Putin accuses U.S., NATO of reviving an 'arms race'

reply to post by magicmushroom


Prophecy says the U.S. and Russia will be allies in the last war. It is China who will burn. Even today China has medium range nukes pointed at Russia. Just to also prove your theory wrong, The U.S. planing has on paper the option to take on Russia and China because we have enough nuclear power and the capability to get the job done.

Sky no the US dose not have enough nukes to get the job done as you put it, I am quit amazed at the number of people here who think nuking people and nations is a good idea and see others as inferior, Hitler would no doubt would have been proud of you all.

And to get back on topic Putin is correct, he is well aware of America's imperialistic ambitions and is merely bring it to the attention of others. And if you think the Russians would side with America over China then you are sadly mistaken, military thinkers in both those countries see the US and its people as weak and poorly led, lazy and complacent people who dont have the motivation for conquest and judging by the comments from many Americans and America's military history they appear to be correct in their statements. (the above are not my words just in case you start calling me anti American)

Quality of life and the value of it has never been high on Russia's or China's leaders or military leaders, again history backs that up. America on the other hand is or should I say the politicians are and again that is backed up by the politcal speak of the current ME conflicts, not counting civilian casulties, lying about combat deaths and injuries and not showing the fallen coming home, those are all indicators of weak political rule, the politicians fearfull that if the people back home really knew the truth they would want out of these wars and indeed many do.

What you and others need to remember at the end of the day that it is you that will suffer, you and all the other patriots who will die for the rich and politicians, just as thousands have die in Iraq, while people like Bush and Cheney get rich on war, what dose the American family get for loosing a loved one, nothing but pain and torment, no riches for them is there, there are no glorious dead just the dead who gave up their lives for an illusion whilst others far away from the murder and mayhem slept safe in their beds gettting richer every day.

reply to post by magicmushroom


I see you have fallen for the lies of the KGB as well. How many nukes do you think it takes to destroy China and Russia?

Putin isn't much different then previous soviet leaders, remember nikita and his infamous we will bury you speech? yeah that worked out well for russia didn't it?

The US is still at the top of the planet and we are still the only Superpower around. baseless words and petty jealosy and hate from smaller nations and people will not change that.

Originally posted by US Monitor
reply to post by magicmushroom

 

I see you have fallen for the lies of the KGB as well. How many nukes do you think it takes to destroy China and Russia?

Putin isn't much different then previous soviet leaders, remember nikita and his infamous we will bury you speech? yeah that worked out well for russia didn't it?

The US is still at the top of the planet and we are still the only Superpower around. baseless words and petty jealosy and hate from smaller nations and people will not change that.

How many nukes do you think it takes to destroy US, few. Just hit all the oil refineries, US won't be able to wage a war.

US Monitor, Oh dear another person who believes all the bull crap, if you want to measure superpower status from numbers of nukes then I'm affraid your in for a shock, the Russian's have more nukes than what you think they have.

And how many do you think it would take to bring the us to its knees, I mean your president went awol on 9/11 as did your air defense and the country was in a panic, that does not sound like superpower status to me. So if you can be so easily be panicked and be ill prepared on a none military attack how the hell do you expect to cope in a major attack.

And pettynous, jealousy no I dont pander to that, I deal with reality and hard facts if you like it or not. And your are right on one matter, the US is top of the pile the debt pile that is, and far from looking down on all those little countries as you call them who do you think is loaning the money for you to fight wars and for everyday survival.

Just remember many of those countries you make fun of have US bases on them that you need to project your power and they can be thrown out of those countries at any time. America is losing friends like its wasting money so I dont think being arrogant or ignorant helps the situation.

You see people like you need to get out of that bubble your living in you will be quite suprised at whats going on outside of it. Mind you, you do have to have an open mind on matters that always helps.

reply to post by StellarX


Stellar, you have managed 4 pages worth of posting, to that,
I will not respond in kind. However, I will post the "facts" as they are.

He happens to be a official historian of the US armed forces. I guess it's all about what people say and not who they are!

Regardless, he is nothing more than an Arm chair general. Further more, he said he would grade the overall performance as "mediocre", which surprises me, given all the US military has been tasked to do in Iraq, mediocre isn't half bad.

In terms of GDP that is actually possible but do you know that GDP growth means ALL expenditure and that this includes whatever it costs to dig graves, rebuild all the bombed schools, religious institutions, electricity generation, oil infrastructure, agricultural enterprise. Do you realise that the Iraqi economy grew much faster in the 60's and 70's before the US intervened to induce SH to fight Iran and invade countries with resulting sanctions? The Iraq's were not only economically better off under SH but they lived longer.

Regardless, it does not change the fact, that Iraq is making substantial progress, and many individual Iraqis are experiencing much more freedom then they were accustomed to under the restrictions, and terror, that was being employed by Saddam.

Some of them would be as they just can not find work and can't support their families. When said families then get blown to oblivion by a misdirected air strike or marines who employ dead checking methodologies i would not be surprised if some of them decides to risk their lives. What some people forget is that taking on modern war machine is pretty suicidal in itself unless you are suitable equipped and that suicide bombing may or may not be much of a added risk ( if one has intestinal fortitude) if one wishes to effectively attack the occupiers.

That doesn't answer my question, that attempts to excuse my question. That doesn't explain why innocent Iraqis are being targeted wherever they meet up in mass. Unless, you are saying, that these ''honorable freedom fighters'' who are so courageous, deem it necessary to kill their own (which you seem to support)?

You do not seem to have a understanding of what GDP means.

I have little desire to get into these tacky arguments with you. I suggest educating your self on what GDP means before referring others to such nonsense.

Since the election were not democratic and large sections of the Iraqi population did not vote it was NOT democratic and few in actual western world believes that it is. Once again i have given sources but you just ignored them and just went on claiming what you did without any evidence.

In your own words, define democratic for me stellar.

Despite your uncorroborated claims, Iraq did in fact have a high voter turnout, this amidst all the violence that has/had plagued that country during that specific time. This is a true testament to the Iraqi democracy, that you willing-fully-blindly-deny, based off of your own 'self-righteous' opinion.

(I can provide more sources, but I thought Al-Jazeera was a fairly valid source in regards to what is being discussed.)

And, everyone notice how Stellar "fails" to mention Afghanistan, and the incredibly high turnouts it had in its voting process.

And yet no one makes that argument when the US nuclear arsenal has long been negated by the active and passive defenses of the USSR/RF... Why don't you mention that rather than assume the US efforts to catch is evidence that it's gaining supremacy? It just shows you how easy it is for us to believe exactly as we like and it's one of the reason why i do my best to at least involve a whole host of sources! I might obviously still be wrong but at least you can see where i am getting my information from while others can wonder where you are pulling yours from.

I have addressed such issues, to a certain detail, in a separate thread, I will not repeat myself. Much of what the US is doing in the form of AI(which it is leaps and bounds ahead of Russia in) along with conventional, and spaces forces, russia's future military will become what is commonly known as "obsolete", or a "hollow force" when compared to vastly superior US armed force.

i also happen to believe that the USSR/RF has held the high ground for a few decades now. To get them out of it at this stage is not going to be easy if at all possible.

Which isn't very well corroborated either (partly because it is your opinion), and in which it does not explain the little "hissy fits" that Russia is throwing in regards to the "threat" of US weaponization of space.

I have already provided sources in a separate thread (from which I await your response) how it is the US who will be the one able to deny adversary's access/entry to space if it so chooses to.

And yet no one makes that argument when the US nuclear arsenal has long been negated by the active and passive defenses of the USSR/RF...

Which, yet again, is unsubstantiated proof.

Further more, you do not work in the US defense department, making your speculative unsubstantial "evidence" more fiction, than it is non.

The really bad news for you, and other pro russians, is, you are still not aware of how screwed up the Soviet era military was.

You profess to know what you are talking about, but it is all a world of self delusion, the gig is up, stellar.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
US Monitor, Oh dear another person who believes all the bull crap,

Likewise

if you want to measure superpower status from numbers of nukes then I'm affraid your in for a shock, the Russian's have more nukes than what you think they have.

Russia bought lots of weapons, but did not have the money to maintain them.

Which can explain the large volume of nuclear weapons, that, the US has had to help the Russians properly "dispose" of.

And how many do you think it would take to bring the us to its knees, I mean your president went awol on 9/11 as did your air defense and the country was in a panic, that does not sound like superpower status to me. So if you can be so easily be panicked and be ill prepared on a none military attack how the hell do you expect to cope in a major attack.

Typical anti-American sentiment. Believing that the one nation who accounts for 27% of the worlds GDP, and who indisputably controls the world stage is not in the very least, a superpower, is pretending that your insecurities do not exist, either way, you will hide whats true if for nothing more, then to help you get a good nights sleep.

And pettynous, jealousy no I dont pander to that, I deal with reality and hard facts if you like it or not. And your are right on one matter, the US is top of the pile the debt pile that is, and far from looking down on all those little countries as you call them who do you think is loaning the money for you to fight wars and for everyday survival.

Who is financing the world?

Just remember many of those countries you make fun of have US bases on them that you need to project your power and they can be thrown out of those countries at any time. America is losing friends like its wasting money so I dont think being arrogant or ignorant helps the situation.

I have nothing but the highest respect for US allies, and their service men.

But your irrational tactics are depressing and "gloomy".

West Coast of course my comments are depressing and gloomy because people like you dont like to hear the truth only you version of it, unfortunately you believe all the lies and even when other members provide you with facts and details you chose to disparage them.

Well thats fine its all about choice, but personal choices do not change the facts and will not change the endgame. And I find it really rich when people such as you call me anti American becuase people like you are anti the rest of the world, one can see it in your comments. As I have said before there is nothing wrong in being patriotict but there is if you regard yoursellf to be better and superior to all others, that can only go one way and that is downwards.

The simple facts are that the military of Western nations has been shrinking, yes Russia's took a fall but they have been rearming and have been spending far more on the military then they have delared publicly. China too, whilst making massive proffits from its ever growing economy they have been spending on their military like its going out of fashion.

One of the pitfalls for the US is that its weapons systems are so expensive yet the Russians and Chines can field counter measures that cost alot less. Look at the advances the Germans made in miliatary technology but they were swamped by cheap easy to replace Katuysha rockets systems and other such technology. Sometimes its not all about quality sometimes it really is about quantity.

Putin isn't much different then previous soviet leaders, remember nikita and his infamous we will bury you speech? yeah that worked out well for russia didn't it?

You are right, there is not much difrence, but the same can be said about the US presidents, democrats or republicans, same game same tactics.

In fact you would be surprised that this is actualy a positive factor, each world power preventing the other from gaining total supremacy.
The world needs a balance, once one side has total power there is no oposition to incrimiate.
Just like in politics there is a goverment and there is an oposition, same on the world scale, with out any oposition one side can do what ever it will please.

The US is still at the top of the planet and we are still the only Superpower around.

Oh yes, the home of the brave land of the free, get out of the country jack, get a passport ,travel, and see the world.

baseless words and petty jealosy and hate from smaller nations and people will not change that.

Jelosy of what? of the mecdonald's generation? you are ran by Europe any way, all big decisions are taken by europe's bank elite, your president is just a pupet.
United States never had independence from the roiality of europe, it was just a simple ilusion.

Originally posted by West Coast
Stellar, you have managed 4 pages worth of posting, to that,

After extensive editing so as to not offend the site moderators ( size) and people who hate reading facts they have already chosen to ignore.

I will not respond in kind. However, I will post the "facts" as they are.

With the normal absence of sourcing....

Regardless, he is nothing more than an Arm chair general. Further more, he said he would grade the overall performance as "mediocre", which surprises me, given all the US military has been tasked to do in Iraq, mediocre isn't half bad.

So it's entirely beside the fact that the US armed forced judged this man capable of making assessments about it's performance and history? It's one thing to disagree with avid reader such as myself but why exactly have you , the great proponent of US military might, decided to disregard the words of a man who was chosen by that same authority you pretend to respect&love?

Regardless, it does not change the fact, that Iraq is making substantial progress,

According to some conservative sources, yes, but once again i must ask why you have chosen to disregard the UN when it's their authority your government used to 'prove' that SH were a mass murderer and tyrant? Why have you chosen to suddenly not believe the UN about current living conditions? I also sometimes use a source that i have in the past in some way discredited but i do my best to supply the sources and reasons why i did so!

and many individual Iraqis are experiencing much more freedom then they were accustomed to under the restrictions, and terror, that was being employed by Saddam.

The more than two to three million that did not die during the sanctions and the last , almost, 5 years of foreign occupation.

www.boston.com...

www.ft.com...

www.usatoday.com...

www.counterpunch.org...

news.independent.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.washingtonpost.com...

And the newer study suggest more than a million with more than a million excess deaths during the sanctions.

If you add the 2 million Iraqi's that had possibly left up to January 2007 and the half a million internally displaced that's about 25% of the pre war Iraqi' population that are either too dead to be happy about events, had to flee events or could afford to get out the country before either of the previous things could happen to them. To suggest that things are going 'substansially' better is to employ standards no reasonable person should.

(01-16) 04:00 PST Washington -- Iraq is in the throes of the largest refugee crisis in the Middle East since the Palestinian exodus from Israel in 1948, a mass flight out of and within the country that is ravaging basic services and commerce, swamping neighboring nations with nearly 2 million refugees and building intense pressure for emigration to Europe and the United States, according to the United Nations and refugee experts.

www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2007/01/16/MNG2MNJBIS1.DTL

That doesn't answer my question, that attempts to excuse my question.

It always takes more intestinal fortitude to resist a occupier than to occupy and that's my point. Why you wish to prove that one requires 'intestinal fortitude' to occupy other nations i do not know but it is in my opinion besides the point and if it was in fact the case it would only prove that the US armed forces are in fact a mercenary operation that will do anything for the right pay. Since so many American troops are in fact suffering from PTSD and other stress/conscious related problems there is however plenty of hope.

That doesn't explain why innocent Iraqis are being targeted wherever they meet up in mass.

Well we don't know who are blowing them up ( SAS troopers dressed in Iraqi clothes/beards with bombs in the boot were arrested by Iraqi' police but 'liberted' from the jail by British tanks and infantry) but we do know that this would likely not have happened without a occupation by foreigners. At least SH were more selected in who he killed and for which reasons as right now you just need to be in the country to be in danger.

Unless, you are saying, that these ''honorable freedom fighters'' who are so courageous, deem it necessary to kill their own (which you seem to support)?

If you can point me to a liberation struggle where those fighting their occupiers did not also commit horrendous crimes against those they suspected of working with the 'enemy' i will admit that the current events in Iraq are somehow different from all the rest of human history. The problem with occupation is that it creates the type of conditions that upsets regular policing thus failing to prevent minorities/majorities from acting on their prejudices and committing crimes might otherwise have been unlikely if not heavily punished.

I have little desire to get into these tacky arguments with you. I suggest educating your self on what GDP means before referring others to such nonsense.

I have little desire to talk to you at all and when you start giving me some indication that you are reading my sources i will check out your idea of what GDP is. Do you have any specific reasons for disagreeing with the statements in the pages i provided and if not why do you wish to tell me what GDP means when it's widely admitted that it's no measurement for quality of life or benefits for citizens?

In your own words, define democratic for me stellar.

1 a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2: a political unit that has a democratic government
3 capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States
4: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

www.merriam-webster.com...

Are you happy to know that you do not even live in a democracy? It's really no surprise that you don't even know what it is.

Despite your uncorroborated claims, Iraq did in fact have a high voter turnout, this amidst all the violence that has/had plagued that country during that specific time.

I have nothing against Aljazeera ( just surprised to see you using it) but that is the number widely touted in the western press so i will just presume that they are towing the line as news organizations all seem to do on most given days. Presuming that the turnout was in fact 79% ( en.wikipedia.org...) it hardly changes the fact that the vast majority of candidates and parties were excluded long before the election and that people desperately wanted to vote to change things and did their best to find alternatives.

This is a true testament to the Iraqi democracy, that you willing-fully-blindly-deny, based off of your own 'self-righteous' opinion.

It's a true testament to how much people want democracy and how they will participate full well knowing that the occupiers of their country is simply not going to let them do what they like. I am quite sure the turnout was lower than 'proven' but it really matters little knowing who orchestrated it and who still benefits by it.

(I can provide more sources, but I thought Al-Jazeera was a fairly valid source in regards to what is being discussed.)

You did? Here's one of my 'biased' sources!

"There was still a lot of confidence we would find a way around the fatwa," one U.S. official said.

By August, after lengthy discussions, American political officers and several council members settled on the idea of a "partial election." Instead of allowing anyone to stand as a candidate and having to compile voter rolls for general elections, the occupation authority would organize caucuses in each governorate, or province, that would be limited to political, religious, tribal, academic and trade union leaders as well as other influential local figures approved by the Americans. The caucus would select the drafters of the constitution.

Although holding caucuses would take longer than directly appointing the authors, Bremer accepted the idea, as did several influential members of the Governing Council. "It was the ideal compromise," said council member Samir Shakir Mahmoud Sumaidy. "The process would be more democratic, but it would avoid the problems of a general election."

www.washingtonpost.com...

Continued

[edit on 19-2-2008 by StellarX]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by StellarX]

And if you need any more evidence of 'bias' in this election you only need to reflect on the fact that Iraq has a non-Arab for president? Do you think Iraqi's wanted a Kurd for president? Would really be the result of a democratic election in Iraq and if so why did the Bremer ( the real ruler of that country) have to impose so many restrictions if he wasn't concerned about the outcome?

And, everyone notice how Stellar "fails" to mention Afghanistan, and the incredibly high turnouts it had in its voting process.

Once again i suspect that most here realises that both countries are occupied by foreign powers. Don't you know your history or do you have evidence that the US acts differently from other occupiers?

I have addressed such issues, to a certain detail, in a separate thread, I will not repeat myself.

Actually i do plenty of repeating when you keep restating the same old nonsense so i will at least expect you to present the same old falsehoods so that who ever is reading might gain insight into just how shallow your defense of ignorance is. You have NOT addressed why the Russians operate the only admitted ABM defense system in the world or why they have hundreds of other dual use SAM systems that will be employed against strategic missiles.

Much of what the US is doing in the form of AI(which it is leaps and bounds ahead of Russia in)

Where are the US so far ahead and if so is that due to the absence of similar Russian technology or their choices? How much of American technology has been stolen by Russians and how much, if any, did the US steal? I don't understand how you can argue that the US is leaps and bounds ahead in many of the weapons technologies you seem to focus on. Don't you know that the USSR were far ahead in the direct energy weapons race back in the 70's and 80's and that both countries were actively firing their weapons at each other's space assets during the late 70's and 80's? Do you know that the USSR could track space shuttles and fighter planes with their space based DEW assets?

along with conventional, and spaces forces, russia's future military will become what is commonly known as "obsolete", or a "hollow force" when compared to vastly superior US armed force.

So all you have is more bluster? If the Russian armed forces is not obsolete now why would the prospects get so much worse when their economy is doing exceedingly well as compared to the US and other major western powers?

Which isn't very well corroborated either (partly because it is your opinion), and in which it does not explain the little "hissy fits" that Russia is throwing in regards to the "threat" of US weaponization of space.

Well if you had dominance in a certain arena without it being widely known why would you just silently allow someone else to intrude without trying to shame them out of it by public exposure? Why does the US keeps insisting that other countries should not build nuclear weapons when it has so many? Do you even begin to understand the logic of the powerful and how they never wish to allow others access to similar technologies?

I have already provided sources in a separate thread (from which I await your response) how it is the US who will be the one able to deny adversary's access/entry to space if it so chooses to.

Which does not explain why the US has not already taken that high ground with all it's supposed might. What has the US been doing the last few decades since it landed on the moon with the Russians building space stations with lasers and particle beam weapons? Why are they now threatening to take over space?

Which, yet again, is unsubstantiated proof.

So you just ignore my sources and say it 'isn't so'. Please address my sources or i will just be forced to use more and more of them in the future.

Further more, you do not work in the US defense department, making your speculative unsubstantial "evidence" more fiction, than it is non.

But i can read their documents and it's on their own information that i base my claims. If you actually read my sources you would know that but you do not seem to be doing any of that.

The really bad news for you, and other pro russians, is, you are still not aware of how screwed up the Soviet era military was.

You profess to know what you are talking about, but it is all a world of self delusion, the gig is up, stellar.

The great James Dunnigan ( the author of that article) has clearly set me strait and i wonder how i could ever have been so deluded! It's true what they say about the American education system and how it basically only teaches confidence which in the absence of accurate/useful knowledge, as in your case, is just plain self deluding arrogance. If you would only start addressing my sources we can have a proper discussion but until then we are stuck on this particularly silly merry-go-round. Hopefully my sources has enlightened the few who actually reads such things...

Stellar

Originally posted by magicmushroom
West Coast of course my comments are depressing and gloomy because people like you dont like to hear the truth only you version of it, unfortunately you believe all the lies and even when other members provide you with facts and details you chose to disparage them.

I have already exposed you.. nothing more needs be said.

The simple facts are that the military of Western nations has been shrinking,

This is Europe's case. In regards to the US, the same does not apply. Again, I am just stating the "facts".

yes Russia's took a fall but they have been rearming and have been spending far more on the military then they have delared publicly. China too, whilst making massive proffits from its ever growing economy they have been spending on their military like its going out of fashion.

And during that "fall" the US has continued on, refining to complete perfection, its military capabilities.

The end result will be full spectrum domination over both current, and potential adversary's.

Google Video Link

Russia was never known for being at the forefront of the technological spectrum. Both China, and Russia, greatly lag the US in numerous fields: AI, "NBIC", the "Global Information Grid", nanotechnology, biotechnology, autonomous drones, "naval sea-bases", space weapons, lasers, etc.

One of the pitfalls for the US is that its weapons systems are so expensive yet the Russians and Chines can field counter measures that cost alot less.

Which does nothing to explain why soviet weapons came in at a distant second when fielded against superior "western" (US) made weapons..

When referring to US weapons sales to foreign nations, one also must take into account the R&D costs which are often associated in foreign sales.

Meanwhile, I would like you to tell me yourself, what does Russia have in its conventional arsenal that is comparable to what the US is fielding, and will be fielding in the coming decade?

West Coast you are really uneducated arent you, even PNAC states that the American armed forces have suffered and needs investment to bring it up to par to meet the force demands and objectives. Is PNAC a pack of lies as well or dont you even believe the words of your own military planners.

And again you disparage the Russians, who was first in space, not the Americans, You believe all the propaganda dont you, the history of the World the American version. I cannot even begin to understand why you are so arrogant and ignorant. You have nothing to offer but delluded fantasies and lies, you cannot even engage in a meaningful discussion without resorting to petty name calling and refusing to engage in the real facts and reality.

Personally you should be banned from this site, you are an affront to those who spend their good time to try and educate and spread knowledge. You on the other hand seek to hide in the shadows and live in the world of Alice in Wonderland.

As the saying goes you can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink it.

Stellar,

So much ignorance packed in just 1 sentence. Even by African standards, this is poor..

You are just flailing around in futility now. Let me summarize my facts/points again, as this debate with you is over:

1.The US has successfully brought a growing Democracy to Iraq, in which things have gotten substantially better, and as the Iraqi index shows, will continue to steadily improve over time. The US has also brought freedom to Afghanistan, just like it brought it to Germany and Eastern Europe.

2. We've already established Iraq and Afghanistan (which you continually fail to mention) had a high voter turn out, which is a true testament to how far they have come.

The rest of your repetitive "no-show" arguments are pretty much what I expect from you stellar, I have stated the "facts" which you have chosen to ignore, while living in your self inflicted land of delirium. I do not take you seriously, and quite frankly, never have.

Now to address of few posts filled with all sorts of incoherent babbling....

"Actually i do plenty of repeating when you keep restating the same old nonsense so i will at least expect you to present the same old falsehoods so that who ever is reading might gain insight into just how shallow your defense of ignorance is." - Stellar

"After extensive editing so as to not offend the site moderators ( size) and people who hate reading facts they have already chosen to ignore. " - Stellar

As Albert Einstein once said - "If you cannot explain something in succinct, simple terms, you don't understand it well enough".

"Are you happy to know that you do not even live in a democracy? It's really no surprise that you don't even know what it is. " - Stellar

Stellar, your reading comprehension is suspect at best. I asked you to define in "your own words", what a democracy is, not paste, and post somebody elses.

"Actually i do plenty of repeating when you keep restating the same old nonsense so i will at least expect you to present the same old falsehoods so that who ever is reading might gain insight into just how shallow your defense of ignorance is. You have NOT addressed why the Russians operate the only admitted ABM defense system in the world or why they have hundreds of other dual use SAM systems that will be employed against strategic missiles. " - Stellar

You have exhibited the 3 classic traits of someone who's subconscious already knows he has been comprehensively thrashed in an argument. They are :

a) Ad hominem personal attacks.
b) A constant disregard of the facts, and an inability to represent the "facts".
b)Writing multiple (in this case, 6 and counting) pages of tenuous coherence, while still not being able to address the "points" (your not as smart as you think) in the unsubstantiated articles you post, in a readable/understandable way.

Stellar, good luck at life.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by West Coast]

The end result will be full spectrum domination over both current, and potential adversary's.

What weird fascist fantasy.

The end result will be civil war, and/or a nuclear holocaust...
I'll take civil war if it comes to that.

Should the US achieve the "full spectrum dominance" our militarists breathlessly advocate, we will become a threat to any nation wishing to retain it's sovereignty. They will have no choice but to use the one option where they still have a shot at coming out independent - nuclear warfare.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
West Coast you are really uneducated arent you,

Name calling is a sign of weakness, which after reading your post, your clearly exhibiting.

I am quite confident when I say, I am smarter than you. ...it's cause I am.

even PNAC states that the American armed forces have suffered and needs investment to bring it up to par to meet the force demands and objectives. Is PNAC a pack of lies as well or dont you even believe the words of your own military planners.

I agree, However, what do you think FCS ($200 billion dollar transformation of the US army) is for? This is all on schedule for the 2012-2015 time frame, and as this "system" is open ended, it will constantly see the latest upgrades to the "system".

And again you disparage the Russians, who was first in space, not the Americans,

Russia was ahead in the space race early on, but tell me this, who was the first (and only) to step foot on the moon, and who since than, has dominated space?

You believe all the propaganda dont you, the history of the World the American version. I cannot even begin to understand why you are so arrogant and ignorant. You have nothing to offer but delluded fantasies and lies, you cannot even engage in a meaningful discussion without resorting to petty name calling and refusing to engage in the real facts and reality.

I have presented facts, you have presented a biased source (yourself), and nothing more.

Personally you should be banned from this site, you are an affront to those who spend their good time to try and educate and spread knowledge. You on the other hand seek to hide in the shadows and live in the world of Alice in Wonderland.

What knowledge, besides that deluded opinion of yours, is being spread? You have presented no facts, no sources, etc. If you say something, then the burden of proof is yours to prove. If you cannot properly defend your belief, then do not waste neither yours, nor my time by making such baseless claims.

As the saying goes you can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink it.

That is a horrible analogy. Are you in a cult?

[edit on 19-2-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by xmotex
The end result will be civil war, and/or a nuclear holocaust...
I'll take civil war if it comes to that.

Should the US achieve the "full spectrum dominance" our militarists breathlessly advocate, we will become a threat to any nation wishing to retain it's sovereignty. They will have no choice but to use the one option where they still have a shot at coming out independent - nuclear warfare.

I have no problem with opinions, but at least research what it is you are trying to debase.

I have already discussed that the nuclear window is closing for "the mother land". And this program is at the forefront of doing that. Making nuclear warfare, in general, obsolete.

I understand your fear of a single nation holding so much power. Especially if you do not agree/trust your representatives.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by West Coast]

reply to post by West Coast


haha, excuse me? Name calling is a sign of weakness, then how dare you calling me names in previous posts, you hypocryte. You believe all the propaganda US shows, but you forget to comprehend most of other's poster's posts.

You've called several times me and other poster's an anti-american, Come on, it is getting quite old, looks like someone is paranoid

You definitely need to learn history son, otherwise don't even speak and quoting ENSTEIN doesn't make you smart, just to tell you .

From my point of view and knowing that you never traveled abroad , which is a fact, I wouldn't be surprised and judging and telling people from their countries, how their country run? Come on! Everyone agrees , that only elementary kids do it.
Come on, tell me more about my country or Serbia, you know NOTHING, what so ever about EUROPEAN HISToRY as I Do or any other European, so don't even try to fill BS here about how you're right

Originally posted by Odessit
From my point of view and knowing that you never traveled abroad , which is a fact, I wouldn't be surprised and judging and telling people from their countries, how their country run? Come on! Everyone agrees , that only elementary kids do it.

sorry, but did you just call him a hypocrite? you must be an elementary kid.

reply to post by wisefoolishness


oooh my, couldn't resist throwing your 2 cents there , isn't it

great reply man, keep it up




[edit on 19-2-2008 by Odessit]