Corruption of Dalai Lama

reply to post by die_another_day


umm, this is what your profile says

About Me

Topics I Like
Anything other than religion because people get so stubborn.
Topics I Dislike
Religion

Which, of course, is totally cool, but what I don't get is why you would start this thread having the point of view that you do unless you are just trying to get a knee-jerk reaction from people. Personally, I don't care much for a couple of major religions, but I don't feel the need to attack other people's faith or belief systems just because its something that I don't find to work for me.

reply to post by HellcatEmi


This is not about religion, this is about politics and realities.
I never said anything bad about Buddhism, it's just about the Dalai.

I agree with the idea of controversies having 2 sides. But I am sharing one side and I am focusing on my perspective.

Originally posted by die_another_day
I hereby declare that one should not expect much from my thoughts.

The Dalai is a nice guy. Like a lot of leaders, he can't control everything done in his name, or by his followers. Lama luxury is a problematic thing, as is mullah luxury, papal luxury, political luxury etc. How leaders deal with it varies. There was only one Gandhi worth a damn, and only one Mother Theresa. As a veteran of this milieu I can tell you that his followers would make such a fuss if he didn't accept the proffered limo rides etc., that he wouldn't be able to do his job.

As far as all the damage he does to China's relations with other countries, don't believe he is fooling them all into acting against their interests. They know very well what they are doing and what is in it for them. There are very few fools at that level.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by die_another_day


I think that is a bit simplistic. Controversies always have more than two sides. The two sides to every arguement idea forces one to compromise the truth in order to come to an agreement that closest mirrors one own arguement. For instance the false left vs. right paradigm pits people against one another instead of focusing on the commonalities between the involved parties. Similarly, one could think of GW Bush and the statement "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists". The truth is the truth and it cannot be compromised. There can be winning and losing sides of an arguement but one cannot say that the winners are necessarily 100% holders of the truth of the situation.

reply to post by die_another_day


You have given unsubstantiated Chinese propagand to instigate an argument. I can find plenty of credible sources to show otherwise. So what else do you have?


www.cbc.ca...

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by die_another_day

 

You have given unsubstantiated Chinese propagand to instigate an argument. I can find plenty of credible sources to show otherwise. So what else do you have?


www.cbc.ca...

What else do I have...Logic?

Why is the Dalai Lama so involved in politics? Why can't he just be a preacher and make people happy? He's more worried about his own reputaion and power than the welfare of Tibetans.

From this article, it is apparent that the Dalai is anti-homosexuality.

For example, the Dalai Lama explicitly condemns homosexuality, as well as all oral and anal sex. His stand is close to that of Pope John Paul II, something his Western followers find embarrassing and prefer to ignore. His American publisher even asked him to remove the injunctions against homosexuality from his book, "Ethics for the New Millennium," for fear they would offend American readers, and the Dalai Lama acquiesced.

query.nytimes.com...

Apparently he supported attacking Iraq. He wanted to kill off the terrorists, but how does anyone know that Osama was in Iraq?

The Dalai Lama said Wednesday that the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan may have been justified to win a larger peace, but that is it too soon to judge whether the Iraq war was warranted.

"I think history will tell," he said in an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, just after he met with President Bush.

query.nytimes.com...


Read this website, I don't think that the Chinese made it.
www.badkarmalama.com...



This is a message that he created almost immediately after he said that the Iraq war is justified:
www.tibet.com...

reply to post by die_another_day


Oh My!!!

You sure have been digging. The NY Times Opinion peice talks of how we Westerners have simplified a very profound Man attempting to gain back his home land. Did you understand the context of the article?

Norm Phelps is a great guy trying to do what he thinks is best for the cause of animal rights. His Website is based on an open letter written to the Dalai Lama in 2007. So what? Not all Buddhists are vegetarian, it is something they strive toward. www.kmspks.org...

The Dalai Lamas statement for peace at the Tibet link only reveals his feelings. As far as his justifying the war in Afghanatan, I'm pretty sure most of the world went along with that. Even the Dalai Lama understands radicalism and the need to head it off. Would you have prefered to hear him say just sit back and take whatever the terroists have to throw at you?

The Dalai Lama is a world figure, the only one at the moment that I believe to have any common sense.

reply to post by die_another_day

Your post has references to people's statements about what the Dalai Lama believes and has said but I don't see any quotations from the Dalai Lama himself, stating these things.

As far as I know the Buddha himself was a meat eater. He died of food poisoning after eating tainted pork.

I haven't read every sutra, or even very many of them but my own experience of Buddhist teaching through many years is that sexual practice and morality is very relaxed by Christian standards.

The Tibetans, as an ethnic group, have a strong prejudice against homosexuality. One Tibetan lady told me once that homosexuality did not exist among Tibetans. I just smiled and said, "Oh, is that so?"

Of course it is not so. I think the Dalai Lama's pronouncements are very often tinged by Tibetan cultural influences which should not be taken too seriously by non-Tibetans. No-one can be all things to all people, not even the Dalai Lama.

The unique thing about the Dalai Lama, and it is the thing that the world as a whole has seized upon, is his effort to bring the option of kindness back into public discourse as being relevant to public policy. That is what the people of the world long to hear from their own politicians. People are tired of being drivien relentlessly to goals set only by the financial bottom line.

Unfortunately, people who appreciate that message press for more and more, expecting the Dalai Lama to produce perfect wisdom on every question. When the wisdom that he does produce deviates from their own views, he is attacked. People don't agree to disagree with him. They take his difference of opinion personally, villify him and insist that he conform to their wisdom.

The Dalai Lama got to be what he is through meditation. Period. To understand him and his views you have to meditate. If you don't want to bother, fine. If you want to disagree with him, fine. If you want to militate against him and force him to come into line with you, that is totalitarianism.

In the political sphere he operates to bring benefit to his people. In the world now. Not the world of medieval Tibet, but the world that we all live in now, as a human family. To the world at large his message is to remind the people of the world of the suffering of the people of Tibet and to remind themselves to bring kindness out the door with them every day, into their daily lives.

If you want to be a vegetarian and have sex with your same sex sweety, that's up to you, he can only state his views. If you want to understand his views, you have to meditate. His views are not for everyone. Some people want a Daddy and are then terribly disappointed when Daddy is not just like them.

So if you were doing something bad, would you admit it when you need help the most? No way. He's been hiding way too much secrets, some I'm pretty sure that we don't even know of.

I just want this man to get out of world politics and stop destroying world relations. If you think that relations with China is unimportant then you are foolish, China's and the US's economy are intertwined, thus one should not piss off the other.

[edit on 2/14/2008 by die_another_day]

reply to post by die_another_day

I think that the core of the Dalai Lama's message is valid and necessary in this world. He is one important vehicle in this world for a rediscovery of kindness as an option. Of course there are others giving us this message, but he is someone who has captured the world's attention. I think it's a tune he should keep on playing as long as people continue to listen.

You seem to see the Dalai Lama as a thorn in China's side and as the rain falling on China's parade. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the Chinese are taking him a little too seriously when they perceive him as a threat? The only threat that he poses to them and their agenda is that he opposes the cultural genocide they are conducting in Tibet.

Maybe you should direct a couple of questions to the Chinese leaders. You should ask them why they feel it necessary to eradicate the Tibetan language in Tibet, when around the world the preservation of indigenous cultures is a big business and a big responsibility. Also why do they interfere with the Tibetan practice of religion, when around the world, even in Russia, religion is practiced to beat the band, with no more than the ordinary problems you have whenever groups of people get together?

What is China's problem? Why is China unable to manage to let people learn their own languages in school and practice their own religions? No one else has a problem managing that.

What is going on in Tibet is the eradication of a culture. The same thing exactly was done in North America to the American Indians. If you observe the situation here, it's all about giant financial settlements, government apologies and feverish attempts to preserve the indigenous culture. There is no reason that whole process has to be part of the future of Tibet in this day and age.

Originally posted by Witness2008
The information and the link you provide is Chineese propaganda.
While putting your theories together you may want to investigate an opposing view. I suggest the book "In Exile From The Land of Snow" by John Avedon, or watch the movie based upon the book called Kundun.

The Chineese over ran Tibet, murdered Monks and Nuns, and instituted a death penalty for anyone found with an image of the Dalai Lama. For over a thousand years Tibetans lived in peace and harmony, there was no slavery but instead practiced compassion for one another.

I couldn't agree more, the author of this thread is ignorant , she doesn't even know Dalai Lama is the most living spiritual personne on our planet, nor does she know about Buddhist religion is based on compassion ? your thread is an insult to the Buddhism
don't you know the Chinese don't recognize the human rights?

Originally posted by die_another_day
I don't think that most Westerners are motivated enough to read about him.
[edit on 2/12/2008 by die_another_day]

you think Westeners are eager to know Allah or Mahomet? you're just an IGNORANT you just spread hatred where there is no need, bad karma

reply to post by die_another_day


Here is a link that will take you to an interview where the Dalai Lama speaks for himself.

He is not just a preacher to bring happiness as one of your posts suggest he do.



www.motherjones.com...

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by die_another_day

 

Here is a link that will take you to an interview where the Dalai Lama speaks for himself.

He is not just a preacher to bring happiness as one of your posts suggest he do.



www.motherjones.com...

I read it already, I already read like 20 articles on him. Both good and bad.
Have you guys ever learned about him, in school? Other than that he's a Buddhist leader and the "reincarnation" from the previous Dalai Lama?
Everything that comes out of his mouth is common sense. No war, and love each other, and live as morally as you can, and cherish your life. He's only saying all of this to boost his reputation in the Western world knowing that he has no hope in the East.
Where is all the happiness???????? I do not feel anything from what he has said. If people here feel so STRONG about him then why not crush China? Oh that's right, you can't fight.
Martin Luther King was fighting for rights, his speeches were actually inspiring and unique. Ghandi was gained supporters for his nonviolent plan and ascetic lifestyle. I do not see any of these characteristics in this "Dalai Lama" according to my sources. This man is a failure, only brainwashing the liberals.

Originally posted by die_another_day
reply to post by HellcatEmi

 

This is not about religion, this is about politics and realities.
I never said anything bad about Buddhism, it's just about the Dalai.

I agree with the idea of controversies having 2 sides. But I am sharing one side and I am focusing on my perspective.

Oh, so now you feel as if you Know His Holiness The Dali Lama to call him the Dali?

And this..."I'm only interested in my own perspectives".

sheesh......

Why don't you form an opinion after you're garnered a modicum of first-hand experience before you pass judgement on this kind man.

Clue: travel to Dharamsala and request an audience with him....THEN decide for yourself if what he speaks is what he practises!

Another clue for U: His Holiness does not have or drive around in a NEW anything.

For the record I am not Buddhist----but I can recognize a spiritual, benevolent being when I see one.

Slandering this man is truly despicapable. Shame on you.



[edit on 15-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

Originally posted by die_another_day

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by die_another_day

 

Here is a link that will take you to an interview where the Dalai Lama speaks for himself.

He is not just a preacher to bring happiness as one of your posts suggest he do.



www.motherjones.com...

I read it already, I already read like 20 articles on him. Both good and bad.
Have you guys ever learned about him, in school? Other than that he's a Buddhist leader and the "reincarnation" from the previous Dalai Lama?
Everything that comes out of his mouth is common sense. No war, and love each other, and live as morally as you can, and cherish your life. He's only saying all of this to boost his reputation in the Western world knowing that he has no hope in the East.
Where is all the happiness???????? I do not feel anything from what he has said. If people here feel so STRONG about him then why not crush China? Oh that's right, you can't fight.
Martin Luther King was fighting for rights, his speeches were actually inspiring and unique. Ghandi was gained supporters for his nonviolent plan and ascetic lifestyle. I do not see any of these characteristics in this "Dalai Lama" according to my sources. This man is a failure, only brainwashing the liberals.

And why don't you crawl back into that dark, endless tunnel you crawled out of?

You know, I haven't gotten this worked up over any of the other threads at ATS. I'm not too sorry though.

reply to post by HellcatEmi


Uh, er.....sorry about the previous post of mine, hellcat, where it looked as though you were meant to be the object of my derision.

Hit the wrong key. Humblest of apologies here.

reply to post by die_another_day


You keep throwing that kitten in front of the speeding Chinese semi. Are you communist and working for the Chinese military

reply to post by die_another_day


The Dalai Lama must be doing something right. He won a Nobel Peace Prize. While you are entitled to your opinion, apparently you are on a smear campaing mission only. You do realize that quite a few of your statements are not just opinion but slanderous? You have crossed the line of just having an opinion to making statements that are just not true, in an attempt to harm the reputation of this man.

Who's next on your agenda? Mother Teresa?






[edit on 15-2-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

Originally posted by die_another_day


Why is the Dalai Lama so involved in politics? Why can't he just be a preacher and make people happy? He's more worried about his own reputaion and power than the welfare of Tibetans.

To answer the first two questions:

He`s a god-king. It comes with the territory. Kind of glib (and sorry about that), but that`s what it all boils down to.

On the second point - I think that may have been the case at one point, but it`s becoming clear in the last few years that he`s coming to terms with reality. He`s been calling for an autonomy, rather than independance, for some time now - which leads me to believe that he`s been having a look at the ledgers. He`s also been saying recently that the position of Dalai Lama should be abolished after he steps down, for a few reasons.

In his own words:
www.dalailama.com...
www.dalailama.com...
www.dalailama.com...

He seems to be calling for a democratic, autonomous rule of Tibet within China - giving the best of both worlds - sustaining the massive economic benefit that China has provided Tibet, with a certain amount of self-rule. I`m thinking that Hong Kong and Macao are the models here.

On that score, I`m not sure that he won`t be successful - I think that`s likely the future of China over the next 10-20 years. Based on that, I think he is acting in the best interests of Tibetans.

This has been an interesting thread, by the way. I`m always a little taken aback by the way westerners view eastern religions, and this thread has been full of things that would have been shocking, had I not heard them before. Tibetan Buddhism, like Japanese schools of thought, tend to be placed on an absurdly high pedestal in the west, as being somehow more pure, more chock full `o truthiness than garden variety Christianity.

As for the cash, it`s the same wherever you go. Some Catholic priests ride bicycles everywhere, others drive Ferraris. I think I`ve seen that. May have been Dean and Sammy in Cannonball Run, though. Pat Robertson does all right for himself - had a decent racehorse for a while, still owns part of a gold mine in Liberia. The Pope does pretty well for himself, although technically none of it is his.

Buddhist priests here tend to make a very good living, for the most part: If someone dies, the priest comes to the house for the first three days, then the 10th day, then at the 1 month date, the 3 month, the 12 month, and then every year after that on the anniversary, plus usually at Obon in August - so usually twice a year. These days, it costs about $150USD for the visit and the prayer - but that`s kind of the suggested minimum. The god-bothering business has always been profitable....