Interesting Place to Find a Masonic Obelisk

Originally posted by HooHaa
I thought freemasons trace there lineage back to Solomons temple? If that is true, then that puts them back to the time of the pyramids.

Umm...Unless I'm mistaken (and I so very rarely am), I believe that the pyramids were built between 2600 and 1800 BC.

King Solomon's Temple was completed in 10 AD.

Also doesnt freemasonry place alot of value on symbols and symboism? The more hidden in plain site the more power the symbol has? So they wouldnt admit or confess to placing an obilisk or any other symbol or it would reduce its power.

Where did that little bit of illogic come from?

I dont pretend to know any mason secrets nor do I claim to be a conspiracy master. But I do find it coincidental that they chose that particular monument for that site.

Well ... as I mentioned before, the monument was most likely built by the Army Corps of Engineers, and it was built at a historical monument by an act of Congress. So, as far as "coincidence" goes, you're waaaaaaaaay off.

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by HooHaa

I thought freemasons trace there lineage back to Solomons temple? If that is true, then that puts them back to the time of the pyramids. Atleast some of them.

Only in an allegorical sense. There is no proven connection between Specualtive Masonry, which is the form practiced today, to Ancient Operative Masonry which would have been exercised by the Egyptian pyramid builders.

Also doesnt freemasonry place alot of value on symbols and symboism?

In so much that we value the esoteric aspects of some symbols and their ability to aid in the presentation of our degrees and ritual work.

The more hidden in plain site the more power the symbol has?

This is a new theory to me. Would you care to explain how you might have arrived at this conclusion?

So they wouldnt admit or confess to placing an obilisk or any other symbol or it would reduce its power.

Masons openly and freely admit to any type of participation in the erection and dedication of public structures. The ceremony invloved is available for all to witness and enjoy and there is no reason to maintain any type of secrecy in that regard.

I dont pretend to know any mason secrets nor do I claim to be a conspiracy master.

There really are not that many and all are sadly available in numerous forms of media.

But I do find it coincidental that they chose that particular monument for that site.

That is a rather interesting logical fallacy that you have comitted in that statement. There is no indication that Masons were involved with the dedication or erection of the Trinity Mememorial nor had anything whatsoever to do with its placement. To imply or infer otherwise is simply not truthful.

Originally posted by mmmeat
King Solomon's Temple was completed in 10 AD.

Meat, just a small correction. The original Temple of Solomon is historically dated to aproximately the 8th to 10th century BC. Which still puts its construction far after the pyramids.

The second temple was completed around the 5th or 6th century BC and subsequently detroyed by the Emepror Titus in 70 AD.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Sorry guys, but I'm no Layman, that's an obelisk...




I think this is the guy that paid for the Obelisk...

Maj. Gen. FrederickThorlin

I wonder if he was a Freemason?

Edit:
Found another picture or two of him with Johnson and JFK from
June 5, 1963, five months before the Assasination...




Trinity, the name was given the site supposedly by Oppenheimer himself, I suppose that has no Masonic symbolism either, or the 33 lattitude it sits near, which is oddly known since the Spanish conquistadors as the path of death or some such, but an Obelisk at this site?

[edit on 21-1-2008 by twitchy]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Meat, just a small correction. The original Temple of Solomon is historically dated to aproximately the 8th to 10th century BC. Which still puts its construction far after the pyramids.

The second temple was completed around the 5th or 6th century BC and subsequently detroyed by the Emepror Titus in 70 AD.

You are, of course, correct (gee ... a Mason that knows the history of Solomon's Temple, who'da thought?:lol.

I did go with the second Temple, rather than the first, because the first Temple was only about a thousand years away, and that might have confused the antis.

Your pal,
Meat.

reply to post by twitchy


I dont get what you find masonic in this twitchy?

I saved the pics and enlarged them so`s I could take a closer look and also read the plaques and still can find nothing,although the pic of the obelisk/Cairn (whatever?) I couldn`t read because of the poor resolution.The pic of the sign says nothing referring to masons and shows nothing masonic as in emblems.

The way I see it is, what would be the best way to mark this spot other than whats there already?.

What would you expect to be there instead? an X marks the spot? maybe so but wouldn`t imo be as noticeable and harder to take a decent picture of for the general public,and a sign isn`t going to last as long as a pile of stones.

Even if there was a masonic emblem on these markers,would that mean that masons had a hand on building WMD`s or would it say they built the marker?

If you have reason or info to believe or even suspect this other than a pile of rocks in a pic I`d like to have a read,because I have never heard this said before.

I did a bit of a search and the closest I could find to a link between masons and atomic weapons was here half way down the page under #18,dont flame me when you see the page because Ike is mentioned in association with it,I`m not a subscriber of Ike or shape shifting reptiles etc,though doesn`t mean there is some snippets of info which is correct.

Even if that is true? its still no proof that freemasonry had a hand in developing atomic weapons,one could only say that "possibly a mason did", more than a marker of the spot of first detonation with no masonic emblems etc anyway.

Truman a 33rd could too easily be compared to that Michael Richards guy another 33rd in that a mason dosen`t represent the whole of masonry etc because even masons here were clearly out spoken and disgusted with him,also atomic weapons to a lot of people (not mine)is a necessary evil,which Truman could have believed.


But thats not to say imo that a group could go unnoticed within the network of freemasonry and can be used for added secrecy and contacts in shaping this world for nefarious elitist goals.

Originally posted by gps777
reply to post by twitchy

 

What would you expect to be there instead? an X marks the spot?

Yeah, I should have totally expected there to be a great stone phallic representaion of the Egyptian God Osirus there on a US military installation and National Monument, you're right, my bad.

Solomons temple was created long before 10 bc... The fall of Isreal to the babylonians who sacked Solomons temple was 400 to 500 years BC. Then came the Medes and Persians then the Greeks then the Romans in wich time Christ was born and marked 1BC and 1AD.

Originally posted by twitchy
What would you expect to be there instead? an X marks the spot?

Yeah, I should have totally expected there to be a great stone phallic representaion of the Egyptian God Osirus there on a US military installation and National Monument, you're right, my bad.

Sorry twitchy but does every monument of this type have to be "phallic"? Or could it be the easiest design by amateur architects?

I'm looking at this from the outside and I'm just not seeing it.

Edit: Fixed BB code YET again.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by intrepid]

AugustusMasonicus

I got the hidden in plain site theory from reading the layout of Washington DC. One of the articles claimed that inorder for a symbol to have its desired effect or power it was to be hidden. If it ws hidden in plain site of everyone but went unnoticed it had even more power. Thats why the street laqyout was done the way it. Everyone sawit on a daily basis but it went unnoticed except to the trained eye. Now if this is true or not I have no idea. I was just referring to wat I have read. Again I make no claims to know anything concerning masons and or there symbols.

To reply to another questions as to why I thought it parcular that they chose a monolith at that site. Why did they? Why not just a plaq or a billboard or countless other items they use at historical sites? Why the monolith? It does make one wonder and yes your right I dobnt have any proof and Im just speculating but your reply in no way answers my question.

Originally posted by intrepid
Sorry twitchy but does every monument of this type have to be "phallic"? Or could it be the easiest design by amateur architects?

I'm looking at this from the outside and I'm just not seeing it.

"easiest design by amateur architects?"
LOL Yeah, I hope those tickets were cheap cause I ain't buying that.

I don't have a great deal of time to devote to educating folks in the basics of symbols, metaphors, and allegories, but you are a fairly learned fellow, and I'm certain that you aren't in need of it. No, obivously I'm not suggesting all pointy objects are phallic, but I think you know full well what an Obelisk represents and whom it may concern. I trust you are familiar with the symbology of the Obelisk, it's phallic representation, and it's almost nauseating repetition in western themes, but just out curiosity, what do you think this obelisk is doing on this of all sites?
Why an obelisk and not a Shoney's Big Boy, or something maybe even more relevant to the event like just a plaque or a brass mushroom?

We've got one of these Yurts or whatever you guys want us to call them here in my own hometown too, we call the Vance Memorial...
He apparently had a yurt erected in his honor right in the middle of town.

Purely by cooincidence of course, Zebulon Vance was a Freemason from the Mt. Hermon Lodge #118. I bet you have one in your town too, and I bet if you dig really hard you may find Freemasonry linked to it. That can't be though because there is no Obelisk, only well stacked piles of rocks according to you guys right? Yeah right, and maybe those Acacia sprigs masons get when they get out of Kabalagarten are actually Olive Branches.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by twitchy]

Originally posted by HooHaa
Solomons temple was created long before 10 bc... The fall of Isreal to the babylonians who sacked Solomons temple was 400 to 500 years BC. Then came the Medes and Persians then the Greeks then the Romans in wich time Christ was born and marked 1BC and 1AD.

Umm...Nobody said it was built in 10 BC. I did say that it was completed in 10AD - but that was the second Temple.

It was AugustusMasonicus who said:

Meat, just a small correction. The original Temple of Solomon is historically dated to aproximately the 8th to 10th century BC. Which still puts its construction far after the pyramids.

10th century BC, not 10 BC.

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by twitchy

Yeah, I should have totally expected there to be a great stone phallic representaion of the Egyptian God Osirus there on a US military installation and National Monument, you're right, my bad.

Come on twitchy I wasn`t having a go at you,I was asking you questions that you may not of thought of? and because I`m struggling to see what you do in the hope that you fill me in,I even searched to add something to your theory.I just dont know what it all means if anything even if true.

If there was a clear masonic symbol on it for instance,what would that say to you? what does it say even now that you do believe it to be masonic?
That there are many in powerful positions even in the military? I dont think thats a secret even by masons.

Other military symbols,check the military medals (down the page)then check the shriners,I remember flicking through an Australian military book a few years ago and I`m sure there was a square and compass on one medal,which says to me Freemasonry does have a say or influence to what ever degree I dont know,in the military.

There`s street designs that are clearly masonic,(square and compass etc). The city in where I live they are building a hospital which is clearly the shape of the square and compass when I saw an artists drawing of it on the news looking down on it from above.

Canberra was disgned (this is just the first link that came up,not sure if I agree with a goats head?) by a mason.

So of all the masonic designs etc in the world that are masonic and masons admit to them as well,why is this marker(if it is masonic?)so significant to you thats the main part I`m not getting.

Other than if it is a phallic symbol,I think its quit fitting,as like the world is today with weapons in seeing who`s got the biggest phallus,and maybe why they called it Little Boy because they knew they would make atomic weapons bigger?

Just discussing Twitchy,no bashing.

Originally posted by gps777
I wasn`t having a go at you...If there was a clear masonic symbol on it for instance,what would that say to you? what does it say even now that you do believe it to be masonic?

Nor I at you. If this Obelisk were anywhere else in the world it wouldn't be an issue, hobnobbery abounds the world round, but this one happens to be on the site of the first atomic detonation. I can't imagine a more terrifying and ugly thing to slap your trademark on.

Originally posted by twitchy

Nor I at you.

Cool

hobnobbery abounds the world round, but this one happens to be on the site of the first atomic detonation. I can't imagine a more terrifying and ugly thing to slap your trademark on.

Exactly why it would be fitting for mine,I`d be annoyed if it was something warm and fuzzy.

reply to post by twitchy


The Bringing of Prima Materia to Prima Terra?

Twitchy, I'm not sure if you heard about James Shelby Downard's King-Kill/ 33. But some of what you are saying reminded me of him. A chapter entitled "The Sorcerers", in the book 70 Greatest conspiracies introduced me to JSD. (available as a PDF sampler here) In the preface of King-Kill he states:

In a literal, alchemical sense, the Making Manifest of All That is Hidden is the accomplishment of the 3rd Law of the Alchemists and is, as yet, unfulfilled or at least not completed; the other two have been: the creation and destruction of primordial mater (the detonation of the first Atomic Bomb at the Trinity Site, at White Sands, New Mexico, on the 33rd degree of parallel), the Killing of the King (at the Trinity Site, at Dealey Plaza, Dallas, near the 33rd degree of latitude).

www.revisionisthistory.org...
(bold emphasis mine)

It's interesting that he mentions this as well. I'm sure he'd also agree with you that the obelisk is masonic.

Some more on the possible masonic connection:

The Creation and Destruction of Primordial Matter was accomplished at the White Head ("Ancient of Days"), at White Sands, New Mexico, at the Trinity Site. The Trinity Site itself is located at the beginning of an ancient Western road known in old Mexico as the Jornada del Muerto (the Journey of the Dead Man).

Early in this century a Freemason named Peter Kern was ordered to build a highly symbolic "Gate of Death" at a key point on this ancient trail. It was known as the Gate with a Thousand Doors.

www.ctrl.org...

Of course, this is way down the rabbit hole...

PS Masons will want to check out this link on James Shelby Downard's theory.



[edit on 22/1/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23

My god thank you for replying to this thread, I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see an Obelisk in the picture lol.

Is this yet another 'Masonic' obelisk?

Certainly it's a cairn with military connotations.

Originally posted by gps777
I saved the pics and enlarged them so`s I could take a closer look and also read the plaques and still can find nothing,although the pic of the obelisk/Cairn (whatever?) I couldn`t read because of the poor resolution.The pic of the sign says nothing referring to masons and shows nothing masonic as in emblems.

Here are nice close-ups of the monument:

www.hmdb.org...

I'm not sure why we are debating if its a obelisk or not. As twitchy has already pointed out, even White Sands Missile Range's own chronology lists the monument as a "lava obelisk".

www.wsmr.army.mil...

and in its gallery here:
www.wsmr.army.mil...#


[edit on 22/1/08 by ConspiracyNut23]