Interesting Place to Find a Masonic Obelisk

Well let's start this thread over then...
There is an Obelisk that stands at the Trinity Nuclear Test Site to commemorate the first explosion of an atomic device that I believe to be a masonic emblem.
I'm open to any evidence presented which would debunk the claim, or to otherwise indicate that the Obelisk is not a symbol used in any sort of freemasonry.

My understanding of obelisks is that they were used by ancient Egypt, Rome and the Druids. All long before Masonry. The only connection I can see is that the medium is stone.

reply to post by twitchy


I'm sorry Twitchy, but it's really really hard to try and prove a negative. I'm not sure I can do that. Any chance that you can show why you think it is masonic?

reply to post by intrepid


That works out pretty well if you subscribe to the theory that Freemasonry came about in the middle ages as an early type of Labor Union.

As to Cleopatra's Neddle in Central park...

Source
The polished cube found in the east angle corresponds to the perfect ashlar; the polished square corresponds with the square; the rough block found in the west angle corresponds with the rough ashlar; the stone with figures representing snakes is emblematic of wisdom; the axis stone is the trestle board, and the marked stone adjacent to it bears the Master's Mark.
The two implements found, the lead plummet and the iron trowel, are clearly emblematic of Freemasonry.

The piece of soft white limestone found under the polished cube has been regarded as a symbol of purity, and as having been placed in the center of the eighteen pieces forming the lower step to designate the word of the eighteenth degree.


Most Worshipful Jesse B. Anthony, Grand Master of Masons in the State of New York, presided as the cornerstone for the obelisk was laid in place with full Masonic ceremony on October 2, 1880. Over nine thousand Masons paraded up Fifth Avenue from 14th Street to 82nd Street and it was estimated that over fifty thousand spectators lined the parade route.

To commemorate that historic event, the Grand Lodge of New York under the leadership of Most Worshipful Bruce Widger, then Grand Master of Masons in the State of New York restaged the historic ceremony on October 5, 1980. It was a ceremony of proportions fitting to this historic event. Entertainment was provided by bands from the New York State Maritime Academy in Fort Schuyler, Bronx, NY, the Emerald Society Pipe Band and from the Kismet Shrine Band. The award winning drill team of the Knights Templar put on a precision display of their expert marching maneuvers and the Masonic War Veterans presented the colors with dignity and grace. The invocation was presented by my old friend, R\W\ Daniel Fleming of Kismet Shrine Temple. M\W\ Charles W. Froessel, Honorary Chairman provided a warm and moving opening address. Remarks were presented by W\Eugene F. Haug of Anglo Saxon Lodge No.137.

The highlight of the ceremony was the cornerstone reenactment and address by Most Worshipful & Dr. Bruce Widger, Grand Master of Masons in the State of New York. At the conclusion of his address, he warmly thanked all of the participants for their part in the ceremony - the National Red Cross Emergency Disaster Team, the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation, the New York City Police Department, the Grand Lodge Staff Officers and others who are mentioned above.

The benediction was presented by R\W\ Louis C. Gerstein.

Now explain to me again how that isn't masonic?

Edit:
That isn't the only obelisk that has been erected with all the Masonic Pomp and Circumstance mind you, to go around erecting them with ceremonies all the time like that's quite odd for a symbol they don't use or acknowlege. Don't you think?

[edit on 21-1-2008 by twitchy]

reply to post by twitchy


I am well aware of the efforts of those who particpated in the logistics of the obelisk's transportation from Egypt to the United States and the Masonic ceremony that accompanied its re-erection. However, the obelisk itself is not Masonic no matter what traits anyone wishes to ascribe to its form. It was constructed by a society that predated masonry by millenia. I am not of the opinion that Masonry can trace its roots to the Templars let alone ancient Egyptian buliders. It would be a fantastic hallmark if true, but there is no evidence that I have seen that lends any credibilty to this line of reasoning.


[edit on 21-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by twitchy
[The thread is an observation, the fight with the masons is a hobby of mine.

You may want to rethink that.

Not because it's an interesting hobby to have ... but because - as near as I can figure - no one here is angry or fighting with you; they're simply asking questions and pointing out that you're wrong.

That's not really a fight, it' simply a notation that what you've written isn't correct.

Even I can see that, and I'm just a food group.

Your pal,
Meat.

A phalic power marker. A masonic monument erected in honor of the powerful light of man, and the light that the mind of man produced that day.

The masons, the ones who make themselves and that which surrounds them. Their emblem emblazoned on the milestones of mankind. Man-kind and Masonic- kind. They are the same, but, unfortunately different in the eyes of the so called all-seeing men of light.

Originally posted by twitchy
Now explain to me again how that isn't masonic?

Easy: it's not Masonic. There is no Masonic Obelisk.

That isn't the only obelisk that has been erected with all the Masonic Pomp and Circumstance mind you, to go around erecting them with ceremonies all the time like that's quite odd for a symbol they don't use or acknowlege. Don't you think?

Masons have a whole ceremony dedicated to laying the cornerstone of buildings, statues, etc. That doesn't mean the building, statues or etc are Masonic, it just means that there's a ceremony for it. I've been to a Masonic Cornerstone ceremony for a Catholic school. It's not a Masonic building, it's a school.

You're barking up the wrong tree still, dude.

Your pal,
Meat.

It is a Cairn...not an Obelisk. Move on.

Originally posted by mmmeat
no one here is angry or fighting with you; they're simply asking questions and pointing out that you're wrong.

It's not just this thread I'm refering to, it's a long story with alot of threads and posts that you may not be aware of, but suffice it to say I am in a long term opposition to Freemasonry and Zionism.

A Cairn?

reply to post by twitchy


It is a bit disengenious to select the cairn that looks least like the Trinity Memorial.

Cairn

Cairn 2

Cairn 3

reply to post by twitchy


Yes a Cairn www.adirondackjourney.com...

Anyone who has ever hiked the AT knows what it is...not that the truth matters eh ?

Originally posted by twitchy
It's not just this thread I'm refering to, it's a long story with alot of threads and posts that you may not be aware of, but suffice it to say I am in a long term opposition to Freemasonry and Zionism.

You may have 'long term oppostion' ... but, if all of the threads where you think you're 'fighting' with others are just like this thread - in which you're just being proven wrong - then I stand by my previous comments.

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
It is a bit disengenious to select the cairn that looks least like the Trinity Memorial.

It's also equally disengenious to claim it is a Cairn, when the Media, the public, and even Uncle Samcall it an obelisk. If you find anything official that refers to it as a Cairn I'd like to see it. Can we at least agree it's an obelisk before you guys try to disassociate freemasonry from it?

Originally posted by mmmeat
Masons have a whole ceremony dedicated to laying the cornerstone of buildings, statues, etc. That doesn't mean the building, statues or etc are Masonic, it just means that there's a ceremony for it.

Yeah we know, which actually raises a relevant point... So Cleetus and I can just pull up to the construction site of a public place and bury a ball cap and some beer cans too to symbolise our good ole boy system or are masons given some kind of special clout here in the erection of public buildings, phallus' included? Why is that?
I'm digging into the erection of this particular monument, would be interesting to see who actually placed it. At least they had the common decency to use Black stones instead of their usually white stones that symbolize purity. Nothing pure and decent about the ability to kill millions and blackmail billions.
Unless your into that sort of thing that is...

[edit on 21-1-2008 by twitchy]

Originally posted by twitchy
Can we at least agree it's an obelisk before you guys try to disassociate freemasonry from it?

To disassociate it (The obelisk) from Freemasonry it has to have been associated with Masonry to begin with. The only association that I have seen is your implication. You have yet to clearly state why you feel that the Trinity Memorial is Masonic other than your associating its overall shape with that of other similar objects.

I have not seen anything posted about or depicted upon the memorial to indicate any type of Masonic pedigree. If you can show me otherwise please do.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by twitchy
It's also equally disengenious to claim it is a Cairn, when the Media, the public, and even Uncle Samcall it an obelisk. If you find anything official that refers to it as a Cairn I'd like to see it. Can we at least agree it's an obelisk before you guys try to disassociate freemasonry from it?

It's no more disingenuous to call the historical monument a cairn than it is to claim that it has anything at all to do with Masonry.

If you can find anything official that refers to it as a Masonic monument, I'd like to see that.

I disagree that it's an obelisk, and that it has anything at all to do with Freemasonry.

your pal,
Meat.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by mmmeat]

Originally posted by twitchy
Yeah we know, which actually raises a relevant point... So Cleetus and I can just pull up to the construction site of a public place and bury a ball cap and some beer cans too to symbolise our good ole boy system or are masons given some kind of special clout here in the erection of public buildings, phallus' included? Why is that?

So... what is the relevant point?

I'm digging into the erection of this particular monument, would be interesting to see who actually placed it. At least they had the common decency to use Black stones instead of their usually white stones that symbolize purity. Nothing pure and decent about the ability to kill millions and blackmail billions.
Unless your into that sort of thing that is...

So... again, what is the relevant point?

It's pretty simple to figure out who placed most monuments on public lands: the Army Corps of Engineers, duh.

The more you post, the less it appears you know what it is you're talking about. Again, I'm going to recommend you find a new hobby, you're not doing very well - in my opinion - at fighting.

Your pal,
Meat.

I thought freemasons trace there lineage back to Solomons temple? If that is true, then that puts them back to the time of the pyramids. Atleast some of them. Also doesnt freemasonry place alot of value on symbols and symboism? The more hidden in plain site the more power the symbol has? So they wouldnt admit or confess to placing an obilisk or any other symbol or it would reduce its power. I dont pretend to know any mason secrets nor do I claim to be a conspiracy master. But I do find it coincidental that they chose that particular monument for that site.

OK, did a little research.

Originally posted by twitchy
A Cairn?

Actually that's an Inukshuk.

To the Trinity memorial, I'd have to go with cairn. Obelisks are much narrower. Cairns aren't.