Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by intrepid

 

Yeah bolding is fun...

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Hope you don't mind but I changed the bold. Is that making any sense now?

That's the beauty of cherrypicking what you want from scriptures. You can make it say what you want. BUT if you take it in it's entirety you'll find that religion falls on it's ass and the self righteous are devoid of comfort.

reply to post by intrepid



I am not cherry picking. You just have no point. Calling a sin a sin is not condemning any one. I do not even have the power to condemn any one.


What is so hard to understand about that?

Oh wow! Intrepid I respect you as a Mod but I find that last sentence very disconcerting. Did you mean to say that?

Sorry I said I wanted this thread closed, but sometimes my fingers overtake me and I can't control them.

BW and IR, yes, I meant that. There are a lot of Christians that think they know the mind of God but it really is perverted stuff from a religion. If you look at the teachings of Jesus it's WAY different than what you get from MSC(Main Stream Christianity).

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
You give me the power of God or a judge and jury. I can not condemn anyone. All I am doing is saying their behavior is wrong. That's not condemning. Condemning is punishing them somehow.

Saying their behaviour is wrong is judging however.. and lets face it christ spoke out more against persecution and judging than homosexuality.

Of course I realise my pointing out you're being judgmental is a judgment in itself.. but I also think it's more moral to defend the persecuted rather than joining you in throwing rocks at them.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
[
Saying their behaviour is wrong is judging however.. and lets face it christ spoke out more against persecution and judging than homosexuality.

Of course I realise my pointing out you're being judgemental is a judgement in itself.. but I also think it's more moral to defend the persecuted rather than joining you in throwing rocks at them.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by riley]

Words are hardly rocks. We are supposed to make judgments. You are dumb if you don't. We are also told to judge things (homosexuality) but not people (homosexuals).

So by riley logic you can not say anything is wrong?

1. I already said I have made judgments.. I believe biggotry is wrong and I think you are guilty of it. Not only did Jesus' say it's wrong.. but the buddha did as well. Confucious, star wars and the T&C if you go overboard with it. Biggotry is THE most distructive mindset that exists to humanity.. it seems to be at the core of all hate, oppression and violence.

Homosexuality on the other hand hasn't caused any wars or inspired genocide [aside from them being victims of it].

2. Words do count as 'throwing stones'.. the prostitute story was a metephore as well [though sadly I don't think you 'get it' anyway].

btw. ease up on the 'your dumb' arguments. this is meant to a discussion board not grade school.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
1. I already said I have made judgments.. I believe biggotry is wrong and I think you are guilty of it. Not only did Jesus' say it's wrong.. but the buddha did as well. Confucious, star wars and the T&C if you go overboard with it. Biggotry is THE most distructive mindset that exists to humanity.. it seems to be at the core of all hate, oppression and violence.

Homosexuality on the other hand hasn't caused any wars or inspired genocide [aside from them being victims of it].

2. Words do count as 'throwing stones'.. the prostitute story was a metephore as well [though sadly I don't think you 'get it' anyway].

btw. ease up on the 'your dumb' arguments. this is meant to a discussion board not grade school.

You do not even have a point.

How does calling something a sin equal throwing stones?

If you get in the head with a stone I bet you will see the difference.

All I ever said is that the Bible says it is a sin. Statement of fact.
Again how does that make me a bigot?

The rest you just made up.

You are proving Cons point that got this whole conversation started. And you are doing a fine job of it.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Your words tell me NOT only is the conspiracy walking and living among us, but when the days come that accusing a sinner takes more risk for ridicule than the risk of shame for the one committing it.

Thanks riley!

reply to post by Bigwhammy

You do not understand the moral of the stoning story at all.
It is obvious to me that the only reason you point out the 'sins' of others is not to help them but to persecute them. The reason I judge you on this is because I am in fact against persecution and would really like you to ease up on it.

..and I'm kind of annoyed that there are some christians who think that [the charactor of] Jesus would be okay with it. Either you are a christian and follow all that he taught or you are just claiming to be one so you can use it as a power trip and tell others you are [morally] superior to them. You're not.. you can say you follow christ all you like but nothing you have ever said reminds me his teachings.

I may not be christian but there are a few pearls of wisdom that can be taken from it: You can always tell a tree from it's fruit.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by riley]

reply to post by riley


I never persecuted a homosexual. I've known and worked with them and called them friends. You are just making that up. Prove it. I said the Bible says it is a sin. That's all I said. And you are persecuting me for a simple statement of fact. You are an anti-Christian bigot.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

You are an anti-Christian bigot.

Untrue.. [been defending it ironically ] I have been trying to reason with you showing exactly how you have been biggoted towards homosexuals.. I have not actually called you one so please afford me the same respect.

edit. I accidentally deleted my own post I think. it's been quoted so thats okay i hope.

post still stands .

[edit on 7-4-2008 by riley]

[edit on 7-4-2008 by riley]


[edit on 7-4-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by riley

You want me to quote your rants against homsexuality? the fact that you preach against homsexuality and not intollerence shows your morality is a little too selective.

Again all i have ever done is say that the Bible calls it a sin. That is not a rant. That is not persecution. It is a statement of fact. You are judging me. You can't prove I have ever treated a homosexual badly. Because I haven't. You just make false accusations.

Would you disrespect them by saying they're going to hell etc?

Again that's all in your mind. You are the only one judging others here. :shk: I have no authority on who goes to hell. Jesus paid the price for everyone who believes in him sins. No matter what the sin. Again I have never ever said anyone was going to hell. You make false bigoted accusations.

You say it so you can persecute homsexuals.. otherwise why bother? do you not think they should be loved as neighbours? You haven't been overly preoccupied with any other 'sins' so it's pretty clear you have an agenda against homsexuality specifically. Thats called a prejudice.

Again you just make stuff up. It never comes up in my daily life. But when i see threads here with false information about the scriptures, that concerns me. In fact that concerns me more than homosexuality. I don;t really care what people do in private. But misrepresenting the word of God pisses me off.

I am not persecuting you. I am trying to explain exactly how you have been persecuting others. why its wrong and why it's against christianity. All you keep saying "it's not persecuting cuz I'm just quoting the bible." yeah right..

You are an anti-Christian bigot. You have just fabricated everything you have accused me of. All i ever did was defend the Biblical stance that homosexuality is a sin. You have since fabricated wild tales of me throwing proverbial stones, persecuting people, and telling them they are going to hell. None of which I ever said. Ever. You can not back any of it up.

Untrue.. and I have been trying to reason with you showing exactly how you have been biggoted towards homosexuals.. I have not actually called you one so please afford me the same respect.

Yet not one example of me being bigoted. You are not telling the truth. If I showed you the respect you show, I would get banned. You have fabricated everything you accuse me of. You called me judgmental. A bigot. All I have ever done is take a stand on what the Bible teaches about the matter. Never anything personal about any specific "sinner".

The only thing I have ever taken a stand on in regard to this was: "The Bible says homosexuality is a sin."

The rest is just your preconceived notions of me.

Consider you self on "ignore" form now on

you just aren't worth the effort.

:shk:






[edit on 4/7/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Seems you missed this. Again:

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

You are an anti-Christian bigot.

Untrue.. [been defending it ironically

] I have been trying to reason with you showing exactly how you have been biggoted towards homosexuals.. I have not actually called you one so please afford me the same respect.

I have not called you are biggot. Please do not do this again.. I have already tried to explain why judging homosexuals and not others is prejudiced.. and it seems to be the only reason you 'quoted' it as Con tried to say being intollerant is okay. You agreed and even insult christians who aren't against homosexuals:

That is the truth Con. For instance, the Bible clearly calls homosexuality a sin; yet one look at all these very recent threads:


1. Homosexuality is Not Condemned by Christianity (Proof from the Bible!)
2. Who can agree with me when I say that being Gay is wrong?
3. Sally Kern, "Gay's are Infiltrating our City Council."
4. What DOES the Bible say about Homosexuality?


And you will find that Christians who have enough backbone to at least call it what the Bible says it is, a Sin, are labeled as intolerant.

AGAIN.. it is not for you to judge it as a sin.. even if they are christian homosexuals as thats between them and their 'god'. The bible isn't exactly pro-gay but Jesus was most definently against people being judgmental.
If my pointing this out to you makes you uncomfortable.. stop judging them. If their 'sinning' annoys you.. assert some of that christian tolerence and turn the other cheek.

And next time you want to accuse me of stuff.. stick to reality. I ASKED you if you told your gay friends they're going to hell.. then you turned around and said I accused you of telling them to go to hell. I did no such thing and people can read that for themselves.. [except for one accidentally hacked reply] the rest of your post reads much the same way...

[edit on 7-4-2008 by riley]

[edit on 7-4-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by rizla

Homophobic paranoid claptrap. Your comments gives Christians a bad name.

Really?? what did he say that wasn't true? Then tell me why saying the truth should give Christians a bad name. Being a Christian is not about being in a popularity contest, nor is it about seeking the approval of those who think intolerance, should be a Government entitlement.

if the truth hurts it is as Ben Franklin said.

Lessons that hurt,,

Instruct.

The personal attacks and addressing individuals needs to stop now. We are here to discuss issues, not each other. Off topic posts, personal attacks or even addressing individuals "problems" will result in warns or worse. Please stay on topic.

To read more about the etiquette required at ATS, you can read this: ABOUT ATS: General ATS discussion etiquette

I would also like to draw attention to what appears at the top of every page of this thread:

This thread is an ATS Big-Thread with 1113 replies, and subject to more strict moderation.
Please stay focused. Stay on-topic. Minimal or off-topic posts and T&C violations are subject deletion and/or a warning.

Calling sin, sin is not judgemental, except of the act, not the person.
Without the Law, you can't know right from wrong.

Who says we ALL concede that there is NO conspiracy against Christianity by atheism????
I don't concede!
Has anyone else given up and backtracked???

If you have, Why not read the hateful speaches of Harris and Dawkins and their lesser-known peers??????

Our children might go to these Universities and Academies and be ridiculed! "leave your faith at the door!"


[edit on 7-4-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by intrepid


What exactly is mainstream, now days?

Christianity is so varied.

Originally posted by Clearskies
Without the Law, you can't know right from wrong.

this is a very complex philosophical issue that really cannot be dealt with as a simple statement like that.

If you have, Why not read the hateful speaches of Harris and Dawkins and their lesser-known peers??????

...there's nothing hateful in the speeches of Dawkins or in those of Harris
the closest thing someone could find to "hateful" in a speech by Harris is that he said some people might have beliefs that are so dangerous that they might be need to be killed (which he admits in no way applies to 99.9999999% of religious folk, it's just a statement more regarding dangerous ideologies like nazism than anything else)

Our children might go to these Universities and Academies and be ridiculed! "leave your faith at the door!"

nobody really has any evidence of that...
to the contrary, there's actually evidence of the religious minorities being discriminated against in universities throughout the world.

I started to reply to this thread early this morning but deleted it only to return today and decide to do just that.

I need someone to explain to me why the "litmus test " for Believers is their stance on Homosexuality. Humanists and people of the earth ..this is almost thier sole debate point on such a topic line. I am at a loss to explain this. Can someone out here explain this litmus test to me???

This type of topic line always seems to generate or gel down to this tack.

I personally do not think AThiests are plotting to overthrow Christianity. I believe pagans are in fact plotting to overthrow Christianity. I dont give Athiests enough credit to pull it off. Pagans yes...Athiests no. That is just my read of history.

Perhapsed I should post the link to something I put up a few days ago

Here.......www.abovetopsecret.com...


As I also recall I did another one on that article mentioned about Gays on city council. Sally Kerns as I recall. It can be found linked within the Link above which I posted.

First off as a believer...I am in agreement with Bigwhammy in that homosexuality is a sin. Also I would add...in contrast to Riley that Believers are to be jugmental. They are to judge Righteous Judgement. Not the judment of men.

However ,In contrast to BigWhammy on this, I refer to the links posted ..in saying that the issue with me and also to be found in the Bible is the concept that one defines ones self by thier Sexuality. This is absolute nonsense...hetero and homo. BigWhammy does not take it far enough.

The historical position of the Bible ..also the Moral position... is that the nations surrounding Ancient Israel ...they had defiled the land with such practices..homo as well as hetero. THe Children ofIsrael were to have not to do with this practice. Nor are Believers today. This is where Bigwhammy falls short. Also where most of the athiests and non believers fall way short.

As posted in the links..we are not to defile ourselves with such conduct ..even today. In order to know of such things we are to be able to judge and in judgement keep away from such. This means homo as well as hetero. We are not to do as the nations surrounding us do..even today.
This is what gives offense. Nothing changed..nothing new here.

Intrepid,

Your position on page 55 of this thread ..the woman caught in Adultery..is not a good one to support your view.
It works well on silencing most Believers because they are not well versed on this passage and in fact not versed in many passages of the Word. I credit such lack of understanding in not being properly fed in the flock by thier pastors or preachers. Yet if Believers think it through ...what they are reading in this passage you quoted ...it is obvious what is happening.

I know that passage from the King James Version and it reads ...caught in adultery ..in the very act. This passage is missing from your quote of it. "in the very act."

Note something here intrepid...while Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery..in the very act...this passage is actually, to the knowlegable, a condemnation of the Phariseess..not the woman. This is the part totally missed by most believers and non believers as well. It is missing from your position.

THe passages from the Olde Testament state that Adulterers shall be stoned..both of them They ..plural..shall be stoned. They caught a woman ..in adultery..in the very act. Male and Female both. Yet they..the Pharisees ..did not bring the man...caught in adultery..they only brought the woman. Oh..this terrible woman...!!

They did not really care about the woman caught in adultery ..they were trying to catch and ensnare..to discredit.. Jesus in a fault in His understanding of the Olde Testament.

These Pharisees had in fact misused and misdirected the Olde Testament in bringing only the woman. They had disobeyed..they had sinned. The law that the Pharisees were keeping stated that women get punnished for adultery and men dont. This is not the Law of Moses..it is another law and another god. These Pharisees had in fact secretly switched gods. They had sinned ...this type of sin is called appropriately.."Whoredom."

Yes..Jesus forgave the woman and said "go and sin no more."
This passage is often used to teach this point alone..but it is in fact indicative of much more.
Intrepid ..the manner in which many are wont to use this passage is in fact a misdirection when one sees the whole picture. For it is also a condemnation of the Pharisees and Whoredom. While both the woman and the Pharisees had Whored...the Pharisees had committed the greater Whoredom. Jesus did not condem the woman. What about the Pharisees???

What the Bible often is..from cover to cover is a condemnation of Whoredom. It is in fact a record of the Whoredoms of men and this includes the Children of Israel. Cover to Cover. This is the facet ..many are wont to overlook while teaching and preaching about the greatness of the natural human condition and attempting to default through. I include even my Christian Bretheren and myself in this type of ignorance. For many of us truely are.

What is clear from the Word..is that belivers are never to define themselves by thier sexuality or sexual orientation. This is clear...simply because as a record of History...the nations surrounding Ancient Israel were already doing this..both Homo and Hetero. This history can be found if one is willing to do enough digging out side or in addition to what passes for historical knowlege in most educational institutions today.
Believers..are to define themselves by the God whose name is upon their lips...daily. I will add to this by saying that there is an abomnable ignorance among my Christian Bretheren in most things...historical and even in the Word. They are easily ensnared into debating confetti....placebos...anything to keep them off the target.

Anything to keep them off target....anything.
To declare greatness by sexual orientation is absolute nonsense. Any such orientation. Yet it seems to be the absolute very best that sophisticated, educated, intelligent people/humans can do. It is absolutely pitiful. This is not sophistry. It is nonsense.
It is also nothing new.

Well that is sufficient on this topic.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom

Pffff...

debating homosexuality, morals, etc.

This thread is how far off topic now?