Christian Right's Emerging Deadly Worldview: Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth

reply to post by undo


Undo, it's easy to say such things when the situation is relatively calm and stable. But if it weren't then I'm pretty certain that things will degenerate pretty badly.

It's human nature and you can find examples of it from all over the world from all different cultures, race, creed and religion. The first thing out the window is civility.

It's pretty predictable. In fact, the responses I've read in this thread are also pretty predictable. They mirror the responses in threads that criticise certain groups within the Muslim community. You find the same sort of deflection, justification, rationalisation, pointing of fingers and general unwillingness to accept that there is a problem.

Originally posted by Bunch
Im not the kind of poster that try to play with words or infer something by saying another. Extremist in all religions means just that.

Yes there is no denying that most of the terrorism that goes around the world is perpetrated by radical muslims, that doesnt mean all muslim are terrorist.

no, it means terrorists are much more likely to be Islamic and fighing in the furtherance of their interpretation of the Koran, without any sane comparison amongst other religions.

The problem, I find, in this debate (as well as non religious debate) is that people confuse lack of perfection everywhere as an excuse not to comment/debate/focus on an area of particular problem, ie, because all 2 billion (or however many) Christians are not perfect, one must blithely skip over the world wide islamic terrorist, insurgency, oppression issue- this is a silly little stance to take (not that I am inferring it is one you are taking), this is the land of man, and there will never be pefection in anything.

But let me ask you a question, do you believe that Christian principles or Jewish teachings has had any influence on the U.S. and Israel as governments? Especially when it comes to foreign policy, treatment of the Palestinian issue and such.

The US is an explicitly secular country, it may have a largely Christian populace, but to its credit, it has never allowed this to dominate or enter its government, nor does it pursue wars in the name of the Bible or to further spread Christianity.

As regards Israel, I do not know enough about it's form of governance to comment on the religious impact on its system (although, the world's ONLY Jewish nation is bound to have some bearing on that). What I would say is that, while Israel's non Jewish / Arab citizens may not be living ideal lives, Israel still treats them better than Arabs in other surrounding nations, and the Arabs in Israel would not wish to be governed by these states.

One could argue that those actions can be seen also as expressions of religious fanatism.

Again, I don't see religious fanatacism, certainly in the US example, in governance and foreign policy

But if it weren't then I'm pretty certain that things will degenerate pretty badly.

Well, that may be true for some, but if you're a diehard believer in not causing other people physical harm... I've been dead once already, anyway. And that time, I died a very slow and painful death (I went slowly insane from infection in my brain, over the course of about 7 months). Machines kept me alive (does a vader impression). Then TADA, I was woke up by my sister. It was very cool. (The waking up part, not the dying part). I was completely convinced at the time (insanity does that to ya), that other people were deliberately causing me this pain. Had I the tendency to be that kind of violent (I like playing video games but I realize they are just games), somebody woulda got seriously hurt. Thankfully, I was spared the violence of insanity, just the craziness.

no, it means terrorists are much more likely to be Islamic and fighing in the furtherance of their interpretation of the Koran, without any sane comparison amongst other religions.

Are you sure this is the problem? To me it seems like bad press, internally and/or externally, is causing some of the problem. What if they are being told by the leaders they respect, that the christian and jewish world is trying to wipe them off the face of the earth? All they would have to do is look around to be somewhat convinced there was validity to that concept.

Alternatively, I can see the israelis being a bit freaked about the fact they only want to have that little strip of land in an ocean of their brothers vast real estate, and still having to worry that it might be nuked into oblivion at any time.

All sides of this look rather dismal. That's the scary part if you ask me.

At one time evangelic Christianity was a the forefront of positive social change, abolition comes to mind as does civil rights among others. Unfortunately the extremists, as in Islam, shout the loudest and as such are the ones most often heard these days. It doesn't mean they are right, God knows, they just have a good set of lungs.

Still extremists give religion (and political affiliation) a bad name.

These people are no where near Christ.

So, a thread about an extremist group leads to the following:
Lies,
Hate,
self-protection,
irrational fear,
paranoia,
racism,
prejudice,

and much more.

Typically, most posters who have expressed these feelings have failed to do one very important thing - read the OP and understand the context of the commentary with regards to the story.

My opening post:

Originally posted by budski


It seems that extremists also exist in the "christian" world.

The casual advocacy of violence and hate filled propaganda needs to stop - from both sides.

But while it is in bushes interests for this to continue, doubtless that is what will happen.

This kind of thing sickens me - an extremist is an extremist, regardless of whose "side" they are on.

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Now just where does this mention ALL christians?

Nowhere.

It does mention Bush in the context of a conspiracy - but that man is no more a christian than OBL is a true muslim.
They are both extremists.

Extremism is wrong.

Not christianity.
Not Islam.
Not the church of the dancing fairies.

EXTREMISM.
In any form it comes in.

Now just what is so difficult to understand about that?

Instead, people see the word christian, and immediately make an assumption - with no basis in fact or in truth.

The knowing LIES which have been casually tossed around by some during this thread are very puerile - and frankly, I expect better from ATSers.

But, as with any thread which attempts to look at some aspects of people who claim to be of a certain faith, some don't bother with reading or understanding.
They just react - not through knowledge, but through some kind of irrational fear.

Well, here's the news - we're not all out to get you, whatever your faith or denomination of a particular faith - quite frankly, zealots and extremists are something I would rather avoid.

And I see a lot of zealots on this thread, desperately trying to validate themselves and their faith by spouting lies and propaganda.

I've lost count of the number of ignorant lies that have been told during this thread, and I find the lies quite disgusting - and they usually come from people who don't bother to read the OP and the article therein.

If a persons faith is strong, they have no need to defend it or to justify it.

I believe that there is a conspiracy of extremism in the world, and has been one for hundreds if not thousands of years.

The way to defeat extremism comes in many forms - but the first step is understanding their views and how they intend to go about succeeding in their goals.
This goes for extremists of any ilk.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Really? Phocomelia syndrome had about 6,000 cases in West Germany due to use of the drug Contergam (thalidomide, prescribed as a sedative / hypnotic and cure for morning sickness). Trouble is, this was in 1957, and were the first cases of the condition recorded in Germany. Now, I'm not calling you a liar, but it does seem very strange, especially considering he...

Well I don't know that much about it and have never seen anyone else with that kind of birth defect but my grandfather.

I would be very interested in how a fellow with this condition could be a mechanic. What sort of machinery did he operate on? I do auto work for a living, so I've got some professional curiosity here, too.

Yeah but you know,, I have seen my grandfather take a swiss watch apart and put it back together again. He worked on all the motorcycles they had with the sidecars. He wasn't in the military he worked with them teaching them what he did and ran some shop they had. I seen lots of old black and white photos of him and he even used to ride the motorcycles with his arms n hands like they were. Later he started working on the airplanes but he liked the motorcycles best. When I was a kid he had the motorcycle he used to ride with the sidecar in his garage. It was covered with dust and spider webs. When he died, my Dad got that old bike, it is called "Indian" . I guess it was a pretty good bike in its day.

Thank you, but I think I'll take the reams of documented information about Hitler and his party compiled by numerous people who were there, studious researchers of later generations, etc, over your grandfather.

Understand

Do, or do not. There is no try.

Well if we could "Do" without fail we wouldn't have need of a savior now would we.

reply to post by Xtrozero


That is just ignorant. First women don't go hoping and skipping to the abortion clinic. It's a horrific experience that some women find themselves in because they see no other choice. No one is going to get pregnant just to sell a fetus. That is the stupidest and most sexist thing I have ever heard.

That is just ignorant. First women don't go hoping and skipping to the abortion clinic. It's a horrific experience that some women find themselves in because they see no other choice. No one is going to get pregnant just to sell a fetus. That is the stupidest and most sexist thing I have ever heard.

what, "sexist", even if a woman says it?

[edit on 13-2-2008 by blueorder]

reply to post by blueorder



It doesn't matter who says it. It is still ignorant of the facts. Women don't have abortions for fun. And the Right has managed to paint it in that light somehow. That is BS.

Originally posted by budski

Now just where does this mention ALL christians?

Nowhere.

Well not exactly,, you use the word Religion Christianity is a religion. Then you make it guilty by association saying as long as it exists blah blah blah

As long as organised religion exists, extremism will exist, - Budski

Yeah I see Atheists do that all the time

Well, here's the news - we're not all out to get you,

then you say

whatever your faith or denomination of a particular faith - quite frankly, zealots and extremists are something I would rather avoid.

Really?? Ill remember that for later

But, as with any thread which attempts to look at some aspects of people who claim to be of a certain faith, some don't bother with reading or understanding. They just react - not through knowledge, but through some kind of irrational fear.

Gee lets see who that was,,


Here are the reasons for paranoia and lies and all the things this thread you created for "discussion" purposes and all the hate and paranoia is about the following Religious Group.

Most certainly yes... it's not about what they want to do and how, but that they want to do it at all. In my view Christians of any sort are the most dangerous to humanity today. - flice

I also believe that christianity is the most dangerous
thing in our world. the christian movement have killed more people
than any other religion through out history. - Maya432

Christians on ATS can only be described as outdated at best and downright evil at worst. - freeborn

Further proof that organised religion is the bane of mankind and continues to be the most restraining force in our development as a species.
they kill each other, and everyone else in the process. - whitewash


reports that the Christian radical right basically has a lock on the Air Force Academy, and that in the USAF you either go along with their agenda, keep your mouth shut, or kiss your career goodbye. Good to know our nuclear deterrent is in the hands of fanatics, eh? the Christian far right actually has the tools at their disposal to commit mass murder on a truly "biblical" scale - X-Motex

This one is hilarious because all this guys has done is talk smack about Christians

I'm not anti-christian or anti-islam, re-read my posts. - Freeborn

That's just it Freeborn,, I DID read em and you got issues with Christianity plane and simple.

Extremists rarely think their views are extreme - they think others are wrong or less devout. - Budski

Now right after you explained this what does the freecorn say lol

The one thing that has genuinely suprised me is the complete refusal of some people to admit that Christian extremists even exist despite the evidence. These people have taken the view that any mention of Christian extremism is an attack on Christianity as a whole - Freeborn

I find the lies quite disgusting - .

mmmmm

Personally, I look upon this as bashing extremists - and I also think that is a right and proper thing to do -. Budski

Gee bud,, didn't you say you wanted to avoid them and didn't you say "no one is out to get you" This entire thread was meant to provoke discord yet you insist on giving out reprisals for lies and paranoia.

Nothing like an Atheist agent provocateur to stir things up


Yeah,, lies disgust you,,

but only when not

your own

- Con

Originally posted by projectvxn
It doesn't matter who says it. It is still ignorant of the facts. Women don't have abortions for fun. And the Right has managed to paint it in that light somehow. That is BS.

Yeah?? mmmm Maybe it is because IT AIN'T NO PICNIC FOR THE BABY EITHER. But the left humanist likes to paint it that way

- Con

Originally posted by projectvxn

It doesn't matter who says it. It is still ignorant of the facts. Women don't have abortions for fun. And the Right has managed to paint it in that light somehow. That is BS.

is it "sexist" if a woman says it.

Anways, regardless of how horrific it is for the woman, 200,000 abortions were carried out in Britain last year, that is a horrific figure and shows how life is increasingly being taken more lightly as the years progress- you can dress it up in cotton wool if you want.

Life is about choice and consequences and not about painting everyone as a victim

reply to post by blueorder


You're right, it is about choice. And I would never paint anything to spin the facts out of context. But you have to understand that these are, in fact, personal choices. We can argue morality all day long. And I'm not gonna. If you wanna talk about the lack of respect for life...That goes world wide, and does not start or end with abortion. There are worse things.

And yes it is sexist even if a woman says it.

Originally posted by projectvxn

You're right, it is about choice. And I would never paint anything to spin the facts out of context. But you have to understand that these are, in fact, personal choices. We can argue morality all day long. And I'm not gonna. If you wanna talk about the lack of respect for life...That goes world wide, and does not start or end with abortion. There are worse things.

And yes it is sexist even if a woman says it.

I dont see how it is sexist at all, we don't all have freedom of choice over our bodies, I cannot walk down the high street nude, I cannot legally commit suicide etc


Unfortunately with abortion there is the full spectrum and Im not saying for some it isn't an agonising choice- for others unfortunately the choice is all too easy

reply to post by Conspiriology


Again, you cherry pick comments to twist and manipulate your pre-conceived opinions.

I have repeatedly stated that I have no problem with Christianity per se but with some EXTREMIST INTERPRETATIONS.

I have also stated that even though I am an agnostic, I know Christ's teachings are not of hatred but of peace, love and tolerance.

Of course you would know that I posted that if you had read the whole thread as you have stated.
Or is it that you conveniently chose to ignore this?

So which is it?
Ignorance or lying to twist things?

You have no credability at all and the fact that you resort to personal insults and blatant manipulation to further your own personal brand of bigotry nullifies all of your postings.

I have the utmost regard and respect for countless Christians, it just happens that I disagree with them on matters of faith.
I don't doubt their sincerity.
The vast majority are well intentioned.
A very small minority, the extremists, follow a belief system that bears no resemblance to Christ's teachings.
That is what I, and others, have consistently posted.

That you take this to be an attack on Christianity as whole and can not enter into a reasonable arguement without resorting to insults displays a belief that borders on fanatacism.
Dangerous.

Originally posted by blueorder


I dont see how it is sexist at all, we don't all have freedom of choice over our bodies, I cannot walk down the high street nude, I cannot legally commit suicide etc

Unfortunately with abortion there is the full spectrum and Im not saying for some it isn't an agonising choice- for others unfortunately the choice is all too easy

Thats right for more then just some and this isn't sexist, this is just the grim reality.

For the first time in human history the human female accepts to get pregnant with the prior meditated intention of giving away her child. And since this is usually done for money
www.islamset.com...

I would think selling an unborn baby while still a fetus is just as likely.


- Con

reply to post by Conspiriology


Did I ever say that I'm an atheist?

No - and in fact, I'm not.

I am a christian who belongs to no denomination - seeking my own spirituality without the interference of organised religion or people who interpret the bible to suit theor own ends.

Cherrypick all you want - the more discerning members will see right through you.

Christian extremists are as much fair game as any other type of extremist.

Originally posted by Freeborn

Again, you cherry pick comments to twist and manipulate your pre-conceived opinions.

Yeah I figure it is easier to just highlight the most incriminating data rather then have you read the whole thing over again.

You say I have no credibility and I have no proof LOL

Every post you make proves my point smart guy the other posts that DON'T say "extremists" but simply Christianity proves my point smart guy

I have been reading this thread from the very begining where many of those quotes I got were from the first and second pages smart guy.

That you take this to be an attack on Christianity as whole and can not enter into a reasonable arguement without resorting to insults displays a belief that borders on fanatacism.

Hey,, smart guy,, YOU CALLED ME the conceited bigot, among other things

You have no credability at all and the fact that you resort to personal insults and blatant manipulation to further your own personal brand of bigotry nullifies all of your postings.

Well please,, point it out. Show me one of the quotes I used from this thread where that person didn't actually say it.

I am not furthering any bigotry I am pointing it out and it is YOU that engage in it.

Sorry to break it you son,,

It's you

- Con

reply to post by Conspiriology


Wow, how is this for manipulating the truth to portray a message NOT as it was intended.

You posted:

Christians on ATS can only be described as outdated at best and downright evil at worst. - freeborn

The full paragraph from which you heavily edited the quote actually states:

Indeed, some of the opinions expressed by so called Christians on ATS can only be described as outdated at best and downright evil at worst. (Fortunately only by a minority).
I honestly thought that Christianity of this kind had been left behind in the past.

The full quotation shows the context it was intended to convey;
SOME Christians, not all, and only a minority.
I also expressed the opinion that I thought Christianity had progressed, (From the Dark Ages, The Spanish Inquisition, The Crusades etc).

You have deliberately edited a post in an attempt to blacken the name of a fellow ATS member to further your own agenda of portraying ALL atheists and agnostics as evil wrong doers who are all conspiring to "overthrow" Christianity.

An excercise in manipulation straight out of the Josef Goebells School Of Propaganda.

At no point during this thread have I, or the OP, ever stated that ALL Christians are evil extremists yet your continued insistence that we are part of some plot to discredit Christianity is quite bizzare.

You freely admit to cherry picking your quotes in an attempt to mislead people.

I am honestly unable to post anything else in response for fear of contravening T&C and posting an outright personal insult, something I really try not to do, (though sometimes fail).

For the first time on ATS I am tempted to use the ignore button, and that is very, very sad.