Fatima UFO coverup... proof that aliens are associated with religion

hmmmmmm. 20 000 witnesses and not one of them had a camera. seems like a myth to me

Originally posted by kennybubba
hmmmmmm. 20 000 witnesses and not one of them had a camera. seems like a myth to me

I take it you've not bothered to read the thread then.

reply to post by NamelessMonster


To elaborate on my last post, it might answer some questions about this incident and others, but I don't think the person behind that site asks enough questions about the extra terrestrials' motives and glosses over some of their questionable actions (and there might be other twisting to make them sound better). While it could answer questions about certain religious events and this one here, it brings up some more questions. I should probably make a separate thread for the "Daughters of Ma" discussion, but it won't let me start any threads until I have made more posts. If somebody that is interested could do that for me and link to it I would appreciate it. But it is very much related to the Fatima event.


[edit on 14-3-2010 by NamelessMonster]

[edit on 14-3-2010 by NamelessMonster]

Sorry to double post (It wouldn't let me edit my last post for some reason), but I found an interesting page that gives an alternate look at what the DOMA collective site said.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

I just realized that the "apparition" and the "Miracle of the Sun" did NOT happen in Fatima, they were both around three miles away in in the Cova da Iria fields. The title of "Our Lady of Fatima" was given given either because they thought it sounded better, or they wanted people to think there was a connection to Muhammad's daughter.




[edit on 2-4-2010 by NamelessMonster]

Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by merka
Where does it say that it was "witnessed by at least 60-70 thousand people"? My eyes are a little tired as its midnigt, but all I see is talk about a couple of girls seeing it.

Estimates of the number of witnesses range from 30,000-40,000 by Avelino de Almeida, writing for the Portuguese newspaper O Século, to 100,000, estimated by Dr. Joseph Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, both of whom were present that day.

from the Miracle of the Sun wikipedia entry.

Numbers from unqualified sources. Did the people enter thru gates that had attendants writing down the number of people passing through the gate(s)? I doubt it. It was probably an open field and people just arrived from all directions, in cars, on horseback, on foot. If there was no official counter(s), then any amount is suspect and may be nowhere as claimed by various sources.

Originally posted by easynow


this is the greatest ufo sighting of the 20th century


this ufo was witnessed by at least 60-70 thousand people. there was a silver disk sighted and an entity claiming to be the mother of the universe and the mother of Jesus.

to me this is undeniable proof that religion and ufo"s are related in some way.


www.ufoseek.org...
Vallee Says Fatima Event Was UFO


www.jerrypippin.com...
Fatima Apparition




i believe there was a huge cover up within the Vatican and the Goverments involved to downplay the incident

mypeoplepc.com...
Fatima and the Devil's Final Battle

it really seems as if this information has been surpressed because i cannot find many pictures of the incident. i once found a picture of a drawing that one of the girls made to describe what this entity looked like and the picture i saw did not resemble any pictures you would think of the Mother of Jesus(Mary). this drawing (wished i had saved it now ) looked like a alien entity to me. i am hoping someone knows what i am talking about and can find a picture of what she drew.

i am still looking for pics of this event and will post them when i can

No firm ground can be quoted as in 1918 UFOs were not in the mainstram language. What may have been witnessed will always be questionable. Was anyone actually quoted as saying that he/she/them/they saw a "silver disk"? Was anyone actually quoted as saying that he/she/them/they saw an "entity"? Was anyone actually quoted as saying that he/she/them/they heard the "entity"? claiming to be the "mother of the universe and the mother of Jesus"?

I highly doubt it for there is no historical evidence for a person named Jesus and the whole miraculous birth is a modern construction. And we're talking about jewish fictional characters, nothing to do with the rest of the inhabitants of planet earth.

Finally, as an (educated) atheist, I automatically think about atheists attending the event. With the religious zeal and atmosphere chances are there were no atheists present, possibly just those this side of atheism who did not go overboard with the only possible explanation. So, if there had been atheists present, what would they have seen, if anything?

No evidence has been presented on this thread to merit the title. The term "alien" is used too loosely with the posters/repliers acting on an act of faith. It's irrefutable evidence that counts, not empty words.

reply to post by easynow

Vallee Says Fatima Event Was UFO

Vallee was not there so whatever he wants to say about the event carries no authority weight, it's just his "uneducated" opinion.

reply to post by The Shrike

No firm ground can be quoted as in 1918 UFOs were not in the mainstram language. What may have been witnessed will always be questionable.

Was anyone actually quoted as saying that he/she/them/they saw a "silver disk"?
Was anyone actually quoted as saying that he/she/them/they saw an "entity"?
Was anyone actually quoted as saying that he/she/them/they heard the "entity"? claiming to be the "mother of the universe and the mother of Jesus"?

Actually if you read through the thread there are several eye witness accounts describing this event. Many fit into your list of questions.

reply to post by The Shrike


hello shrike,

No evidence has been presented on this thread to merit the title.

I'm not interested in the depth of your ignorance there has been plenty of evidence posted, in fact, a undeniable amount



maybe you should actually read the information that has been posted in this thread ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i like the part about the atheists and how shocked they were by the events that took place, how about you what's your favorite part ?





[edit on 2-4-2010 by easynow]

reply to post by NamelessMonster


It's interesting that the Catholic church opened an "interfaith" shrine after this happened. The "Mary" that these people saw was certainly not the Mary of the Bible, and even the title of "Woman of the Rosary" is not right, because the Rosary was an unbiblical addition carried over from pagan Goddess and fertility worship. (along with other attributes falsely applied to Mary) So, this means that it had to be some sort of trick (supernatural or otherwise) or it was something else that they were dealing with.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by NamelessMonster]

reply to post by PowerSlave


I appreciate quoted eye witness accounts. But how much store can be put on them? Not having points of reference (previous, similar events), one doesn't really know what was seen if anything. You can read whatever you want into the accounts but one doesn't know how peoples' minds were conditioned so someone saying "I see the virgin" might be supported by someone else who leans in that religious direction although they may have not seen anything.

Modern thoughts about a past event are colored by what has been presented particularly in movies/television. What about the instant drying? Was that in the movies only?

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by The Shrike

 

hello shrike,

No evidence has been presented on this thread to merit the title.

I'm not interested in the depth of your ignorance there has been plenty of evidence posted, in fact, a undeniable amount

maybe you should actually read the information that has been posted in this thread ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i like the part about the atheists and how shocked they were by the events that took place, how about you what's your favorite part ?

[edit on 2-4-2010 by easynow]

Hello to you also.

That thread has 14 pages and while I can access a Find feature I don't feel like doing it 14 times. It'd be better if you could quote.

My ignorance depends on irrefutable evidence.

Now, since I wasn't there I cannot have a viable opinion. Except, that there is no way that I can accept a religious explanation since religion is the result of mental conditioning. Since I'm not mentally conditioned religion doesn't exist within me.

Please quote an atheist that was there and said something to someone who recorded it accurately!

reply to post by The Shrike

That thread has 14 pages

"that thread" is this thread LOL



i linked you to ArMaP's post where he quoted an article that was written about the event and the news media outlet that published the story has a non clerical viewpoint. in other words, the story was reported by a "masonic anti-clerical news paper"

isn't that Atheist enough for you ?

is it too difficult to click that link i provided and read the information ? why should i post more links to try and accommodate you when you won't even look at it ? and if i may ask, what source would you and i agree to be, unbiased and accurate ?

since I wasn't there I cannot have a viable opinion

i can't say for sure what really happened because i wasn't there either but the basic story that was reported about the events, in my opinion cannot be easily dismissed unless someone wants to be in complete denial of the facts.




some of the basic facts about the incident...

The Miracle of the Sun (Portuguese: O Milagre do Sol) is an alleged miraculous event witnessed by 30,000 to 100,000 people on 13 October 1917 in the Cova da Iria fields near Fátima, Portugal. Those in attendance had assembled to observe what the Portuguese secular newspapers had been ridiculing for months as the absurd claim of three shepherd children that a miracle was going to occur at high-noon in the Cova da Iria on 13 October 1917.

According to many witness statements, after a downfall of rain, the dark clouds broke and the sun appeared as an opaque, spinning disc in the sky. It was said to be significantly less bright than normal, and cast multicolored lights across the landscape, the shadows on the landscape, the people, and the surrounding clouds. The sun was then reported to have careened towards the earth in a zigzag pattern, frightening some of those present who thought it meant the end of the world. Some witnesses reported that their previously wet clothes became "suddenly and completely dry."

Estimates of the number of witnesses range from 30,000-40,000 by Avelino de Almeida, writing for the Portuguese newspaper O Século, to 100,000, estimated by Dr. Joseph Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, both of whom were present that day.
en.wikipedia.org...

My ignorance depends on irrefutable evidence

there's no such thing as irrefutable evidence that will convince everyone, it's a misconception and a fallacy that plagues ufology. undeniable and irrefutable are subjective terms.


if you would like to tell us all what you think irrefutable evidence really is in regards to UFO and E.T.'s , then i personally would like to hear what you have to say and invite you to explain your viewpoint in this thread here.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by The Shrike

 

hello shrike,

No evidence has been presented on this thread to merit the title.

I'm not interested in the depth of your ignorance there has been plenty of evidence posted, in fact, a undeniable amount

maybe you should actually read the information that has been posted in this thread ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i like the part about the atheists and how shocked they were by the events that took place, how about you what's your favorite part ?

[edit on 2-4-2010 by easynow]

There must have been a computer glitch 'cause the first time I clicked on the link I wasn't taken to the same place where I was just taken, ArMaP's translation. So I read it. Obviously, the author was extra-religious. Obviously, the sun cannot move from its location or do anything claimed. What I see here is people looking at the sun, being blinded up to a point, and then the optical effects that result from temporary blindness. Similar to the autokinetic effect experienced in the dark where fixed lights (stars) are seen to move.

And I still say, and it is my right to an opinion, that the title of the thread does not reflect its intent. You have extremely religious people (read mentally conditioned by the catholic church who sells miracles to the easily conditioned) coming together to witness what they expect, all connected to catholic myth, so where is the "alien" connection?

reply to post by The Shrike

There must have been a computer glitch 'cause the first time I clicked on the link I wasn't taken to the same place where I was just taken, ArMaP's translation. So I read it.

ok

Obviously, the author was extra-religious

what part of nonclerical did you not understand ? the newspaper that reported the story was anti clerical.

Obviously, the sun cannot move from its location or do anything claimed.

nobody is saying the Sun danced or moved as reported allover the world, it was in that part of Portugal that the supernatural events took place and the people that were there watched it happen. are you calling all of them liars ?

What I see here is people looking at the sun, being blinded up to a point, and then the optical effects that result from temporary blindness. Similar to the autokinetic effect experienced in the dark where fixed lights (stars) are seen to move.

not likely to happen on a mass scale but if that explanation keeps you comfortable then that's ok with me, i am not going to try and persuade you.

And I still say, and it is my right to an opinion, that the title of the thread does not reflect its intent.

i never said you didn't have a right to your opinion and you can believe whatever you like but not everyone agrees with your viewpoint. the title of this thread obviously struck a nerve with you because you have done nothing but attack it.

how about my right to my opinion, am i supposed to respect your opinion but you don't have to respect mine ? my opinion is the Fatima events are undeniable proof that aliens are connected to religion in some way.

are you unable to respect the opinions of others and myself who think the title is justified ? or do we have to only respect your opinions ?

You have extremely religious people (read mentally conditioned by the catholic church who sells miracles to the easily conditioned) coming together to witness what they expect, all connected to catholic myth,

not everyone that was there and reported the same thing was a Catholic so that argument is not a very good one. sorry

so where is the "alien" connection?

www.ufoseek.org...

reply to post by easynow


Logic, common sense, reason; all missing from the post and your replies.

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by easynow

 

Logic, common sense, reason; all missing from the post and your replies.

funny i thought the same thing about what you posted ! LOL

it's amazing how you can just ignore the basic facts of the case

Originally posted by easynow

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by easynow

 

Logic, common sense, reason; all missing from the post and your replies.

funny i thought the same thing about what you posted ! LOL

it's amazing how you can just ignore the basic facts of the case

And what are the "facts" of the case? Everything centers around the catholic belief of the participants and controllers. Not a jewish event. Not a muslim event. Not a budhist event. Not a hindu event. Not an islam event. Not a shinto event. No druids were present. Strictly a catholic event and we know about the catholic religion. Not a worldwide event.

"The sun, whirling, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth" - Dr. Almeida Garrett, Professor of Natural Sciences at Coimbra University.

No scientific accounts exist of any unusual solar or astronomical activity during the time the sun was reported to have "danced."

No UFOs, no aliens.


[edit on 3-4-2010 by The Shrike]