Is there any military or police members here who can answer this question?

reply to post by jackinthebox


I'm not saying that in some circumstances, messed up stuff went down. What I am saying is that the more outlandish the story, the greater the burden of proof though. I've been in the service for quite a while, and have known many vets to include WWII through present day. You learn to see through BS stories, and wannabe types, through experience. If this guy gets off on telling screwed up stories, all that means is that he has some serious issues going on, and a difficulty in separating fantasy from reality. I've yet to hear any serious minded folks proud of, or brag about killing, much less committing war crimes.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Before I start stocking up MREs, and water purification systems, do you have any other sources besides "blacklistednews" that I should check out?
I haven't seen my grocery costs go up 60%, or shortages of food/water/milk at the store. The reason costs have gone up isn't shortages. It's because trucks use petroleum products(i.e. diesel, gas) and oil prices have gone up. That makes the cost of all products/business go up.

Originally posted by capgrup
In response to EnthralledFan;

As I mentioned earlier, to me, anyone who has never served in the military does not have the moralright to protest that same military. If you want to protest something then protest the government.

That's you opinion. The military is part of the government. So if you protest the military, guess what? You are protesting the government.

I might be somewhat of a hothead, but anyone spitting on me or calling me a babykiller will get their a$$ kicked.

If that is the case, I hope you get what you deserve, legally.

As far as the person you mentioned flying around in a helicopter as a drunk doorgunner seems to be somewhat off. The U.S. lost somewhere around 5000+ helicopters in Vietnam and I serously doubt they would let some drunks go on a joyride. As far as his purple heart, you can get them at any military surplus store.

Gee, do ya think that they might have lost a few helicopters because there were people flying them drunk? I do. I heard it from the horses mouth. I think he would be offended at your suggestion that he bought a purple heart and did not earn it.

As my father taught me (and he did 2 and a half years in Veitnam), the people who openly brag about their "combat tours" were probably not in the $hit.

Well, good for you Dad. This guy was there off and on for more than a decade.

And not to put to fine a point on your hatred of the military. If it wasn't for the sacrifice of this country's Armed Forces, I highly doubt you would be allowed to type this crap.

I never said I hated the military. I greatly appreciate people putting their lives on the line for me by fighting enemies. American people are not their enemies. We pay for their services. I don't think enough of our tax dollars go towards paying their salaries, as a matter of fact. I think they all need a raise. I just don't agree that anyone in the military has a right to turn their guns on people who pay their salaries, for things like being spit at. As far as name calling goes? You can either chose to ignore that, or engage yourself, it's up to you. Just be ready to face the consequences of your actions. People who punch somebody over name calling in everyday life can end up in jail for physical assault. I never heard of anyone ending up in jail for calling somebody a name.

reply to post by BlueRaja

Before I start stocking up MREs, and water purification systems, do you have any other sources besides "blacklistednews" that I should check out?

Here is the other source you requested. Some people consider the BBC to be an impeccible news source.







[edit on 2/26/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by BlueRaja

I've yet to hear any serious minded folks proud of, or brag about killing, much less committing war crimes.

I have heard plenty of bragging. This does not mean that the bragging is not part of a coping mechanism, but it is not exclusive to simple-minded folks. Killing and bragging about it are a part of war. It might be shocking to civilian sensitivities, but soldiers aren't carrying a weapon for show. What civilians fail to understand, is that they let the dogs off the leash. The Dogs of War will do what they do. There is a paradox which exists between sugar-coated home time, and the harsh realities of base human instincts in combat. Trying to reconcile this paradox is a soldier's nightmare. Is it fun to kill? Sure. But it is not something most people would choose to do, even if they brag about it.

My main concern in all of this, is that it may not actually be the people who let the Dogs loose the next time, but a government that pretends to still represent the people. If a soldier is led to believe that a segment of the domestic population is a threat, I have no doubt that many will engage. I am also sure there will be some who have a moment of clarity and realize what the hell is actually happening. But what do they do then? Play along, or die?

BlueRaja. I am not interested in sugar-coating the truth. A soldier does their job, and it doesn't always fit into clear right and wrong as people would like to think.



[edit on 2/26/0808 by jackinthebox]

[edit on 2/26/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


There's a big difference in a coping mechanism, or even talking in a joking manner about taking out terrorists, insurgents, or whatever term you want to use, that's trying to kill you or your buddy, and bragging about getting drunk and killing women and children. I understand that soldiers may have a morbid sense of humor, just like doctors, firemen, paramedics, cops, or anyone else that deals with death/injuries. Even still, bragging about killing women and children in a serious way, goes over the line even by our standards of humor. My inclination is to believe this individual is more likely to be full of it/have other mental issues, than to have actually done what he claimed. Perhaps he's taking some factual things, and greatly embellishing them for whatever reason. I just don't buy into the soldiers all being crazed killers mentality that some would try to have us believe.


As for the other story- where exactly did the BBC say that food prices had gone up 60%? In the USA?

reply to post by BlueRaja

I just don't buy into the soldiers all being crazed killers mentality that some would try to have us believe.

I agree with you there. As far as the story about the "general" goes, I say it is actually quite possible, but not the norm. People snap, and combat conditions can certainly get people to that point. But even soldiers who really love their job and what they do, are not without morals, honor, and everything else that seperates humans from the animal kingdom.

As for the other story- where exactly did the BBC say that food prices had gone up 60%? In the USA?

No, it was global average for industrialized nations I believe.

reply to post by rcwj75


Excellent, you are a true patriot my friend!! I will sleep better tonight knowing that there are people like you out there!!

I have friends that are in the Army that are like you. Unfortunately I have some friends in the National Guard that I'm certain would not have a clue what was going on, and do as they were told.

reply to post by downtown436


Thank you for the kind words, and I know many many more people have the same feelings I do. I truly hope the day/time never comes...but the slope we as a nation are on is very steap, and getting quite slippery as time goes on.

reply to post by rcwj75


I'll tell you one thing, I'm more worried about what the cops are doing these days than what the soldiers are doing. I believe you said you are law-enforcement as well. Any thoughts in comparison?



[edit on 2/26/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
I'll tell you one thing, I'm more worried about what the cops are doing these days than what the soldiers are doing. I believe you said you are law-enforcement as well. Any thoughts in comparison?

Yes I am currently a LEO full time for almost 6 years now. So here is my answer to your question JITB.

As a cop "marshal law" is not a subject that is being taught in the academies, or even at any update training. We do not talk about it, it is never brought up. I have friends nationwide in this field and they agree that no Police Department or Sheriffs Office really thinks about/trains for this kind of event, for a reason. Now, with that being said I will say this.

Soldiers (having been one) are more likely to turn before law enforcement. Why? In your day to day job as an LEO you deal with BS most of the time for 8, 10, or 12 hour shifts. By the end of the day your tired, sick of it all and just want to go home....eat, drink, see the family, hang out with friends, etc....leave the job behind and be NORMAL again, doing normal things just like everyone else. Soldiers on the other hand live, train, eat, sleep, poop and socialize in that element 24/7. The life of a soldier is that..a soldier. The life of an LEO is an LEO for his/her shift...then back to being whoever it is they are.

My point by saying that is, if the government decided to impliment marshal law for a takeover of the US population and total domination...LEO's will be more apt to think like a normal violated citizen and be more pissed then a soldier. If the LEO (and even soldier) has good common sence they will know better then to allow their "leaders" to give orders that will destroy not only american citizens but his/her own family as well.

To me the key is knowledge. These days young troops and LEO's have NO basic knowledge of the government, how it works, the crap they pull, and how DIRTY they are. They only see the money, the training, the skills, the fun, the travel, the ideals of honor, etc. What makes a great soldier and LEO is one that understands his role. BUT...also understand the true animal he works for. If he/she understands this is a great country to serve and protect, but that it's because of them, and us as a people that we even exsist..NOT THE GOVERNMENT they should be able to make the appropriate choice if ever faced with it.

Now if you were implying this towards LEO's because you feel some officers/deputies abuse their power, or are to rough when making arrests...that is a whole new subject...and I personally don't think they go together. A criminal who runs from a cop and when caught gets his butt whooped is not the same as the government ordering the round up of millions of americans to lock in pens and the officer following through with it...

reply to post by rcwj75


i totally agree with you rcw.
some people just have the mentality to be bad and abuse their power and get what they want- you can't trust anyone
one fire i was on it was a house with a bunch of college girls and 1 had a bag of weed and a few dollars on her dresser. i hid it for her because i wasn't sure if someone would steal it or not.you can't trust anyone anymore
and rcw if it ever came down to it i would hope you live close to me- i would definitely want you on my side

reply to post by rcwj75


An intersting an genuine analyses. I arrive at a different conclusion though.

"Martial law" is not being taught, because it is already being implemented. I think civilians are more aware of it than those who are working in the field, because the deterioration of rights makes the job easier. And not just the legal deterioration of rights, but a court system that turns a blind eye to abusive and agressive tactics as well, that go beyond the changes made in the past few years. It a sort of "frog in the pot on the stove" scenario.

On the other hand, if you deploy troops into an area, they know full well the gravity of the action. It is sudden and drastic action, with ramifications to be considered. Whereas in LE, you just do your shift and go home, like you said. You are more likely to welcome measures to make your job easier, than to question them, whereas the soldier may question why they are even there in the first place.

I'll tell you one thing, if I worked down in the city, I would have no part of subway bag searches. "Legal" or not, it is un-American and against the Constitution, no matter what some judge sais.

I turned in my shield last Summer, and I don't think I'll be going back. There are too many lines being crossed these days, that I want no part of anymore.

Originally posted by rcwj75

Soldiers (having been one) are more likely to turn before law enforcement. Why? In your day to day job as an LEO you deal with BS most of the time for 8, 10, or 12 hour shifts. By the end of the day your tired, sick of it all and just want to go home....eat, drink, see the family, hang out with friends, etc....leave the job behind and be NORMAL again, doing normal things just like everyone else. Soldiers on the other hand live, train, eat, sleep, poop and socialize in that element 24/7. The life of a soldier is that..a soldier. The life of an LEO is an LEO for his/her shift...then back to being whoever it is they are.

As a soldier, when I go home at night, I like to do normal stuff(i.e. hang out with friends/family/watch tv/go to a pub/etc...). I don't see any difference between us and folks in the LEO profession. Cops are expected to act professionally off duty, just like soldiers are expected to maintain military bearing at all times too.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by BlueRaja

 

I just don't buy into the soldiers all being crazed killers mentality that some would try to have us believe.

I agree with you there. As far as the story about the "general" goes, I say it is actually quite possible, but not the norm. People snap, and combat conditions can certainly get people to that point. But even soldiers who really love their job and what they do, are not without morals, honor, and everything else that seperates humans from the animal kingdom.

As for the other story- where exactly did the BBC say that food prices had gone up 60%? In the USA?

No, it was global average for industrialized nations I believe.

Soldiers can snap. My question was whether it was likely that an entire aircrew to include pilots(commissioned officers- not draftees), were snapped to the point of getting drunk, getting to a helicopter without anyone else around noticing/caring, flying around without any kind of coordination/flight plan, shooting up women/children for fun, and then getting back to base with nobody the wiser.

As for the stat for world wide prices- perhaps somewhere those costs have been realized by the consumer, but to say that in first world countries, there's an imminent danger of food riots is perhaps a bit premature.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
As a soldier, when I go home at night, I like to do normal stuff(i.e. hang out with friends/family/watch tv/go to a pub/etc...). I don't see any difference between us and folks in the LEO profession. Cops are expected to act professionally off duty, just like soldiers are expected to maintain military bearing at all times too.

Of course we as soldiers like to do normal stuff...my point Blue is that when your an active duty soldier..you don't "go home", you go to the barracks, or on base housing, or off base with baq/bah etc....but never HOME HOME. You know what I mean blue? The atmosphere never really sways away from MILITARY life.

Thats why I said having been a soldier and now a LEO...you not only feel the difference...you live it. It's just my opinion, and hopefully if the government ever gives such an order, or it starts heading down that road...the soldiers and LEO's will see it, understand it, and point he weapons in the right direction.