The Holocaust is Overrated

Crakeur. I'm just defending my nation and that history which has been modified, has been fabricated. We've learned what is the real history of Hungary and not that one which is on the Internet or on current History books. We, Hungarians know this. Why is something is hate filled by your opinion when somebody is writing down the truth? Because it's not fitting into your perspective? Or maybe because you're covering something and you know that the truth what I'm writing down, but you're rather questioning my words, just to keep that secret hidden? You want to deny ignorance, just as anyone at ATS. But if you really want to know the truth, dig deeper in history (Past and present) and you will see that many thing what you have learned is not really happened on the exact way as it's really happened.

What I written down about Gypsies for example, it's happening day by day in Europe, in my country, in Italy, in Germany, in France, in the United Kingdom and other countries in the E.U. Even if you want to take your head into the sand, it's still happening, you like this fact or not. Everything what I written down is the truth, regardless that you're a super moderator or not. It's happening. You may deny it, but you cannot change the fact of it.

Oh. And one last thing. My nation wasn't anti-Jewish, until they not betrayed us. My nation and my people is taking betrayal very seriously. If someone is betraying us, we're not welcome those ones in our country from that moment anymore. If you cannot accept this, something is really wrong with your senses, because in this case you don't know what honor and justice does really mean.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Dark Crystalline]

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by Dark Crystalline

 

jews, gyspies and blacks all in one hate filled post. congrats. that has to be an ATS record.

Very sadly and with much disgust I was thinking basically the same thing. OMG another thread that's really nothing more than a vehicle for a collection of anti-semitic rants. Even from someone that apparently fancies themselves to be more enlightened than the rest of us because they're "crystalline".



[edit on 1/17/2008 by centurion1211]

Ok first of all I have great respect for the Jewish faith. Its one of the few faiths I still respect. Even though I may not agree with all of their practices. Anyway I think that the holocaust is given perhaps a little to much space in text books. I whole heartedly agree that it was one of the worst atrocities committed by mankind in a long time. But how were the settlers and pilgrims who came to America that much better? While they didn't line the Native Americans and march them into gas chambers they persecuted them and sometimes intentionally gave them disease laced blankets or trinkets. Who knows how many millions of them died over the course of time. Does the trail of tears ring a bell to anyone? I know it cant even begin to compare to the horrors encountered in the Death camps the Nazis built but it was still pretty horrendous. I just think that American History school book's should tell a little bit more about the pilgrims and what really happened after "The First Thanksgiving".That and the other atrocities committed
by some American people. FYI I think the reason the Holocaust receives so much attention is that almost an entire faith was wiped out and then managed to rise from the ashes.(NO pun intended).

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
reply to post by italkyoulisten

 

lets see you live through what happened and then see how you feel about it

Alright guys, now you are trying to attack my moral character. I did not say in any way that the Holocaust did not occur or that it wasn't bad. I am just saying that it pales in comparison to other historical events, genocides, etc. It was a HUGE tragedy, but I was saying that, as an example, the atrocities in Asia were much worse with more deaths but it was the way that they died that made it so horrible. But it is barely mentioned in the history books. Why? I was just posing these questions:

1) Why is it that the Holocaust is so emphasized in western societies? Like ask anyone in the "developed" world what the holocaust was, they'd be able to answer you. Why doesn't Japan's atrocities get much mention at all, even though it is more than comparable to the horror of the Holocaust?

2) Why is it that the Holocaust tragedy is immediately associated with Nazis vs. Jews? Why not Polish people or all those other people who were gassed alongside the Jewish? They were definitely significant in number. 3 million Polish killed in the Holocaust! Not mentioning them is akin to not mentioning Ron Paul in the news.

I am not anti-semitic, I do not dislike Jewish people. I am just posing the question, why is the Holocaust taught to us so many times, as if they are trying to drill it into our minds?

[edit on 17-1-2008 by italkyoulisten]

Personally I think your motives are suspect. Secondly, you have this a bit twisted in my opinion.

I think the reason it was emphasized to the degree it was has more to do with how easily Hitler and his ilk were able to pull the wool over the eyes of their citizens through propaganda in regards to the Jews. You could fill in that blank with any group.

Hitler was able to convince an arguably intelligent population to participate in atrocities in an attempt to take over the entire world. The fact that the West and the future members of the Soviet Republic were able to work together to a common goal of defeating Hitler is of great importance here.

We did not sacrifice millions and engage in a World War to save just the Jews. It was to save ourselves, no matter who we are from total domination worldwide by Hitlers evil regime.

Had events gone the other way imagine the slaughter that would have ensued as Hitler cleansed the world based on his views.

Yes we should teach about all atrocities and learn from them. No we should not stop teaching about the Jewish Holocaust just because some have personal bias and bigotry against them. The lesson should be extended to learning about what leads to this kind of hatred and bigotry by otherwise intelligent people. People inexplicably delight in slaughtering people who are different than they. Whether it be hatred of Blacks, Whites, Americans, Jews, Muslims or any other group.

I have no real knowledge of what is being taught these days but as I was growing up the memory of WW2 was still fresh and Vietnam was just getting underway. We were taught in great detail what occured during that war. I strongly suspect that our being taught about this attrocity and having it fresh in our minds was a tool in ending the war in Vietnam. A possitive result of the teaching.

I have no idea about other countries and their schools and its hard to even know where some are coming from who don't list their locations for some unknown reason. If this thread were say from a German who may be a part of the Holocaust Denial crowd or a member of a Radical Muslim group it could be interpreted quite differently than if it were posted by someone educated in and a citizen of the United States or Great Britain.

I can only hope the motivation behind these often occurring threads are not that some are evil enough to agree with Hitler and his Nazi's or any other Supremacist oriented group. Sadly though the world will always contain these Monsters who base their life views on irrational hatred of others.

reply to post by Dark Crystalline


you couldn't resist. your nation wasn't betrayed by anyone. your nation has always been the first in line to turn over "undesireables" in an effort to gain better standing with some other oppressor. you can defend it all you want. it doesn't change the actual facts.

you can talk about black crime here, gyspy crime there, the, what did you call it, big nosed, hunched shuffling jews? of europe being the cause of whatever it is that you have not been able to achieve but the end result is that we are who we are and we are all human beings, supposedly from the same mold and I would rather take my big nosed shuffling jew self to a dinner with a bunch of gyspies, blacks, asians, muslims, hindus, native americans, handicapped, gays, (am I missing anyone) than sit down in a palace where the the bricks of the building were built on the labor and money of the jews, gypsies, blacks, asians, muslims etc... who were then thrown out, persecuted, slaughtered etc to avoid having to deal with the fact that we are all here, for better or for worse.
We should all try and look beyond our misinformed bigotry and our uneducated beliefs and try to find a way to get along with eachother because hatred for the sole purpose of hatred is one of the worst things to have to live with.

waking up each day, angry at a group of people solely because of their religion or color or family background must be a wretched existence.

centurion1211. Right now, nowadays, in my country, word such as Anti-Semite is meaning already nothing to us, Hungarians, since the Zionists (Christians too, not just Jewish extremists) are called my nation as a Nazi nation, everyone in it without any reason, while they called in the IDF to Budapest last year to attack the Hungarian citizens if they want to overthrow the current regime (Yes, the IDF was here, called in by the Zionist PM and it's band.). As I written above, there are two type of people are existing now on the world...
Zionists, whose intend to achieve globalism, global control (There are Jewish Zionists, Christian Zionists and even Muslim Zionists.)

And the other side is...

Nazis (Hungarians, Germans, U.S. Citizens, Iranians, Palestinians, and including peace lover Jewish people, etc, etc... so, everyone who wants peace, hate globalism, love his own country, etc, etc...)

You may not going to admit this now, but you will see it in this year, that there will be greater conflicts, where Israel is going to use this word against those ones, whose are opposing their killings (Such as they already called the U.N. as an Anti-Semitic organization after they questioned the death of few innocent civs and few massacre.). This is where we're heading now. Our, Hungarians luck, that we're from the resistant type. We always fought against tyranny and lies. It's in our blood. And usually we have the sense to find the truth between the lies. If you're not seeing what we're seeing, because we're experiencing this day by day... well, I hope you're not going to experience what is going on here right now. But if yes, you will experience it, at least you will know the truth from someone, who is already experienced it and tried to warn you and others about it.

reply to post by Dark Crystalline


That kind of hatred will destroy you eventually. I don't get angry any more by people who have your view and hatred. I'm saddened that the Human Brain can even produce the thoughts that lead to these opinions. All I can do is pray you don't some day take up a weapon and act out your delusions or secure a leadership position. I honestly hope you are just in Troll mode and want an extra point on your total. If you are recruiting others to these dark thoughts, I hope you fail.

reply to post by italkyoulisten


I think I already answered both of your questions.

And with respect to "why the Holocaust tragedy is immediately associated with Nazis vs. Jews", I think the other influence includes the unavoidable fact that Adolf Hitler himself placed it at the center of what he thought was wrong with German society. (See, for example, The Discovery of Antisemitism in Vienna: Adolf Hitler's Mein Kompf.)

Again, where is the confusion?

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taught. I'm just saying that all great atrocities should be given equal attention. I can't believe I can't even ponder this question without being labeled anti-semitic.

Crakeur. I'm not going to argue with you, because you're an arrogant and ignorant guy, nothing more. YOU'RE the one, who is learned the wrong things about my country. You know what you learned from your brainwashed media. But your knowledge is against a more then 3000 year old nation and culture (Yes more then 3000 and not 2000 as few are stating to make a favor for a race, which is stating that they're the chosen ones, but whose never was.). My country never betrayed anyone and never attacked any nation at all (Check the history again. While every nation attacked other nations to conquer territories, the Hungarians are attacked only when they was attacked, but never left our borders to conquer other territories. This includes the WW2. We just defended territories bravely, but my people never attacked anyone in WW2. Not a country, not a single city. While other nations killed every man, woman and child, my country always spared the life of the civs. Always.). My country never killed innocent woman and children throughout it's history as you're stating. That's what the Europeans knows for sure about my country, the ancient Hungarian Empire and about my people. What you know and telling, that's a complete lie. Or simply you're creating the lies by yourself to defend something.

Come here, live here, talk with Hungarians, talk with those ones, talk with the so called Crystallines, Indigos, members of the ancient Táltos culture (Yes. They're also not a myth, because they're still living here, while many tried to kill them, exterminate them. As many are tried to deny the existence of the Indigos and Crystallines too. Well. Most of them are also Hungarian, just to give an additional nice fact to you. They're also not a myth and not a legend.) to learn what we know, learn our REAL history, learn our REAL culture, then open your mouth please. Until that time, you don't have credit at all, Mister, because you don't know what you're talking about at all.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Dark Crystalline]

Blaine91555. Defending my country, our history, our culture is hate? You really believe in this? If yes, not I'm the one who has a problem here. And no. I'm not trolling at all. I'm just writing down, what is happened and happening around the world, regardless that some people love this fact or not.

Anyway. Good night everybody. It was nice to talk with you.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Dark Crystalline]

Sometimes, it pays to put things in perspective:

It is estimated that one million persons died in the wars and another million was sold into slavery, draining Gaul of approximately one third of the entire population. Caesar had effected an unprecedented genocide (in modern terms we would talk about war crimes, genocide and crimes against the humanity), all in the name of honour and glory.

I really don't think we've all heard of the Holocaust perpetrated by Julius Caesar against the ancestors of the French. Think about it.

Until you've seen the PBS holocaust, of large bulldozers pushing in thousand of bags of bones, anyone who can say 'overated' is a hideous beast.

I suggest you all look up King Leopold of Belgium... led to the murder of about ~10 million africans in his quest for money by exploiting africa and it's resources...

That definitely trumps the holocaust... jewish people need to realize that they aren't the only ones in history to have gone through something like this... I'm not saying the holocaust is overrated either.

[edit on 1/17/2008 by porky1981]

Heres a view that I dont think anyone has talked about on this thread and that is this...

First off yeah overrated might be the wrong word but Im not sure of a better word for it but this isnt where Im going....The holocaust has been taught and brought to the forfront of WWII since 4th grade. Now why do you suppose that is considering all the other attrocities pretty much what the thread poster is saying...now look at the present and where we are in the present. A lot of the current situations we are in is because of the Holocaust. Creation of Isreal wars in the middle east etc etc etc..... could this be brought to the forfront for a reason? Is there a bigger picture to be looked at? Good post and good point there were a lot of attrocities of wwII but none that I can think of affects us today more than the holocaust. Read what I have to say in whatever way you want.

Originally posted by greenfruit

So guess we have forgotten quite a bit since 1945.... our we don't care?

China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50, 49-78,000,000
Afghanistan, 1979-1982, 900,000
Ethiopia, 1975-78, 1,500,000
Biafra (Nigeria), 1967-1970 1,000,000
Rwanda, 1994 800,000
Cambodia 1,700,000
Angola, 1975-2002, 400,000
East Timor, West Papua, 1966-98 800,000
Yugoslavia 180,000
Pakistan, 1971, 500,000

Darfur TBD

and the list goes on and on and on
and will always go on....

*************
i will make the obvious point...none of the list above, AiA, or Pol Pot's actions happened to white people.

This thread is utterly pathetic...

"My example of genocide is better than your example of genocide..."

Have fun embracing ignorance...

:shk:



[edit on 17-1-2008 by loam]

reply to post by DCP


Yeah thats alot of deaths so why the focus on the Holocaust...I still think its because its a good excuse for a lot of past and present policy that our government has that without the holocaust the people would NEVER let fly.

Originally posted by loam
This thread is utterly pathetic...

"My example of genocide is better than your example of genocide..."

Have fun embracing ignorance...

:shk:

[edit on 17-1-2008 by loam]

How is it pathetic you just summed up what the poster is arguing...its stupid to argue which genocide is worse they are all bad but why does the holocaust get so much play?