are we alone in the universe?

badger01, well i could have asked a vast more detailed question for people like you but i chose this one only because its a question thats been used alot when dealing with the et reality and were not talking about bacteria, maybe you should actually study this phenomenon before you start spouting off at your keyboard

reply to post by trewth


There's a thread in "General Conspiracies" about what is allegedly "wrong" with ATS. I'm no angel....but your response may be a symptom of exactly what is being discussed over there. A viewpoint or opinion that is slightly counter to yours is posted...and you start flaming.

How 'bout this? Maybe we can actually discuss why the question is vague....or maybe even why it can't really be answered with the information we have available. Which brings me to a question....how does one study the phenomenon of 'et reality'? For instance, can you cite anything other than theory, guesses, or just fanciful wishes that can help to answer the question?

Are there some weird things going on? Yup. Are they manifestations of extraterrestrial activity? Don't know. Have they always been here? Don't know. Possibly multi-dimensional? Don't know. Are we the ones intruding on their existence? Don't know.

My neck hairs stand up when someone starts in with the "not seeing reality" thing. That works both ways....

reply to post by MrPenny



I think people need to look into the dictionary and figure out what the word "theory" means. It isn't just some guess as to what is going on. That's what one would call a hypothesis. A theory is a working model of real data, open to expansion and revision as new data comes in. Theories are ALL science has to go on. It's not just some ambiguous word used to replace the word "Guess".

The sooner you people realize that the better off this whole discussion is going to be.


[edit on 14-2-2008 by projectvxn]

[edit on 14-2-2008 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn


Oh really?....

Synonyms: philosophy, model, concept, system, scheme, idea, notion, principle, belief, rule, technique
Synonyms: hypothesis, conjecture, speculation, assumption, premise, presumption, supposition, guess
Source

I'm quite up to date on my vocabulary, thank you.

I'll help....here, pick one you like...Definitions of theory.

Theories simply attempt to explain an observable phenomenon. They aren't rules. Given the lack of hard data concerning the "et reality"....any theory could be just as valid as the next.

mrs penny i think your whats wrong with ats, you come on my thread flaming about my point of view which is different than yours, im going to continue to give my point of view whether people like you can understand it or not and whether you like or not

Civility & Decorum Are Required


This is your warning!

reply to post by trewth


So what was the point of asking a question and opening a thread for discussion?

I understand you loud and clear now....buh bye.....

who are you warning exactly? if its me, why are they allowed to say whatever they want toward my intelligence level and when i question theres i get warned?

the lady said im whats wrong with ats because i reply back to what they say and because im good at it i get warned, well why dont you ban me if im so bad for your website, quit being a chicken

[edit on 14-2-2008 by trewth]

reply to post by trewth


You and everyone else posting in this thread.

Cut it out and get on topic. Discuss the question posed " are we alone in the universe" - Do not discuss the members and thier intentions in this thread etc.

thats what im doing, im waiting for people to discuss the question, but people who question my intelligence and say im whats wrong with ats, im not going to let that go unchalleged sorry

reply to post by trewth



You have been asked to calm down, post on topic and abide by the T&C's of the site. We'll handle everyone else.

Proceed with caution.

fair enough, thank you

reply to post by trewth

I remember reading about the Mexican air force video and there was a mention that one of the alien space craft was quite large, it was about the size of a 12 story building, anyhow I was watching a youtube video and I think I seen the large alien space craft in the last couple seconds of this video . .

It’s hard to say exactly why I’d like to think we are not alone in the Universe. OTOH, when you consider what we know about life, that it is composed of the 4 basic elements, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Carbon, in just the right proportions, and that our life form base enjoys a goldilocks location near our star, then it may well be that WE ARE ALONE.

Add the but for planitoid collision which tilted our earth's axis 23.5 deg off the vertical without which tilt the oceans would have frozen solid 4 billion yeas ago and would never have melted. Finally, early life forms must have been located in the oceans, otherwise the suns UV rays would have throughly “sterilized” the planet. All this points to our singular existence in the vast Universe. Another Singularity!

[edit on 2/14/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by Badge01

There is, currently, no proof that they are coming here.

I disagree. I think there is plenty of proof. What I think we agree on, is that every human individual might require a different level of proof.

Also, I would like to continue to put emphasis on the following, which I feel is related to the OP's question and this discussion..

It is not up to the gov't to tell fox, cnn, msnbc etc to make a press conference and inform the citizens we're not alone. That is not the nature of life. The reason is because the very people who work in the gov't and for the media outlets are mere humans, just like me and you. Full of wonder, curiousity, potential, fear, skepticism, arrogance, and enthusiam... just like all of us posting on these boards.

I believe given enough time, the media and gov't posts will be occupied by humans who don't believe, rather know that we are not alone. Let each and every one of us not forget that a few centuries ago a flying saucer wouldn't have been understood in the context of "alien." We exist in a great time where we can comprehend the vast distance between planets and that we may be in fact not just part of a universe but rather a megaverse. These are all relatively new concepts which will take centuries to fully penetrate our cutural psyche.

reply to post by donwhite

All this points to our singular existence in the vast Universe. Another Singularity!

Hehe not so fast! According to modern physics the other side of a blackhole may in fact be a "whitehole." What exactly is a whitehole? We might be living in a whitehole. In other words, universes budding off of other universes, all of which come from a singularity and make a "big bang."

Let us not forget! The reason we don't see whitehouse landings or aliens like us is because aliens wouldn't be like us. Any aliens like us would be so because they were within a couple hundred years of us on an evolutionary timescale. But then they would run into the same technological, social etc problems like us.

I would say it is much more likely to find life far less advanced or far more advanced than us. Either one of those options make communication very difficult.

reply to post by Scramjet76


You say there's proof? Kindly list or detail the proof.

Now if you're going to say that 'crop circles' are proof, or lights in the sky are proof, or daylight disks are proof, then I'd suggest that you are mistaken as to what constitutes proof.

I'd take it a step further. There's not even any credible evidence that ET is coming here. No 'story' of contact or abduction, no matter how convincing is evidence. We've seen the full gamut of stories from the Contactees of the 50s to the Abductees of the 80s-present and all of them have problems in their tales.

One problem is that people conflate their definitions.

A light in the sky does not prove that there's an ET driving it, or even that it's a craft.

In fact I'd say that no sightings of any craft is proof that an ET is driving.

At the present time, we are fully capable of putting any craft in the sky that one might see, from football field sized stealth blimps to holographic 'craft', to disks and other exotic shapes.

We are fully capable of using optics or UAV/RPV to simulate any kind of flight trajectory. Remember, you see a light in the sky, see the light shrink, then see a smaller light appear distant from it and your brain calculates this as 'movement'.

The more closely you examine classic cases the more you see that there is quite possibly some human or military involvement.

The CIA has admitted to promoting the 'flying saucer' explanation to cover for stealth and other craft. They'd love for the Soviets to break the bank trying to find out and duplicate reported exotic craft that we caused them to think we have in our possession. So now they have two big reasons to promote the 'ET hypothesis'.

In addition it's a big step from 'are we alone' in the Universe to 'are they coming here'. Too often people want the answer to the second question but they ask the first question. They don't even really mean 'Universe' they mean Galaxy, because asking if there's other life in the Universe is not helpful. So what if there's an Earth like planet in a galaxy that's a million light years distant? We'll never know, they'll never communicate with us.

It's better to ask two questions:
1. Is there sentient, carbon-based life in our Galaxy and does it exist in our current time frame?
2. What are the conditions under which such sentient life can become space faring.

From that we can ask things like 'what is the evidence that there are any Type II civilizations in our Galaxy', and 'what does "space-faring" mean?' We can set up a 'Drake Equation' for the concept of 'space faring'. It would include terms related to the planet size, presence of minerals close to the surface, the size of the inhabitants, and their robustness wrt space flight, weightlessness and radiation resistance.

So, no, we are not alone in the UNIVERSE. There is undoubtedly a slime mold existing on some planet somewhere, probably LOTS of carbon-based life. But I have to ask, why ask such a vague question?

People want to make the non-logical jump that if we are NOT alone, then this is proof that they're coming here. It simply doesn't follow. It's a mis-use of 'statistics'.





[edit on 14-2-2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by Badge01


Oh dear. I like what you wrote. I just wrote you a response and hit submit and i.e. crashed on me. Lost it all. *pulls out hair*

I'll have to get back to you in a bit Badge.

Originally posted by trewth
thanks to all the positive people who posted there opinions especially projectvxn which was a thorough explanation of his position, unfortunately i have no respect for people like nohup, these people just sit back and say prove it, prove it, wheres the proof? wheres the beef?, well this is the whole point sherlock, where trying to prove something with video, photos and testimony of people who have responsible positions in society, thats all we can do and were going to keep doing that, i dont even know why you people even come to these websites other than to haunt the rest of us and nip at our heels, what you should do is try to think of ways to help us prove the case, i know thats impossible for you people but its worth asking

Look. Maybe you're the kind of person who sees a magician pull a rabbit out of a hat and believes he's got some mystical tunnel in his hat to happy bunny land. Maybe you can look at a blurry photo and see aliens waving at you. Maybe you can count up all the stars in the sky and without actually seeing their planets assume that little gray guys and Vulcans are strolling around on them. I'm not.

If you want runaway conjecture and people who "know The Truth" getting a big thrill from whatever half-assed, harebrained notion anyone comes up with, pop over to the "Seventh Seal" thread and check out the action there. Maybe you'll fit right in.

I've done the math and worked the logic, and happen to be of the opinion that if you're not a skeptic, you're a sucker. And if you feel that the comments I make or the questions I ask are somehow unfair and make you feel uncomfortable, then maybe you need to ask yourself why. To save you the trouble, I'll give you the answer. It's because you don't have good answers. You don't have good, solid proof. All you have are hopes and fantasies.

Maybe that's good enough for you. Maybe you don't have enough imagination to allow that maybe that blurry photo is anything other than an alien space ship. But don't pretend that you know more than you do, and if all you're interested in is fantasy, hop over to the science FICTION forums and have yourself a grand old time. If you aren't ready to face the hard questions and lack of proof, then do yourself a favor stay out of the way of people who are actually interested in maybe finding out what's really going on.

reply to post by MrPenny


With that said, why is it such an invalid argument to ask about the truth of ETs? I'm tired of arguing the validity of this issue. The issue is already valid. Most people think it is. We have to advance the study now. And that kind of thing isn't helping. I also use my language correctly and I said that it wasn't an arbitrary guess. We have proof of life in the universe. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. So lets start looking for it elsewhere. It's shouldn't be a question of validity to make the suggestion.

there is no doubt that there is other life forms in the universe and they have arrived here on earth and the u.s. govt has the proof, we dont have proof here on this board but there is proof, hopefully one day that proof will be given to us in the form of disclosure, but anybody with common sense and who has studied the thousands of cases available can only come to the conclusion that there are advanced et races based throughout our own galaxy and its just a matter of time this will be made known to all mankind