[HOAX]Michael Horns Billy Meier photos[HOAX] from C2C tonight

Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

So...why am I going to build a replica again?

And, whats the point in wasting time trying to convince the devout. The idea is seductive to try (hell, I did), but it's futile.

If you have built a Wedding Cake replica, I'd love to see it. Think about it Jeff, if you are truly as passionate about this case as you claim to be, then just duplicate the damn thing so we can all stop arguing. And by doing so, you can cement yourself in the history of UFOlogy. I respect your work.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by AGENT51]

The Meier Case.. in photos


Looks like genuine saucers to me... pre Belgian Triangle era.
These one engine jobs must be in some mountain warehouse.
The wedding cake saucer.... you can make a saucer any way you want...
its got to be metal.
But the old ones are round for the giant Tesla coil on the floor.
Well the triangle has the same so shape didn't matter after all.
Low to ground and going slow apparently gives you better quality
pictures.

Going round the tree took an expert pilot.

The bell cake or globe cake saucer apparently has no holes underside
and does exhibit a circular cage or compartment.

Apparently the saucer designers were trying out things, perhaps
crazy things to discredit Meier.

Secret government plan: Lets make a crazy saucer to make Meier
look silly.

ED: Don't build it, it might take off. eeeooooowwww
That was big and a lot of metal.. does it exist today?


[edit on 1/29/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

Originally posted by lee anoma
reply to post by mazzroth

 

Couldn't have said it better.

What is up with those that still believe this guy?

I mean he took a photo from a TV screen of an actress and claimed it to be an authentic picture of an alien woman. He said he went back in time, met Jesus and dinosaurs. His UFO's have been proven to be container lids.

Come on.

I guess nonstop fakery is a lucrative profession because he keep going...and going...and going...

It's still amazes me that this thread is alive. I mean, you have obviously faked photos (proven to be faked) and wedding cake UFOs and still people talk and discuss his material in the most serious manner.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Breadfan]

Originally posted by Breadfan

Originally posted by lee anoma
reply to post by mazzroth

 

It's still amazes me that this thread is alive. I mean, you have obviously faked photos (proven to be faked) and wedding cake UFOs and still people talk and discuss his material in the most serious manner.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Breadfan]

Haha. Well, Wake me up with stereo. Bleed my ears and then I'll know.

reply to post by AGENT51


The difference is Agent, I'm not in this to prove this to you. I've done loads of work, which you've up to this point ignored. Why in the world is a model all that it takes to change your mind. Tell ya what, get one of your model guys you know to build it. I've done quite enough, if you look thru all I've presented...far more then enough not to get hung up on making replicas.

Nice bait with the "passionate" statement though.

So how long have you been a PAR member?

[edit on 29-1-2008 by jritzmann]

What about the time travel photos of the dinosaurs he claimed he saw that were taken from a painting?



This was posted by conspiracynut23 in this ATS thread: Ray Gun
From the site: Space Time News of Razimus.com

Why would he tell the truth about those UFO photos and then make up this kind of nonsense?

John I am surprised you believe this. I mean a few of his photos were taken from a TV screen.



Guys, let it go. The man is a clear fraud.
You're going from "I want to believe" to "I have to believe".

- Lee

reply to post by OSSkyWatcher


All those cake saucers look different.

Airborne the underside should start to look different.

The photos

Isn't most of the Meier stuff on film and these are frames.

This guy is better than Disney. Did he have a big studio.

Or its real.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
This guy is better than Disney.

Hardly.

Or its real.

No it is fake.

It is only real to those that love a good yarn. Like from the story tellers of old that spun hyperbolic tales around the camp fire that were too fun to ignore. The story tellers of course love the attention so the stories would become more fantastically dramatic with each telling.

They were famous more or less but not because of the truth and that is what I am sure drives this gentleman.

Fame.

The people with the real stories I usually ignored.

- Lee

First of all, and despite the ongoing ATS discussions about it in several threads, even today I believe that the Billy Meier case in my opinion as a whole is real and no fraud.
I think I have seeing most of his pictures and read almost all of his contacts reports,
the Ufo contact from the Pleiades, The Henoch Prophecies and on.
Especially for what I read and is predicted in the Henoch Prophecies I hope he is wrong, and it won’t become a reality.
But when I look to our world as it is today and what I expect of the future myself it would not surprise me when he will be right afterall.
But time will tell.

So back to the discussion.
How difficult it for me is to say, I must admit that I have a problem to with those so called wedding-cake pictures myself.

Again reading this article,

www.theyfly.com...

and look again closely to the provided evidence and pictures I have a very different other feeling with those pictures then what I have with all his other pictures.
I said it is just a feeling, and definitely not a solid technical investigation.
To me this “wedding-cake ship” in these pictures looks in a way not real.
It gives me really the impression/feeling that it looks in a way fabricated.

But as I said it will not change my today’s overall opinion.

Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by AGENT51

 

The difference is Agent, I'm not in this to prove this to you. I've done loads of work, which you've up to this point ignored.

Nice bait with the "passionate" statement though.


[edit on 29-1-2008 by jritzmann]

No one's trying to "bait" you. Lighten up. No need to get defensive. I've reviewed all of your pictures and asked you to give me the dimensions/sizes of the models you and IIG used (if you have that info.) No one has yet given me an exact size of the models used in the other desert photos besides the Grand Canyon pictures.




13. Look at the silvery reflective nature of the object. How would one turn a black plastic trash can lid into this shiny metallic piece? Silver spray paint? It just doesnt add up.






Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking anyone to believe all this. But perhaps this requires further investigation.




[edit on 29-1-2008 by AGENT51]

reply to post by AGENT51


Hi Agent,
no offence but your tone is slightly changing and becoming very similar to John Lear's.
Thanks to ATS Mods to giving this thread HOAX tag. I really applause it. Just a technical question: Shouldnt members be banned, if the are supporting delibaretly a hoax ? Just asking, sorry.



[edit on 29-1-2008 by commodore64]

Hello once again Meier apologists.

Some topics it would seem, never die. Some lies are never really exposed, only briefly forgotten.

If you please, have a look at this, as a reminder -- Wedding_Cake_ship.mpg

Then, please review my analysis of the video, and the obvious issue in this post from the older thread --
www.abovetopsecret.com...

For those who still hold true the Meier material, can you explain such obvious indications of fraud in this particular video?

Originally posted by commodore64
reply to post by AGENT51

 

Hi Agent,
no offence but your tone is slightly changing and becoming very similar to John Lear's.
Thanks to ATS Mods to giving this thread HOAX tag. I really applause it. Just a technical question: Shouldnt members be banned, if the are supporting delibaretly a hoax ? Just asking, sorry.



[edit on 29-1-2008 by commodore64]

Sorry to offend you. I seem to have difference of opinion and facts that many skeptics here have simply ignored. I am an un biased observer simply asking for more info. I don't think the mods are going to ban me anytime soon. Sorry.

Wedding cake photos are made from a Dayton semi rim . I would almost swear to it in court . If i had a welder i would whip one out in a few hours if i had the time and material .

Originally posted by AGENT51
13. Look at the silvery reflective nature of the object. How would one turn a black plastic trash can lid into this shiny metallic piece? Silver spray paint? It just doesnt add up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking anyone to believe all this. But perhaps this requires further investigation.

Indeed. Metallic paint has been in existence for quite some time. In fact, the quality of paint available during the time these images were taken is much better than what is available to the average person now.

Perhaps you might offer to explain two important issues with this photo you've graciously provided --

a.) Can you help us understand why Meier is the only known source of photographs of supposed extraterrestrial craft that are bumping into trees?

b.) Can you help us understand why the tree in the photo above is obviously not a large and mature tree? (One need only compare the needle/branch structure at the top to that of mature fir trees) -- If this is a small tree, then it would stand to reason the model is also smallish.


Thank you.

reply to post by OSSkyWatcher


Meier's saucer piloted by female.

Got the sun in the way, awful convincing that its not fake.


A female saucer pilot.

There might have been a few in Nazi Germany.

Adolf and Eva (Braun) Hitler were daringly rescued from the Berlin Bunker by flying saucer, piloted by test pilot Hanna Reitsch and long distance flight expert Hans Ultich Rudel. The couple were later protected by the secret amnesty agreement, live their remaining lives under protection of the N.A.T.O.

From research

A woman saucer pilot.

ED: Perhaps the elites are playing Meier like they play everyone else
since WWII. INSIDE JOBS never go away, they just control.


[edit on 1/29/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

It's a bait for a reply. I gave you one. But as far as making replicas, forget it. As I said, I've done enough.

It seems as though I answer one issue from you, and you essentially move the goalposts to another.

Yes sir, it's most likely spray paint, as I don't see brush marks. It's not chrome, it's metallic. As in metallic paint. Now, dealing with paint like I do on a daily basis, and have so for countless years. Thats paint. And you can check with paint companies to see that it was around, and would have had that dulled reflective quality.

Again, for someone who allegedly works in model production, you should know what silver paint looks like.

It's a can lid. This has been *well* shown.

You answer this for me since I reply diligently to you: How do you justify or rationalize the absolute exactness of the lid with your "UFO"? I look forward to your reply.


As a side note, in response to your statement about skeptics doing a "bad job":

I'm curious what else you'd have the skeptics of this case do since you claim they "haven't done a good job":

-Found parts identified on "WC".

-shown focal issues indicating small or scaled model close to camera.

-indicated, demonstrated, and shown lack of atmospheric haze in photos (both duplicated and Meier's.)

-Asket and Nera faked photos identified and exposed as photographed off TV screen.

-duplicated saucer photos (good enough to be called "better then Meier's by many people (here at ATS as well as others)

-exposed several expert testimonies (through direct communication with a couple) for the case as misquoted or taken out of context (some outright edited in content).

-dinosaur "time travel" photo discovered as rendered painting from publication (available at the time period).

-exposed "predictions" as available from publications (IIG West "Ike 42" report)

-models found in Meier's barn (well known, documented and photos available on the net)

-"Sparking saucer" photos recently released, already duplicated and done to perfection (steel wool on fire IIG West)

-"Light Craft" series exposed as double exposure (Biedny, Paracast)

-SAE Sound Engineering Institute (by engineer and head of curriculum) identifies "beamship sound" as feedback/delay effect using common and available items (during time period).

-Caliope Meier (now ex-wife) states contacts/photos are faked.

-Meier representative claims metal samples are in possession of Meier, yet refuses to have analysis conducted by 3rd party independent lab.

-Representative challenged to produce original negatives for 3rd party independent analysis: refused.

All of this should be more then enough. I know of a mere 2 items in this list, that largely by themselves put a very well documented case in the "hoax" category by most of the researchers out there.

With all this, I see little reason to further pound this case, and I have no interest in convincing the devout, or those who refuse to accept these as very important issues, but would rather disparage the messenger or refer to outdated "analysis" reports.

Anyway...I mean I just don't have any more to say. If any really good questions come up, besides "I don't believe that", I'll respond. Otherwise, ya probably wont hear from me.

Originally posted by mister.old.school

Originally posted by AGENT51
13. Look at the silvery reflective nature of the object. How would one turn a black plastic trash can lid into this shiny metallic piece? Silver spray paint? It just doesnt add up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking anyone to believe all this. But perhaps this requires further investigation.

Indeed. Metallic paint has been in existence for quite some time. In fact, the quality of paint available during the time these images were taken is much better than what is available to the average person now.

Perhaps you might offer to explain two important issues with this photo you've graciously provided --

a.) Can you help us understand why Meier is the only known source of photographs of supposed extraterrestrial craft that are bumping into trees?

b.) Can you help us understand why the tree in the photo above is obviously not a large and mature tree? (One need only compare the needle/branch structure at the top to that of mature fir trees) -- If this is a small tree, then it would stand to reason the model is also smallish.


Thank you.

I'm not arguing that it looks like a model. There's simply no reference point for what a 'real ufo' would look like. And no, I cannot aswner your above questions as I have a few more of my own:

1. Where was the model made and concealed?

2. Who in Meiers area possesses the specialized skills required for this precision level of manufacture, at any size?

3. What is it made of?

4. Where were the materials obtained?

5. What was the cost of these materials?

6. Who paid for it?

7. How long did it take to make? (Remember, a two-armed model maker took four months to assemble his inferior model.)

8. What does it weigh, assuming even a 5' diameter metallic object, as suggested by one debunker?

9. How was it suspended at 30' by a one-armed man? (Setting up just one special effects shot with a 5' (let alone 14) object requires numerous people and lots of time. Meier took over 60 photos of the WCUFO, plus the video.)

10. Where is the model now, what happened to it, would something of this complexity - and value - just disappear?

11. With all of the photos, both day and nighttime, how could Meier have accomplished all of this unobserved and without accomplices?

12. Why hasn't ANYONE come forward to show that they made and/or now have it?

reply to post by AGENT51


reply to post by AGENT51


No offence. I was just wanted to know the policy. I wouldn't want to be banned anyone. I would rather try to persuade you on this issue; but it is impossible
By the way, I am not sure, if it is really a case of "different opinion" here. We are just discussing whether the world is flat or not here

Originally posted by AGENT51
1. Where was the model made and concealed?

Perhaps it might be more productive to answer my two questions before repeating a long list of previously addressed issues?