The Mark of the Beast Identified

reply to post by ben91069


This will also mean the saints that were of before, the prophets that were beheaded will ask for this judgement and many other people during the last 2000 years that will probably have to wait. Then after that the Beast system that will come and use the beheading rule for the last generation, meaning the souls under the alter will wait a while till its all is done.

reply to post by Beachcoma


Well, as I said, it was ex-terrorist Walid Shoebat who said it was the bismillah. I agree with you that that would be something difficult for me to identify in the arabic you posted (thx BTW ). I thought it made much more sense in looking at the arabic for "allah."

Either way, I am not sure what I believe on this matter. Glad you found it interesting.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Dark Skies]

With a significant number of people on this planet waiting to be implanted with a chip or tattooed with some other mark, does it make sense for the beast to be that direct?

Does it really make sense to be that direct? The beast is rather tricky, much more subtle than that, much less obvious................

It makes more sense that he would start the process some 1600 years ago as is the case of changing the sabbath to Sunday or Friday...........

Boiling a frog and all that, don't you think.......................

Its pretty clear that one would need to refer to several translations to determine the exact meaning. By referring to those translations we find the term most often to be calculate the number.

Its clear who is dis informing based on no knowledge of the actual translations. Read all the replys and then check the actual text in various translations.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Hm. I'm not too sure about this. The mark is supposed to prevent commerce from anyone who does not have it. This leads some to believe it will be a microchip implanted inside the hand or forehead with banking and identification information.

whoa, whoa, whoa. You're jumping well ahead of yourself.

Commerce:
1 - transactions (sales and purchases) having the objective of supplying commodities (goods and services)
2 - social exchange, especially of opinions, attitudes, etc.

Also, remember the commandments:
The First Commandment
"I Am the Lord your God…..you shall have no other gods before me."

The Second Commandment
"You shall make no graven image or any likeness of anything in heaven or earth, nor bow down to any such thing." This is derived from the first commandment and leaves no doubt about what God thinks of false idols.

The Tenth Commandment
"You shall not covet anything which is your neighbours."

If you take all of these into consideration I think you develop an over-all idea.
Hold no physical item in a higher regard than God. Greed is futile.

Today, we can conduct literally NO commerce without money - and of course most money - be it coins or paper - contains graven images. Many view money as power and live and work only for the benefit of greater wealth.

I believe the REAL mark of the beast is currency and our world's acceptance of it as the driving force behind society. Money is idolized by all. Money is the root of all evil and breeds greed.

I think portraying the mark of the beast as some sort of microchip is missing the point of the microchip. As long as there is money, there will be other forms of payment other than "charge". "Cash" payment will always exist - whether in money, precious metals, or jewels. I think Currency is the real corporate.

Originally posted by Illahee
Its pretty clear that one would need to refer to several translations to determine the exact meaning. By referring to those translations we find the term most often to be calculate the number.

Its clear who is dis informing based on no knowledge of the actual translations. Read all the replys and then check the actual text in various translations.

Here's a great source for comparing nearly all New and Old Testament translations. This site allows a student to analyze any verse against other translations on the same page. Also, there is a feature which allows the analysis of the Greek or Hebrew, depending on the language used in the original texts.

Here it is
www.blueletterbible.org...

Question to the OP:

Seventh Day Adventist, or Worldwide Church of God offshoot?

Regardless, I'll refute, and I'll even use the Bible to do it.

The Law of Moses (which the Ten Commandments are a part of) was given to the children of Israel. This Law consisted of 613 commandments: the "Written Law" given on two tablets of stone and the "Oral Law" consisting of 603 commandments. All of it is considered the Mosaic Law. You cannot pick and choose from the Mosaic Law (Galatians 5:3). If you believe we must keep the 4th Commandment for salvation, then we are obligated to obey the entire Mosaic system, which included sacrifices, offerings, circumcision, incense, year of Jubilee, New Moons, etc.

A lot of Sabbatarian cults demand Sabbath observance, not to mention strict tithing (first second and third tithes) but what of the New Moons sacrifices? Or the ceremony of the wave sheaf?

To make it even clearer, Paul in Col. 2:14-17 makes the fact that the Mosaic Law is dead very plain:

"having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

To claim that the day someone chooses to worship is the mark of the beast is not only ludicrous, it's downright laughable.

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by AshleyD


Today, we can conduct literally NO commerce without money - and of course most money - be it coins or paper - contains graven images. Many view money as power and live and work only for the benefit of greater wealth.

I believe the REAL mark of the beast is currency and our world's acceptance of it as the driving force behind society. Money is idolized by all. Money is the root of all evil and breeds greed.

I was taught that the money itself is not evil. You know, "Money is the root of all evil"? I think it's being misquoted. I do believe it's "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil".

I know, it's a small thing. But, I've thought about this one a lot.
(I jokingly used to say that Alan Greenspan HAD to be the devil because he was in charge of the value of all the money standards in the world, by way of the worth of a dollar)
As far as the mark of the beast, I think, personally, that we can have a thousand different ways to point at it and it may be one of a bazillion things that escape our attention.

Cuhail

Originally posted by The time lord
QUTOE: Nope. 'The Beast' is an ancient judaic 'code' word for the Emperor of Rome actually. Nothing more. It has no relevence today at all.


-------------------------------

Even if that is so, the last empire as predicted in the book of Daniel will consist of a last Empire maybe situated in Europe as the Iron is known symbolically as Rome but this time mixed with clay, but they do not mix.
So its going to be a future European empire with maybe some other empire like the Middle East that will form it.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by The time lord]

Huh? Errmmm...nope - the 'Beast' of the 'Book of Revelation' pertains only to the ANCIENT roman emperor - no-one else. No-one to come, either in Europe or anywhere else. Biblical scholars long ago discovered it's true meaning. And the Jewish and Christian religious leaders of the time knew what it meant too.

The confusion that is evident in this thread is, historically speaking, only a very recent development.

J.

Originally posted by Dark Skies
reply to post by jimbo999

 

Should I trust my own research and that of biblical scholars and archeologists I trust...or you?

What to do?

Trust the work of REPUTABLE biblical scholars and archeologists - and of me too. I would not be making these statements if I hadn't purloined the information FROM those same reputable sources There are plenty of crackpots and crazies on the Net claiming to 'know' all about the origins of the Bible - New or Old - but for the most part they are woefully ignorant of the current state of research on the subject - IF they've even bothered looking into the research that is. Stick with the people with VERIFIBLE university positions at reputable institutions and you can't go wrong....


J.

Originally posted by jimbo999

Originally posted by Dark Skies
reply to post by jimbo999

 

Should I trust my own research and that of biblical scholars and archeologists I trust...or you?

What to do?

Trust the work of REPUTABLE biblical scholars and archeologists - and of me too. I would not be making these statements if I hadn't purloined the information FROM those same reputable sources

There are plenty of crackpots and crazies on the Net claiming to 'know' all about the origins of the Bible - New or Old - but for the most part they are woefully ignorant of the current state of research on the subject - IF they've even bothered looking into the research that is. Stick with the people with VERIFIBLE university positions at reputable institutions and you can't go wrong....


J.

In all due respect, you have yet to give a single source reference and, accordingly, your opinion stands only as...well, your opinion.

Also, university opinions are often the opinions of liberal atheists, not open-minded academics.

But you can solve all of that by telling us who to look to for good research. That way, we can use the www to check them out as to their reliability.

You are obviously an atheist and that's OK by me. Some of my best friends are atheists.

But I sure would appreciate a little steak with that sizzle.

reply to post by tyranny22


Money in itself is not evil. Jesus had a job, paid government taxes, and paid the temple taxes. Therefore, He had money. The apostles also had jobs and paid taxes. So they had money. It's the love of money that is evil as well as putting it over God.

So, to say the commercial systems in all nations are "evil" is half true. Many governments and corporations exploit the people for money. But that is neither here nor there at the moment although it is disheartening. John is referring to a specific one world market in the last days and some sort of future system for controlling it. It could be a chip, tattoo, or something else entirely. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Dark Skies

Originally posted by jimbo999

Originally posted by Dark Skies
reply to post by jimbo999

 

Should I trust my own research and that of biblical scholars and archeologists I trust...or you?

What to do?

Trust the work of REPUTABLE biblical scholars and archeologists - and of me too. I would not be making these statements if I hadn't purloined the information FROM those same reputable sources

There are plenty of crackpots and crazies on the Net claiming to 'know' all about the origins of the Bible - New or Old - but for the most part they are woefully ignorant of the current state of research on the subject - IF they've even bothered looking into the research that is. Stick with the people with VERIFIBLE university positions at reputable institutions and you can't go wrong....


J.

In all due respect, you have yet to give a single source reference and, accordingly, your opinion stands only as...well, your opinion.

Also, university opinions are often the opinions of liberal atheists, not open-minded academics.

But you can solve all of that by telling us who to look to for good research. That way, we can use the www to check them out as to their reliability.

You are obviously an atheist and that's OK by me. Some of my best friends are atheists.

But I sure would appreciate a little steak with that sizzle.

Atheist? Me? Well of course! Proudly so

Steak? Ok, chew on this to begin with. We'll start with the basics if that's ok?

www.amazon.com...

www.pocm.info...

books.google.com... g7Fs#PPA61,M1

muse.jhu.edu...

eprints.rhul.ac.uk...

www.oxfordscholarship.com...

countrybookshop.co.uk...

www.oxfordscholarship.com...

fds.oup.com...

That's just a tiny tip of a gigantic iceburg. There are, of course, hundreds of thousands more scholarly works, papers and books on the origins of Christianity out there. A word of warning though - if you are a devout believer, this may not be for you - you may find it somewhat shocking.

But then I believe 'Deny Ignorance' is the credo of ATS; and if that is indeed the case, then the experts need to have their say - do you not think?

J.

reply to post by jimbo999


Heheh...the truth is not an opinion. It must be sought diligently with an open mind. I am not afraid of it...are you?

Is your mind still open...or is it made up?

reply to post by jimbo999


BTW Jimbo...one of those articles has to do with Marion apparitions.

I just might agree to the extent this article and you are suggesting syncretitistic goddess worship. Athena, Diana, Semiramus ...et al.

I realize this is a complicated issue. Don't underestimate folks that are only guilty of disagreeing with you.

You and I are both right...and wrong.

The point is...are we open-minded enough and tough enough to seek the truth where ever it might lead.

I have no preconceived notions...what about you?

reply to post by BlaznRob


So you set Paul above Jesus?

Matt 5:

" 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. "

What words does Paul change? Perhaps you misunderstand Pauls intent.......

Paul can not change the law, nor did Jesus.............

Paul is talking about the stupid traditions of man, not the LAW of Moses.




[edit on 29-1-2008 by heliosprime]

Originally posted by Dark Skies
reply to post by jimbo999

 

BTW Jimbo...one of those articles has to do with Marion apparitions.

I just might agree to the extent this article and you are suggesting syncretitistic goddess worship. Athena, Diana, Semiramus ...et al.

I realize this is a complicated issue. Don't underestimate folks that are only guilty of disagreeing with you.

You and I are both right...and wrong.

The point is...are we open-minded enough and tough enough to seek the truth where ever it might lead.

I have no preconceived notions...what about you?

None whatsoever - I simply go where logic and truth lead me. Afraid? Heh! Nope. Not at all. Yes, it's a complicated subject; which is why I refer you to people who have spend most of their adult lives studying the subject If the big JC popped out of the clouds tommorow at the 7-11 by my house, that would go some way to convincing me - I do, however, have serious doubts that that will ever happen. Let's just say the odds are VERY, to astronomically, poor!

J.

Originally posted by Dark Skies
reply to post by jimbo999

 

Heheh...the truth is not an opinion. It must be sought diligently with an open mind. I am not afraid of it...are you?

Is your mind still open...or is it made up?

No, you're right. The truth is NOT an opinion - it's either reality, or it isn't. To date, christianity is still just a 'belief'. Or to be a little more diplomatic, I'll use your wording - an 'opinion'.

J.

Originally posted by jimbo999

None whatsoever - I simply go where logic and truth lead me. Afraid? Heh! Nope. Not at all. Yes, it's a complicated subject; which is why I refer you to people who have spend most of their adult lives studying the subject

If the big JC popped out of the clouds tommorow at the 7-11 by my house, that would go some way to convincing me - I do, however, have serious doubts that that will ever happen. Let's just say the odds are VERY, to astronomically, poor!

J.

Actually the first to "pop out of the clouds" as ou say will be the false christ demanding worship and offering "rapture" of his faithful. The idea Jesus will return any minute is part of the lie. Many, many signs must happen including the anti-christ before Jesus stops the insanity once and forever..............

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by jimbo999

None whatsoever - I simply go where logic and truth lead me. Afraid? Heh! Nope. Not at all. Yes, it's a complicated subject; which is why I refer you to people who have spend most of their adult lives studying the subject

If the big JC popped out of the clouds tommorow at the 7-11 by my house, that would go some way to convincing me - I do, however, have serious doubts that that will ever happen. Let's just say the odds are VERY, to astronomically, poor!

J.

Actually the first to "pop out of the clouds" as ou say will be the false christ demanding worship and offering "rapture" of his faithful. The idea Jesus will return any minute is part of the lie. Many, many signs must happen including the anti-christ before Jesus stops the insanity once and forever..............

Heheh...Oh Dear!.... I'm quite terrfied! Really, you people need to find some other thing to do with all your spare time. Spreading childish fairytales is very wasteful - unless of course your name is Grimm, Andersson, or perhaps Lewis Carrol. If so, you should look into a good book deal - I can even recommend an agent for you.

J.