Fatima UFO coverup... proof that aliens are associated with religion

Wheres everyone gone?

reply to post by irishdave


hi irishdave !


im still here...lol

the question i have for you is how are we ever going to come to a conclusion on this that isnt biased or opinionated when all the evidence is second hand and has been distorted ?


all the pictures of this event other than the people looking up have been surpressed ? the continuation of deciding wich is the correct meaning of all this is just going to be speculation.


not that i dont want to talk about it but where is it going to lead to is my question ?

easynow,

I don't know what the answers are. I was watching some vid's online of the miracle of the sun at medjugorje and the interesting common factors are that the land is rocky and mountainous and has faultlines beneath it, so the idea of the earth somehow affecting the frontal lobe is interesting though, again, it doesn't explain the external evidence.

I really think the work being researched on microwave communication shows lots of the effects that Lucia and the medjogorje seers display but even if I consider this an answer then it still leaves the question of who is doing it and why.

I believe cultural influence upon the recognition and identification of the beings is very important and the real, core of the apparition was misunderstood. Ha ha, though don't ask me why this was allowed to occur.

reply to post by irishdave





i think the mysteries of the magnetic fields of the earth and how they are influenced or focused by certain geological aspects of a certain area are very interesting and have always thought that there is something to it.

here is an article that i think you might like.....

Magnetic and geologic surveys of many areas throughout the world have revealed magnetic anomalies that could not be produced by any natural or known phenomena. These transient magnetic anomalies have been recorded, indicating synchronous aerial magnetic anomalies have a multidimensional para physical place of origin, in terms of a different level of reality, where stability and solidity are being fuelled by a ceaseless process of subatomic particles, constantly dissolving into an implicit order, and then re-crystallizing within our space. Extraterrestrial biological entities may be using technologies and aspects of the physical universe that are beyond our current understanding to conceal their behavior, culture, appearance, and occasionally revealing their presence in our measurable space-time by making frequency shifts that leave traces of field flux, in certain energy spectra, allowing us to witness their presence.

Organizations (Project Phoenix and the BETA 2 Group) on earth have confirmed signals, using narrow band spectral analyzers, privately stating that the signals received, exhibited enough source information to determine and confirm an intelligent agent created them. The signals show language like structures, proofing "alien" intelligence to human life.

www.alienmania.org...
Alien Contact




and here is a thread where i was trying to explore explanations on magnetics and how ufo's could be using this to appear or navigate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
alien life ?... on the other side of this reality, page 1

the thread didnt go to far because people cant grasp this concept because its too much mind work involved and they just want to see a ufo with out understanding the hows and why's....lol

I believe cultural influence upon the recognition and identification of the beings is very important and the real, core of the apparition was misunderstood. Ha ha, though don't ask me why this was allowed to occur.

either way you look at this event there is a religious connection in some way and i am convinced that there is a specific reason for the cultural influence that these beings are initiating ... however, how can we really ever determine if the core understanding of these beings was misunderstood ? what is the 'occams razor' explanation of this ?

the Marian apparitions that are occurring all over are a clear message to me that someone wants us to take notice of what is on the other side.


here is an interesting story of a man that i actually have met when i was younger and he has a connection to the Marian apparitions of Garabandal.

www.tldm.org...
Will Our Lady of the Roses soon restore Joey Lomangino’s eyesight at the Shrine?

I was catching up with the electromagnetism thread and also wondering if there is any explanation that CAN be ruled out for Fatima at this point.

It's funny how Brazil is a UFO hotspot and it has no real seismic activity, so I wonder if this might put a hole in the earthquake-UFO theory?

As for electromagnetism being somehow a way to manipulate dimensions, its interesting but far beyond my own knowledge insofar as how it may be possible or not. Obviously we're finding more and more out about quantum physics and seemingly this will lead to all types of new inventions and teleportation techniques; I read michael Talbots book 'The Holographic Universe' recently and some of his ideas fit into this paradigm.

As for Fatima, well, the one thing I've realized with regard to the religious aspect is that it hasn't been particularly successful. In Ireland, for example, the only people who travel to Fatima, Lourdes or Medgugorje are disabled people looking for a miracle, old ladies who have no one left in their lives and and a small amount of the very devout. This, if representative of the average visitor to these areas (which I believe is accurate, more or less) does not show a sizeable or influential demographic and it makes me question why a higher intelligence wouldn't have thought more about WHO they appeared to.

Another major consideration is that nothing much has changed SINCE Fatima, what did it actually achieve? As far as I can see, apart from the kind of people I mentioned, it hasn't been something that the average person considers an instigation of communication between us and a higher (religious even) realm. It seems its only the curious minority who are even keeping its memory active today.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by irishdave]

reply to post by irishdave

I was catching up with the electromagnetism thread and also wondering if there is any explanation that CAN be ruled out for Fatima at this point.

from where i sit , none of the explanations of this event can be ruled out as of yet. since i wasnt there and don't have access to the real evidence, there is no way for me to dismiss any of the theory's contemplating this.

i think the people that dismiss or rule out certain explanations of this are only doing it because they are biased in their personal beliefs , wether it be religion or aliens.

personal beliefs or agendas cloud the evidence in this case from what i have observed and the book 'celestial secrets' is a perfect example of that.

i have to consider the possibility that the authors of those books did get to see evidence that we have not seen ourselves but i suspect they manipulated their findings to accommodate an Alien conspiracy story in order to cash in on the huge business of selling UFO books.

the idea of a conspiracy that includes the Vatican , religion and Aliens is sure to create enough controversy that would lead to many books being sold.

i have not ruled out their take on this investigation however i am leary of siding with their findings because of the money factor.

It's funny how Brazil is a UFO hotspot and it has no real seismic activity, so I wonder if this might put a hole in the earthquake-UFO theory?

well your statement here got me thinking about it and i went to checking it out and as far as i can tell there are many geological aspects of that region that would indicate volcanic and plate tectonics and is an important piece of the 'ley lines' configuration.

from what i read about it most of the volcanic activity is dormant as of today but there is a huge amount of evidence that show's this area was very active and there are pictures of dormant volcano's there.



here is an image that shows the current plate tectonics in south America and yes most of it does appear to be on the west coast.

[ats]

www.seismo.unr.edu...
Plate Tectonics, the Cause of Earthquakes



just off the coast of Brazil there seems to be a very important piece of the lay lines grid or ' earth grid '





www.crystalinks.com...
Earth's Grids - Typography - Crystalinks

i also found out that Portugal Spain is very volcanic and has a similar limestone base like Brazil.

en.wikipedia.org...:Volcanoes_of_Portugal
Category:Volcanoes of Portugal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

also found this that states Fatima Portugal is on an important ley line of the 40 th parrellel....and is implying that the four most important Marian apparitions were all connected to this.

The four major sites of purported Marian visions are ...

Fatima in Portugal,
Lourdes in France,
Medjugorje in Yugoslavia and
Akita, Japan.

Since the sites of the major Marian apparitions which became shrines contain numerous stories of miracles, paranormal experiences, levitations, strange sensory phenomena (oscillations and falls), rosaries turning into gold, manifestation of angelic beings and strange atmospheric marvels (luminous flashes of light), we conclude that the 40th parallel is a highly charged ley line of enormous psychic energy. Psychic energy is demonic in origin. Satan is the god of this world. He is capable of producing impressive achievements that masquerade as miracles of God. Why? He wants to deceive God's people in any way he can. He will even promote healing if it will hook the believer and move him unwarily into the world of the occult. Those pilgrims who have traveled to these shrines seeking experiences that are other worldly are doing so at their own jeopardy. The deeper into occult delusion they become, the less likely they will see or accept truth.

www.despatch.cth.com.au...
www.despatch.cth.com.au...


so as you can see there are many goelogical reasons that magnetism of the earth in that region is very strong when you look at the evidence. i could go into more detail but i dont want to stray to far from the main topic but i wanted to show you what i had found....

As for Fatima, well, the one thing I've realized with regard to the religious aspect is that it hasn't been particularly successful.

i completely disagree that it wasn't successful in sending a message to the masses. this event has led many people back to their faith and it is a accepted miracle according to the Catholic church. also as a result of this event was the fact that many Russians were converted to Christianity also.

i think millions of people were affected by the events of Fatima and the fact that we are here discussing this proves it.

Another major consideration is that nothing much has changed SINCE Fatima, what did it actually achieve? As far as I can see, apart from the kind of people I mentioned, it hasn't been something that the average person considers an instigation of communication between us and a higher (religious even) realm. It seems its only the curious minority who are even keeping its memory active today.

like i said before it did achieve the conversion of many to become Christians and renewed the faith of millions of others.

as far as the average person accepting this as a ' instigation of communication " i cant really answer that other than to say the average person that is alive today is too caught up in their own selfishness and greed to even consider these possibilty's and i also think that it maybe part of the "Great Deception" that is predicted in the Bible.

here are some links that cover the topic of the Great Deception....


www.abovetopsecret.com...
The Greatest Deception of Mankind, page 1

www.bibleufo.com...
The Bible UFO Connection - Bible Anomalies - The Great Deception - Text Version

It is obvious that some form of alien beings are interacting with the human race. The Bible declares that there are beings in space or the atmosphere of the earth that interact with men called angels, and demons.

The core message supposedly said by the alien beings that claim to come from another abode is always contrary to the teachings of Christianity. The basic message is that human beings will evolve into a higher state (like them) and their role is to help us evolve into this advanced state. This supports the theory that these beings are really fallen angels. Their real motive is to deceive mankind. In addition, they may also be trying to genetically alter the human species so Jesus cannot legally come as a son of Adam and be mankind's kinsman redeemer.

www.thepropheticyears.com...
Aliens from outer space or the great deception?











[edit on 19-8-2008 by easynow]

hi easynow, thanks for the reply.

First up, I'd have to disagree with you regarding 'Celestial secrets' considering that its part of a trilogy and there no definitive alien/UFO conclusion at all. In fact, having just finished reading the third book (which I highly recommend) its amazing how many ALTERNATIVE possibilities ARE considered instead.
Whether its earth influenced trance, alternate shaman like visions, multi-dimensional beings sharing our space, higher level earth dwelling psychic beings or delusions, Tesla type holographic hoaxes or aliens or religious figures, the one thing you can safely say about the Fatima trilogy is that it definitely does not push any answers.

The documents that the authors use are available through newspaper archives and the actual Fatima archive itself so theres no way ANY of the testimonies have been altered; the silence of the Catholic church also supports this conclusion as they would have ripped Frenandes to shreds by now if he had exaggerated original, recorded accounts.
What they DO show and call into question is the process where a one metre being, over time, became a 'lady' then finally 'Our Lady' which she never said she was and how by using a catholic artists sculpture at Fatima the image changed absolutely.

Thanks for the info re seismic occurances, its interesting that Brazil has dormant volcanoes but it still discounts the earth theory as the speculation is reliant upon actual eruptions and quakes in order to accomodate the physical cause of friction. We can't discount electro-magnetic influence and properties that may be too subtle for our current technology though.

Re: Religion and the Fatima influence, I accept that people see things differently but Fatimas influence is not one that impacts enough upon the world for me to see it as being very important in terms of world history or a contact scenario. Compare it to Columbus or Marco Polo and its whimper is all the more weak considering what it should have been capable of achieving if it was a contact from another realm.
Surely, if it was a religious, catholic dogma-safe apparition Mary would have been better off appearing to non-believers if she wanted to convert the world, not to the converted. I don't think its conversion rates can stand up to any major scrutiny as I don't see many Islamic, Buddhist or Hindu tours to Fatima or Lourdes. The same can be said of Medjegorje. Another recommended book is 'The Miracle Detective' btw.

I agree its difficult to see clarity when we look at this incident through our current worldview but maybe we need to see that another type of being may have totally different operating methods and may know that by opening us to possibilities of what reality may actually be, before our science can explain enough, it may be destructive and these things have to be prodded gently using images we know and are appropriate for the time...I don't know, I'm just pondering a technique that anthropologists use when contacting isolated tribes for the first time.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by irishdave]

reply to post by irishdave


thanks for your reply and your take on the books,

i have not read them so i cant say for sure that they are advocating this to be an Alien visit...but the common understanding i get from reading reviews and articles about the books indicate that they consider this to be a UFO /Alien encounter.

here is an example of a review that shows what i mean...

A Pleasure to Read
"The trilogy argues, quite convincingly, that the famous Fátima incident of 1917 ... did not actually involve a series of Marian apparitions (as is commonly accepted) but may in fact have been a sequence of extra-terrestrial encounters of a most unusual nature...Celestial Secrets...explores the supposed church 'cover-up' surrounding the matter, which the authors claim has both influenced the modern interpretation of the Fátima incident and concealed what may very likely be one of the first recorded cases of a 20th century alien encounter...The book left me convinced that indeed a church cover-up had occurred...the subject and the recorded events make for compelling reading in whatever context one wishes to interpret them."

www.anomalistbooks.com...
CELESTIAL SECRETS: The Hidden History of the Fátima Incident (UFO Book)

i guess i need to read the books but like i said so far it seems to me to be favoring the Alien encounter.


what better conspiracy can there be ?...lol

the church, religion, Aliens, UFO's.....makes a great selling book dont you agree ?

reply to post by easynow


All the volcanoes listed on Wikipedia are on the Atlantic ocean, in the Azores.

Madeira is on top of an extinct (or dormant) volcano.

There are no active or dormant volcanoes in continental Portugal, and there isn't even one (as far as I know) reference to volcanic activity in Portugal, the volcanoes are all extinct and highly eroded, some of them in the area just north of Lisbon.

Fátima does not have any volcano, even extinct, it's a limestone area (the Wikipedia page for limestone even has a Portuguese example, from a beach on that area), not a volcanic area, and an area with many natural caves.

easynow, what country are you in? I will gladly post you the books if you have difficulty getting them because I honestly believe they are essential reading for anyone interested, if only to read the original documents yourself even if you don't agree with the interpretation.

I completely understand that reviewers will say things like in your link; the first book of the trilogy certainly presents the case that something extraordinarily unearthly occured-most easily explainable as a UFO, but, the second book goes deeper and tears down the conventional rules as the authors show clippings from Portuguese newspapers actually predicting the apparitions, which is not something usually associated with UFO's at all. The second book also begins to consider physics, dimensions and alternate mind/ matter scenarios.
The final book is by far the most ambiguous as scientists from many disciplines all give possible explanations and only some are alien considerations.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by irishdave]

reply to post by ArMaP


thanks ArMaP,

yes i was doing a little research of the volcanic and geological aspects of Portugal and i did notice that wikipedia alluded to the fact that most of them were located in the Azores. isn't the Azores mostly Islands created from volcanic eruptions and lava flows ?

There are no active or dormant volcanoes in continental Portugal

thank you for that info because i was wondering about that and was having trouble determining if there were any active at this present time.

the information i was looking at was not clear on those facts

Fátima does not have any volcano, even extinct, it's a limestone area

yes i did read that it had a limestone base and it is very similar to what i read about Brazil, it too has no active volcano's and is mostly limestone and gypsum base.

there does seem to be tectonic plates in both places(Brazil&Portugal) that are moving or colliding with the sea basins and i believe this may cause some extra electromagnetism to be created in those spots.

and an area with many natural caves.

yes i did see some pictures of a few and i also read that they really didnt go extremely far into the earth.

very beautiful place and that Azores area is very amazing and eye catching for sure.

thanks for your help it is always appreciated kind sir...

reply to post by irishdave


hi irishdave,

i live in the U.S.A. and i dont think it would be a problem to find them here and i thank you for your offer

i guess i never read them because i have the feeling i already know what is in the books meaning i dont think i will be surprised by any of the research but i guess i am assuming to much and need to at least look at them.


one thing i find very very strange is the fact that i cannot find a picture of the drawing made by Lucia that depicted the entity.

when i first started looking into this case a long time ago i did find a drawing on the web that somebody had drawn, that had seen what Lucia sketched and i cant find it of course.

Pallashea was contributing to this thread at one time but has taken down the picture she scanned from the celestial secrets book that showed a drawing of the entity.

do you have anyway of scanning the picture and posting it ?



[edit on 19-8-2008 by easynow]

I'm not sure how to scan an image here; when I hit the button its asking me for an url; surely my document folder doesn't have one?
I can email it to you directly though, if thats any good?

[edit on 19-8-2008 by irishdave]

reply to post by irishdave


well i think you have to post on it photobucket or image shack and then post it in this thread.

photo bucket is free

photobucket.com...
Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

not sure how a scanner works but i think you have to open the file somehow so you can see the picture.

can you see the picture on your computer ?


DAVE>>>CHECK YOUR U2U BOX AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE

[edit on 19-8-2008 by easynow]

easynow,
Yeah, I have the image scanned onto my computer already but there's no way to paste it here. I'll join photobucket and then post a link I guess.

reply to post by irishdave


check the top of the page you will see that you have a U2U message from me


click on it for image posting instructions

Cool, thats a good scan too.

reply to post by irishdave


alrighty...good job !!!


thank you...been trying to figure out how to get that picture.

like i said earlier the one i saw a couple years ago on the web looked similar to that but had more detail of the clothing and her face. it was strange looking and if thats what the children saw i cant figure out how they weren't scared.

is it possible that dimensional beings would appear different then what they looked like when flesh and bone ?,....hmmm

i dont know but seeing that photo does make me think Alien.


any idea how this picture came about ?


did the authors of the book create it ?



[edit on 19-8-2008 by easynow]

easynow,

The drawing was made in the presence of and under instruction of Lucia herself after the first apparition. This pic is a facsimile of the original newspaper page and appeared in print 15 days after the FIRST apparition. So, it was well before any major church involvement and also months before the day of the 'miracle of the sun'.

As you can see in the print, the drawing was made by Claro Fangio with Lucia present.

Also, during this same intital parish enquiry Lucia states the beings response to where she came from was
"Her place is in the heavens."
I think thats fairly ambiguous and can be applied in religious terms of course but also in purely cosmological terms as well.
The other thing to remember is that people back then didn't think about aliens in the first place.