I really don’t know.
It is however very intriguing that they try and build disk shaped crafts, so in my opinion there must be a reason why they did that.
Maybe they try to duplicate a crashed ET craft of some kind, but again true or false, I really don’t know.

My overall personal opinion is that there must be some truth in it all.

I have long been aware of the exisience of most of these photos.

I reasoned that if these machines ever existed and flew there would be film /video evidence of them in flight and/or action.

So I have been searching for video pictures of them in flight, unsuccessfully till now.

OK we all know the power of CGI. However watch this video on youtube:
Antarctica Nazi Base - Masked in Google Earth - Captain Bill

Look carefully at 4.43. What the hell is that?... You will all have to make up your own minds.....