Christian Right's Emerging Deadly Worldview: Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I'm not sure I agree with you for you want to suggest all extremism is the same. Your point that Christian extremism is not as successful is misleading for the reason it is not as successful is because it is not as extreme, and so the Christian extremist is unwilling to go the same length that a Muslim extremist is willing to go.

You figured that out too.

Yeah and that isn't the only thing he keeps leading the dialogue with an OBVIOUS bias against "Christian" extremism. I don't know that I have seen any Christian extremists. What exactly constitutes a extremists Presbyterian or extremist lutheran. He keeps pressing the issue justifying it with "Christian extremism exists"

Ok?? then they agree that extremism in anything is bad.

So much for extreme sports.

Budski made a mistake in one of his posts that make ALL his posts incredulous indicative of a serious lack in his objectivity.

He gave himself away when he said "as long as religion exists extremist religions will exist. So this isn't about dealing with extremist religions and this faith specific hate minded logical fallacy is patent Sam Harris passive aggressive bigotry. This is an exercise in circumloqution where Budski is selectively deaf, wearing tunnel vision blinders.

When you assume that to deal with this "Xtreme type", must see the other "type" as the reason the extreme type will always exist, then conventional wisdom suggests that to eliminate one you must eliminate all subsets of it whether moderate, liberal, re-formed, fundamentalist, any label you choose.

I am just wondering if that is where he is going with this

- Con

I'm not going anywhere with anything - except to stick to the subject matter of the OP.

To constantly suggest that I am anti-christian is inaccurate.

To suggest that there is no extremism in christianity is a lie.

You might do better to address the issue at hand instead of trying to defend your religion.

Not all christians are extremist, just the same that not all muslims are - but they DO exist.

This rather basic fact is the root of the topic here - NOT my beliefs or anyone else's.

Stick to the subject and less of the lies and smear tactics please - we've already been through this.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Perhaps - or perhaps the authorities are just better at nipping home-grown extremism in the bud.

There's also the question of recruitment - there is perhaps, less room for discontent on the same scale as other forms of extremism, due to societal factors such as education, and the fact that there is (supposed) separation of church and state.

There's no doubt that extremism exists in certain groups who call themselves christians, and that it doesn't carry the same threat of other forms of extremism - but I maintain that the threat exists, it's real, and it should be a cause for concern.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Yeah and that isn't the only thing he keeps leading the dialogue with an OBVIOUS bias against "Christian" extremism. I don't know that I have seen any Christian extremists. What exactly constitutes a extremists Presbyterian or extremist lutheran. He keeps pressing the issue justifying it with "Christian extremism exists"

I think we need to define Christian extremeism for I too have not seen it, and I'm not sure what it would be either. Does anyone have examples of it and then we can compare it to other extremeist groups to just see how they relate.

To say just look at Bush...is a cheap way out for we are not attacking a religious group in this war against terror. If you want to blame it on something you would blame it on America’s ideology that is based on democracy.

Also is there any religion that gives more to the world in aid than the Christians or even gives anything as a religious org? This is something to look at too in what good does a religion spread across the world in aid.

As you all can see this has many different parts and I would say the world is better off with Christians in it and I cannot say that for other religions.


[edit on 17-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


This thread might be a good place to start regarding what an extremist group is.

Now admittedly, these people are spreading hate - but isn't that where violence stems from?

Originally posted by budski
There's no doubt that extremism exists in certain groups who call themselves christians, and that it doesn't carry the same threat of other forms of extremism - but I maintain that the threat exists, it's real, and it should be a cause for concern.

You are right, but concern for who? When we look at the branch Davidians in Waco we can say they were an extreme Christian group. The concern here is very localized though and this is a very key point in all this. The two biggest issues are size and area of affect these extremist groups have.

I can randomly pick one group from hundreds (thousands?) of Muslim extremist groups. A typical one is lead by a cleric and he has a few thousand well armed followers that would not only fight in a second on his call but would strap a bomb to their chest on his word for religion. This is also a global problem, and as we see across countries throughout the world and not just with America these extremist acts happen all the time.

Let’s get right down to the issue at hand, we call it “The War Against Terror” but this is used to only be politically correct for it should really read “The War Against Muslim Extremist Groups”.


[edit on 17-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by budski
This thread might be a good place to start regarding what an extremist group is.

Now admittedly, these people are spreading hate - but isn't that where violence stems from?

Why? When we look at "Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth" we must first determine if Christians would be willing to do this and if Christians did kill Muslims whether it would be an extremist offensive act or one of self defense.

My point in my last few posts is Christians do not have extremism as we see in the Muslim world to actually do this, and with the extremism that the Muslims are pouring forth around the world the Christians will be in a defensive struggle and that my friend does not make Christians extremist too.


[edit on 17-2-2008 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


It makes the group of "christians" in the OP extremist - and should we not also consider that muslim extremists also view theirs as a defensive war?

After all, they didn't invade our countries, we invaded theirs.

Originally posted by budski
Should we not also consider that muslim extremists also view theirs as a defensive war?

After all, they didn't invade our countries, we invaded theirs.

So Muslim extremism is only about Iraq and that is where it all started? Also when you look at Iraq the Americans are actually somewhat outside the extremism going on over there, or are you thinking that the removal of Saddam was a cause to the extremism we see.

How about all the extremism we see around the world that has nothing to do with Americans. I just do not see this with Christians, and I do not see the level of what Muslim extremism is willing to go also with Christians.

So with that said do you believe Christians can try to do what the OP’s post is about, and do you feel Muslim extremism is a defensive move, or a move of intolerance?

I sense some anger in this thread, and it is creating a disturbance in the Force.

Let's discuss the subject and leave the name calling aside.

Focus on the topic.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

It makes the group of "christians" in the OP extremist - and should we not also consider that muslim extremists also view theirs as a defensive war?

After all, they didn't invade our countries, we invaded theirs.

Yeah and we pretty much did the same thing here with the American indian

Just get to the point budski then you can tell us just what are you getting at. If all you want to do is say Christian extremists exist SO WHAT. NOW WHAT?

Guess you'll just have to wait till they break the law

I'd appreciate you get the facts about the waco story. If you think the "Davidians" and their polygamy participating quasi God Prophet were Christians you are wrong.


- Con





[edit on 18-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by NGC2736
I sense some anger in this thread, and it is creating a disturbance in the Force.

Let's discuss the subject and leave the name calling aside.

Focus on the topic.

I just wish he would get to the point,, if there is one.

- Con

reply to post by Xtrozero


The trick is, the extremist Christians tend to live in places where they have options to exercise. Put a bunch of extremist Christians into the economic or political situations found in the Middle East, and you'll see sparks shoot. We can already see it in places like Tripura, or in some parts of America, even. The White Supremacist movements in various parts of the world are often at least partially founded on the idea that they are doing "god's work"

It's not religion, so much as it is social conditons. If it were religion, EVERYONE would be an extremist.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You know as well as I do that this goes back a LOT further than iraq - the west has been messing around in the region for centuries, then when they got the oil, we really started playing the power/control games.

Conspiriology
I've tried to remain polite despite all your provocation and rudeness - if it carries on I'm just sticking you on ignore.
There's no reason to be less than polite, it's just a thread even if it does somehow get on your nerves.
We've had lies, editting of posts and intolerance from you - why not try rational discussion?
I find it works a lot better than ranting

I've also made my point on more than one occasion - the fact that you don't LIKE that point is irrelevant to me.

[edit on 18/2/2008 by budski]

Originally posted by budski


To constantly suggest that I am anti-christian is inaccurate.

Budski, YOU are the one that suggested the only solution to one Christian sect is to eliminate both.

You are the one that keeps turning this subject into an indefinte number of hoops one has to jump through with each post we make you have a contrary opinion ending always with an open end question or reiterating the central message ie;, that Christian extremism exists and again I say,, Ok so now what? It exists so what is your point?

To suggest that there is no extremism in christianity is a lie.

No it isn't a lie budski but If you are that damned determined to associate a bad thing about the Christian religion, then have at it. That still doesn't mean that I have seen this happen. Frankly Ill admit it IS possible but it would most definatly be an anamoly among what is otherwise the Religion we owe our very American existence to. If you want to invalidate the millions of Christians who have sacrificed in the American experiment then please do, it would be the strongest indication of just how big a waste of time it is to continue is such a single minded Christian specific bigotry where ther only intention is to continue suggesting their are Christian extremists as you have ONCE AGAIN and ONCE AGAIN I will says

SO WHAT! WHAT ABOUT IT????????????????????????????????????

You might do better to address the issue at hand instead of trying to defend your religion.

Did you fall down and bump your head?? LAST TIME I SAY IT BUDSKI

I thought it was "Our" Religion? So come clean here Budski,, were you lieing about that ? First of all Ill defend my religion especially when someone is intent on attaching the name of it to extremeism then making comparisons of it to Muslim extremists and if you don't like it ,,

TOO BAD.

Not all christians are extremist, just the same that not all muslims are - but they DO exist.

OMG sigh,,,,,,,,, will "GET IT" when I say SO WHAT!!!!!!!!!!

This rather basic fact is the root of the topic here - NOT my beliefs or anyone else's.

WHAT! Well it sure the hell better be somebodys belief because you have sure said enough but Ill agree it isn't my belief nor is it anyone elses.

Stick to the subject and less of the lies and smear tactics please - we've already been through this.

Budski,, you are impossible,, ansolutley impossible

BTW Don't call me a liar and don't bother with making your point.

It is painfully obvious that the only point to this whole thread is their is none. The only thing I regret is I can't recover the time I wasted,,

on it and

you



[edit on 18-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by budski

.
I've tried to remain polite despite all your provocation and rudeness - if it carries on I'm just sticking you on ignore

You show me where the provoke is where you aren't trying peoples patience or accusing them of lies and editing posts.

I cant edit your post without your password and if anyone has lied YOU HAVE AND CONTINUE TO DO SO.

We've had lies, editting of posts and intolerance from you - why not try rational discussion?

How about this budski,, how about you contribute to the discussion rather then hide behind a position of neutrality in one post then coming back with a history of Iraq when the post just before it you admit you don't have a position on the matter.

This isn't an attempt to be rude here guy THIS IS A LEGITIMATE POSITION I TAKE WITH YOU AS WITH EACH POST YOU SEEM TO CONTINUE TELLING ME HOW AWEFUL I AM FOR TRYING TO GET YOUR THREAD PAST THE TITLE

Has it not occured to you that this thread as pretty much died because the discussion you keep requesting I stick with is one I guess I have to have with myself as you don't seem to be able to and I already have heard what I got to say.

You can look at my comments any way your little heart desires but you might want to take a look as the complaints aren't ad hom they are valid and legitimate. As a hint to what you might want to acomplish with threads you make in the future.

Simply put, they need more then a sensationalized title

I've also made my point on more than one occasion - the fact that you don't LIKE that point is irrelevant to me.

So I was right,, that's it, the only point to this whole thing was that you wanted to let people know that Christian extremism exists.

Ill do you the favor Budski and I will put YOU on ignore.

Like I said,, you are impossible you can waste peoples time you can read their minds and call quotes cherry picking suggest their intention and you can assume you are right while calling people who have never seen a Christian extremist a liar THEN when they finally have had enough and start calling you on it YOU INVALIDATE LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS AS IF AFTER YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM ENOUGH GRIEF

NOW THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO GET UPSET??

Unbelievable








[edit on 18-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Your rants have added nothing,
I have maintained myposition throughout the thread.

You're on ignore,

TTFN

Originally posted by budski
Your rants have added nothing,
I have maintained myposition throughout the thread.



TTFN

You got that right,, my mistake not knowing your intent to NOT have a position WAS your position.

My "rants" as you call them can't add anything when their is nothing to talk about with a broken record that "suggest" extremism as the only point to the thread. The title is as deep as this gets.

You're on ignore,

Thank you, I sure wouldn't want to be tempted in such an exercise in futility getting someone who starts a thread with as melodramatic a title as this just to find out Im on the circumloqution treadmill with Budski again.

- Con

reply to post by Xtrozero


I don't really like picking bits out to answer, but your post has more than one question so I'll have to.
All quotes from yourself:

So Muslim extremism is only about Iraq and that is where it all started? Also when you look at Iraq the Americans are actually somewhat outside the extremism going on over there, or are you thinking that the removal of Saddam was a cause to the extremism we see.

Didn't muslim extremism start a long time before saddams removal?
US and UK foreign policy in the mideast is more to blame than the removal of saddam.
Although I think the war in iraq is illegal, I also think we did the right thing, just for the wrong reasons, and without the mandate of legality according to the international community.

How about all the extremism we see around the world that has nothing to do with Americans. I just do not see this with Christians, and I do not see the level of what Muslim extremism is willing to go also with Christians.

We don't see it with christians for many reasons - societal factors being one of the major reasons.
Take away the wealth, the education and the casual acceptance and I think you'd see a different picture - extremism needs a breeding ground, and some already exist in the christian world, even if it's as minimal as dissatisfaction.
Could this become AS extremist as muslim extremism?
Read N.I.

So with that said do you believe Christians can try to do what the OP’s post is about, and do you feel Muslim extremism is a defensive move, or a move of intolerance?

I think they could TRY - but they wouldn't get very far, as there isn't the popular support for such a programme.
That doesn't mean there might not be in the future, and it's a concern for all, if these people get ANY kind of popular support.

Muslim extremism isn't just down to defense or intolerance, although there have to be certain aspects of both in order to galvanise popular support.

I think when you attack something, it will attack back - and that's the position we have put ourselves in over a long period of time.

Bush said in a recent interview that we are in an idealogical struggle (war?) - I think this is a telling point.
It sums up bush perfectly - trying to mask his real intent, and also is a call for poular support, from allies (nato) and from the public.