The Mark of the Beast Identified

reply to post by heliosprime


Oh, pish-tosh. So people should only "worship" on a given day? Next question: how will you, yes, little ol' you, define worship? Religions are responsible for a lot of pain in this world. Let's drop all the differences between people. White, red, black, blue, grey, whatever your senses will tell you makes a person "different". Now let's look deeply with a loving heart and acceptance and perhaps a healthy dose of self forgiveness and find common ground. The humans already have the technology to feed everyone, but we hoard. It's all for sale, but if a person doesn't have the do-re-mi, they go hungry. The Pope shoud take that golden chalice that he piously holds up at Christmas mass... and put it on ebay, take the $$ and buy a few sandwiches for people less fortunate. It's time to wake up, humans. It's only one person, one world, One Life.

So you set Paul above Jesus?

Matt 5:

" 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. "

What words does Paul change? Perhaps you misunderstand Pauls intent.......

Paul can not change the law, nor did Jesus.............

Paul is talking about the stupid traditions of man, not the LAW of Moses.

Ok, I'll bite.

Firstly, I'm not setting Paul above Christ. But a question for you: Are you setting one part of the Bible over another part? Isn't it supposed to all be "The inspired word of God?" Use the Bible to understand the Bible.

Regardless, here's rebuttal to your comments.

- Romans 3:19-22 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

So the Law was given why? To make man conscious of sin. And notice: righteousness does NOT come from observing the law. So how does it come?

- Romans 3: 21-22 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Really man, read the versus YOU quoted. "shall in no wise pass...till all be fulfilled..." & "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill..."

Notice that Galatians says the law was "added because of transgressions TILL the seed should come to whom the promise was made." Now it's crystal clear that the law had an end just as it had a beginning. "IT WAS ADDED...TILL THE SEED SHOULD COME." When the seed came (Christ), the law came to an end.

Why was it ended? Because NOONE can keep the law. (John 7:19) It's absolutely impossible. And if you try to keep ANY of the law, you are bound by ALL of the law, thereby if you break ANY 'jot or tittle' of the law (any of the 613 commandments of the Mosaic law) you have failed (James 2:10), and will be judged by the law. The law demands perfect obedience your whole life, or your guilty and eternally punished. Period. No chance of redemption. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

In closing, I'll boil it down:

1) Noone can keep the law (John 7:19)
2) If you bind yourself to any of the law, you're bound by all of it. (James 2:10)
3) The law does not save, it condemns (Rom. 3:19)
4) The law shall not pass away until it is fulfilled (Matt 5:18)
5) Christ came to fulfill the law (Matt 5:17)
6) Christ fulfilled the law (John 17:4) (John 19:30)
7) Man is nolonger under the law. (Romans 10:4) (Romans 8:2) (Romans 8:6) (Gal.5:4) (Gal. 5:18) (Acts 15:24-25)

Originally posted by pavlovsdog
No, this is not 7th Day Adventist.

This is 'Living Church of God'

In its Official Statement of Fundamental BeliefsOff-site Link on its Web site, the church says its mission includes: "To preach the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ to all nations as a witness" and "to preach the end-time prophecies and to warn the English-speaking nations and all the world of the coming Great Tribulation."

This church has been identified as a Theological Christian Cult by

www.apologeticsindex.org/

Perhaps you also remember the story of mass murderer Terry Ratzman? In 2005 he walked into his church in Milwaukee and killed 7 people during services. It was a Living Church of God.

Who cares what the name is ? the whole idea is like something out of the 15th century. People love to go and scour the bible finding the best doom and gloom theories they can come up with, unfortunately they fail to concentrate on who is important.

Famous example is, Paul said this and Paul said that... so ? Paul didnt exactly share Jesus' beliefs you know ? Which one do you choose ?
Jesus spoke of a church made of living stones, Paul spoke of the bride of christ, his precious church(s) made of stone which he controlled.

Lets not forget, Jesus never respected the Sabbath in the way you are referring to. He either went to teach them or he didnt go at all, he never sat an listened to the jewish priests on a sabbath. He even healed and saved sheep on the sabbath which was apparently a no-no.

I am seriously considering becoming a priest so I can infiltrate churches and shed some light on the darkness going on inside there. Might even kick over some of the money changers while im in there!




[edit on 30-1-2008 by mortalengine]

[edit on 30-1-2008 by mortalengine] - Made loads of spelling mistakes, sorry im at work >,<

[edit on 30-1-2008 by mortalengine]

reply to post by BlaznRob


John 15:
"9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. "

Rev 22:

"12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

The commandments........the law even applies AFTER Christ returns.

No one is perfect in the eyes of GOD but Jesus his son........so Jesus came to die for OUR sins..........he makes us perfect in the eyes of is father.

Man will always fail to keep the law, but must strive to do so, and our failures will be forgiven, IF we seek to keep the commandments.........

Keeping the Sabbath and the holy days is OUR proof we are trying.

Just to say no one can keep the law so therefore throw out the law is silly......it is a trick of satan "no one is perfect so why try?"

Just to sit back and call on Christ and ignore the law is to defy Jesus teachings. On judgment day Jesus says "I know them not"

Originally posted by mortalengine

Lets not forget, Jesus never respected the Sabbath in the way you are referring to. He either went to teach them or he didnt go at all, he never sat an listened to the jewish priests on a sabbath. He even healed and saved sheep on the sabbath which was apparently a no-no.


[edit on 30-1-2008 by mortalengine]

[edit on 30-1-2008 by mortalengine] - Made loads of spelling mistakes, sorry im at work >,<

[edit on 30-1-2008 by mortalengine]

Jesus kept the sabbath correctly, it was the stupid traditions of man he ignored. The ones the priests put on the people for the will of the priests.........no the will of GOD...........

[edit on 30-1-2008 by heliosprime]

reply to post by AshleyD


I understand your references and respect your opinions. But, I have to disagree.

I don't think that George Bush invaded Iraq to free it's people. As we turn our eyes to Iran, we've got to ask ourselves something: "What's this about?" "Is this really about nuclear weapons?" Because most of the world agrees that Iran is not trying to develop nuclear weapons. So, why threaten and sanction Iran?

In todays world economy even threats = money. Simply threatening Iran on the world stage drives up oil prices. This whole middle east fiasco isn't about seeding democracy. It's about lining pockets.

The world is driven by money. Money is the culprit behind much of the worlds aggravations such as war, theft, and murder.

I just think that looking for an actual mark or tattoo or microchip is kinda like not seeing the forest for the trees.

reply to post by tyranny22


The whole "middle east" thingy is about setting up a nuclear showdown with Iran so the "anti-christ" can save mankind..............

Israel will torch Iran and Syria.............That means all of Israel not just Judea..........

reply to post by mortalengine


Please do not join the priesthood.
Ask JESUS(JESHUA) to forgive you and save you, not a man.



[edit on 30-1-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Dark Skies
reply to post by jimbo999

 

Should I trust my own research and that of biblical scholars and archeologists I trust...or you?

What to do?

You should trust no man other than yourself. Whatever you find is God's will.

quoting from the catholic new jerusalem bible concerning genesis 2:2-3

the sabbath(shabbat) is of Divine institutionn that day G-D Himself rested(shabat).even at the creation G-D set an example which MUST be followed,exodus 20:11;31:17 it is a sign between Me and the sons of israel forever.

the catholic scholars admit this truth yet refuse to keep shabbat

and quoting from my understanding:romans 11 paul shows that gentiles are viewed by G-D as israelites when they become genuine followers of the Messiah.

reply to post by yahn goodey


sorry for the face--i didn't put it there ---a glitch?--no idea !

reply to post by yahn goodey


That's neat!

Knowing a bit of Greek, or simply having a Strong’s concordance handy can be of great help in understanding what the Bible actually says.

For example, "Commandments" in the New Testament almost always means something more than the Decalogue (Ten Commandments).

When John speaks of the Mosaic Law or the Ten Commandments, he always uses the Greek word for law which is "nomos." When he speaks about the teachings or instructions of Jesus he uses "entole." John 15:14 is referring to the commandments (ie: “entole”) of Jesus, not the O.T. Law.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. (KJV)
John 14:15 If you love me, you will obey what I command. (NIV)

Sabbatarian cults often use only the King James version, because in translation many words are translated into the same word in English, when they shouldn’t be.

reply to post by tyranny22


First of all, I agree with you about the Iraq fiasco. Not so much the Iran predicament but the war in Iraq I no longer defend like I once did. However, this is apples and oranges.

We both agree that money is the root of all evil. We both agree that what is going on is probably all based on money. We both agree the Bible warns us against the love of money and tyrannical governments. This is all true.

But John switches focus and says no one can buy or sell without this "mark." If we are saying money is this mark then we would in essence be saying no one could buy or sell without money. Well, that obviously makes sense. I don't see planet earth being degraded to a bartering system with clam shells any time soon.

It is of utter importance to know that we have not yet reached this future time when such a thing will be implemented. It would be folly to look at something going on in the world today and claim it is the mark. Just like we have some people thinking they're the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation or that the Dome of the Rock is supposed to represent the Jewish temple and the "abomination of desolation." All of these "fulfillments" are being forced.

Now, I cannot say you are absolutely wrong. You cannot say I am absolutely wrong. Because, we're not at this point. This marking system is not supposed to be implemented until the Antichrist arises. This has not happened yet. So to say money or commercial systems in general are the fulfillment of this is jumping to conclusions. It has not been fulfilled yet because this is something the Antichrist is supposed to do.

reply to post by AshleyD



Ashley, I am wondering. You believe the mark is connected to the monetary system. The bible states that everyone will be forced to accept this mark and that you cannot buy or sell without it.

The problem I have with the mark being taken as a literal one is that if you can find one situation that disqualifies the scenario in which you are basing this upon, then it cannot be the mark.

For example, if "everyone" must have the mark in order to buy and sell, then that means it will be mandatory for even backwoods South American indigenous tribes, which do not rely on any standard monetary system that we know of whatsoever. It would be quite meaningless to force it on them as a forced system of worship and difficult to implement.

Remember, "everyone" is a lot of people. Think how difficult it is to implement everyone having an ID card, like a drivers license then ask how it could be done with not only the US population, but every man woman and child on the entire earth, even a child born outside the grasps of the system.

I highly doubt that a micro-chip or economic system is the true mark, but can certainly be a false one to lead people away from its true meaning.

reply to post by ben91069


The way I see it, is that the commercial system is only one part of the "beast's system." There will be government, commercial, religious, and political aspects of this "mark." We are told it symbolizes an allegiance to the Antichrist's system as well as the ability to buy and sell. So let's say these isolated tribes are somehow required to take a mark. Again, we do not know if it is a chip, tattoo, or something else entirely. I'm one of the few who says we cannot know until it comes and it will not come until the rise of the Antichrist. For some reason everyone thinks they have it all figured out. I admit that I do not. But I do believe we will know it when we see it. They might have to swear allegiance to the Antichrist and take the mark (let's pretend it is a microchip just for this discussion) in order to be tracked for political and religious purposes even though they so not use cash in their society.

Originally posted by AshleyD
The way I see it, is that the commercial system is only one part of the "beast's system." There will be government, commercial, religious, and political aspects of this "mark." We are told it symbolizes an allegiance to the Antichrist's system as well as the ability to buy and sell.

But, doesn't that pretty much summarize the way the world has always been organized? Is not the world itself already set up as the "beast system", whether or not it needs a micro-chip?

I know it seems to many that they are just waiting for the "head" to show and take on the role, anti-christ. But this is not true because it means everyone else can worship the beast system without consequence, until the anti-christ shows up, then anyone who follows him and takes the mark is doomed.

In other words, if this system is so bad, so terrible why is it that we use it daily but if someone stands to claim that it is an allegiance to them and they are the easily recognized "anti-christ", then it becomes evil??

This makes no sense.

The bible clearly states who the anti-christ is;

1John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

With this, the anti-christ is the spirit that denies Christ, and the spirit only. Because a same spirit can be in many people, the anti-christ can be many people making up a large system. If you keep looking to find one "anti-christ", then you will be deceived.

At the end of the day the Bible is not so much about proof but faith in all it's angles really. There is worldly evidence of Biblical places and ancient empires but that is not enough to prove God exists or the universe. So you still have to go by faith, The Book of Revelations is not about the past but the future and end time judgements. If people say its something else and it's in a 50/50 balance still in what you believe which at the end of the day that is what God wants, for you to decide by faith what you believe when people will go against that. Jesus in the Gospel speaks about the end times, it's not like the book of Revelations is the only book that does, a third of the Bible is about prophecy. Could it have dual meanings to it? Is it in it self a book that covers different things all at the same time like the Bible code in Hebrew texts could it have matrix type interpretations as well as the literal?


www.biblegateway.com...

Hebrews 11

By Faith

1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.
3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

5By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him

reply to post by ben91069


Remember though, the Bible distinguishes clearly between the spirit of Antichrist and the Antichrist. We are told the "Spirit of Antichrist already exists in the world" and has been in the world ever since the fall of grace and even before the life of Jesus. This refers to the general hatred of God and His people. It also includes those who, after Jesus' life and death, deny Jesus' existence and position. We are told that although the "Spirit of Lawlessness/Antichrist" is already at work, the "Man of Lawlessness/Antichrist" will be an actual person who embodies this spirit with vigor.

Daniel, Paul, Peter, John, etc. all make it clear there will be one single specific person who will appear on the scene to head this "beast." This individual is repeatedly referred to as a human being, given human descriptions, and will have human characteristics. This is why people have been looking for a specific Antichrist for years. Because the Bible makes it clear it will be an actual person. We are only in the time line where the stage is being set.



[edit on 1/30/2008 by AshleyD]

One theory is that if the Devil can in his realm decieve and make people evil and become worse sinners all at the same time then to get the mark it would probably be the same thing in power. The devil can decieve the whole world so the whole world getting a mark at the same time is a connection of its power. Spirit of Anti-Christ maybe?

For all we know our bodies contain enough foreign materials to create it's microchip, it may even grow on its self. The anti-Christ will not need to deploy a massive sweep of every person on earth even those hidden in caves and desserts because it will inbed it self in a supernatural way.
The 144,000 will get theirs from God, which will not involve God making an IBN contract to do so. This end time leader will have Godly powers, so why would he need an operation to get people to accept some type of micro chip inplant, he may just do the same super natural thing but we have a choice to do so? But the current trend in accepting ID card and inplants as a good social acceptance may make people persuaded when the time comes, everyone likes a tatoo, well in growing numbers.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by The time lord]