The vile rants of the Koran

A general reply to kangjia57

During this discussion I have found your mood to fluxuate between cogent and intellectual, to rabbid and arrogant. While I do understand that you are defending your beliefs, you seem to throw out all respect for your fellow members in favor of condesending remarks and platitudes.

While I dont share your beliefs in Allah or the Prophets, I attempted to remain as respectful as possible to a culture and religion I know little about. But it seems, you do not share the same sentiment as I and show little respect for what you call a "liberal" society.

I have one final question, why would any culture accept such fervent beliefs in the absolute (while no proof can be found that your path is the true path), and if such culture's resisted the tides of Islam, would you believe they deserve death because they do not follow Islam?

EDIT: Sorry, I posted in the wrong thread.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Skyfloating]

I have two long time close friends of mine of nearly thirty years . One is a Muslim and the other a born again Christian . They are very passionate in their respective religions and yet they still have me as a lifetime friend . Me , I'm not like them.., ideological and fundamental . I'm like the ancient Persian poets.., I'm sentimental , I'd rather get drunk and watch the firmament go past and feel tickled by the wonder of it all . Yes you can do that in Australia a lot . Each has tried to convert me over the decades but I do include their truth in my spirituality . I believe life , the Big Fella and everything is inclusive , not exclusive . But I've noticed with both religions it's like ....how dare they have a story of origin different from ours ! kind of thing . The four corners of this world has revealed that there really are 25 127 corners and counting . The sooner we treat this not as a threat but as complimenting truths of the mysterious place of humanity in the firmament the better do you think ?

Originally posted by kangjia57

The Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. This proves without doubt that the Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad , and that the Quran was not authored by Muhammad or by any other human being. This also proves that Muhammad is truly a prophet sent by God. It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods.

islambyquestions.net...

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic.’ (54:1-2)

The miracle of the splitting of the moon was demonstrated before a certain gathering who persisted in denial of Muhammad’s Prophethood. As was related by ‘Adbullah ibn Mas‘ud, while they were in Mina’ one night, the Prophet split the moon into two by a gesture of his index finger. The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’
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“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: We said: O Zul Qarnain! Either punish or show them kindness.” (Al-Kahf: 86)
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Well those both sound really scientific to me.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by masonica_esoterica]

Lets not forget according to Hadith, Mohammed married Aisha when she was six years old, and had sexual relations with her when she was nine years old.I think that most rational people find it hard to believe that God's last and true prophet was a pedophile.

www.homa.org...

When she was 6, Muhammad asked Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, for her hand. Abu Bakr thought it was improper, because, as he said "I am your brother"; Muhammad brushed aside Abu Bakr's reservation by saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha [ Ref: SAHIKH BUKHAR I7:18].

What happened to " there is no compulsion in matters of religion ?" Anyway what compulsion did Muhhammad need being a prophet his word was law, he restricted men to only four wives when he himself had more than four, that was a convenient exemption for Muhhammad.

So, Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad, and 3 years later, i.e. when Aisha was 9, the marriage was consumed. And Muhammad was 53 then [SAHIH BUKHARI 5:236,7:64,7:65,7:88] .

The 3 year waiting period probably had to do with the fact that at that time Aisha had contracted some disease, whereby she, temporarily lost her hair. Aisha was then socially and psychologically still a child as is evidenced by the fact that she was still given to her toys, she was unaware of what was happening around her, and her playmates behave as would the children at present times [Sahih Bukhari 8:151,5:234].

Aisha became Muhammad's favourite wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant [ SAHIH BUKHARI .1.270, 3:36, 7:6, 3:148, 3:149, 3:150, 7:142, IbnSa'd 1pg165 ]. Later, Aisha was to be called the "mother of believers".

If you are wandering, yes, the relationship was pedophilic.

also this is absolutely repugnant

Inspired By Islam (What the most famous cleric has to say):

From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 :

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence throughout her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
[...]
It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.

The passage that mostly bothers me (and I think it is actually in the Hadith and not the Koran) is the verse that mentions the slaughtering of Jews. It says something like the Jews will be hiding behind trees and rocks as the Muslims invade and the rocks cry out, "Here is a Jew hiding behind me! Come and kill him!"

Can a Muslim shed some light on this passage and the context?

reply to post by masonica_esoterica


Hey masonica! Here is some information about Aishah that I posted in another thread (where the guy linked the same article as you, I think):

Originally posted by babloyi
There is much debate about the actual age of A'ishah when she got married to Muhammad. Originally she was meant to marry another person, but he broke it off due to religious differences. While there is 1 Hadith from Sahih Bukhari that says directly that A'ishah was 9 at this time, it contradicts numerous other Hadith, and one of the people in the chain of narration (Hisham ibn `urwah) was very old, and suffered memory loss at the time that he related this and other Hadith (many of which are considered suspect).

Here is a (disorganised

) list:
* A'ishah got married in 1AH (1 year after the muslims migrated to Medinah from Mecca)
* According to Tabiri, all of Abu Bakr's (A'ishah's father) children were born during the Pre-Islamic period, which would put A'ishah at being AT LEAST 14 when she got married.
* When the 1st migration (to Abyssinia) occurred, Abu Bakr took Ayesha to the house of her betrothed (the guy before Muhammad), and asked him to take her into his house, which he refused for religious reasons. The Migration to Abyssinia took place 8 years before AH, so if Ayesha was 6 when she married Muhammad, she couldn't have even been alive at this time!
* According to the Kitab-ul-Tasfir, A'ishah was a "young girl" (as opposed to an infant) when the 54th Surah of the Quran was revealed. Surah Al-Qamar (the 54th surah) was revealed 9 years before AH.

As for the second quote, I'll let you see for yourself:
Muhammad alive: 570 - 632AD
Tahrirolvasyleh's author (Ayatullah Khomeini): 1902 - 1989AD

What has what this guy wrote got to do with Islam?

EDIT:
Y'know, I checked up that quote, and it seems that there are warnings about this '4th book' being a fake, and that exact same quote, occasionally with the sentence 'sodomising the child is OK' (which doesn't really match the rest of the speech- 'OK'? That is not even english) inserted in various anti-iran/anti-islam sites.


AshleyD, the quote you mentioned is in this very thread (as well as my response).

[edit on 31-1-2008 by babloyi]

You still haven't explained to me how Mohammed split the moon in half and then put it back together, and also why if the moon was literally split in half no other civilizations recorded it in the annals of history.I am sure you are aware that astronomy was important to nearly every culture in past times, and a celestial occurance such as that would definately have been recorded by other cultures had it happened.The fact that it wasn't recorded by non Muslims should be proof of its nonexistence.

reply to post by masonica_esoterica


Actually, the other civilisations DID notice that the moon split in half. There is even a info on how an Indian king accepted Islam after he verified the splitting of the moon with his astrologers during the lifetime of Muhammad.

But this is a miracle. It seems rather silly to be mentioning miracles, and using that as proof that something is not scientific. Almost every culture (especially the ones that claim to have furthered the cause of science) in the world has it's stories of miracles.

On a side note, more and more of the references on that site seem to be falling apart. For example, there is no "SAHIKH BUKHAR", and even if they are talking about the Sahih Bukhari, that set doesn't have a volume 17.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


Could you provide links to the information pertaining other civilizations noting the moon split?

Originally posted by babloyi
AshleyD, the quote you mentioned is in this very thread (as well as my response).

Hello, Babloyi. Just notice this line addressed to me at the bottom of your response. I scanned the thread to see if it was asked before posting it and now that you said it was brought up and you answered it, I briefly scanned the thread once over to see where it was, didn't see it, then rescanned the thread a little more thoroughly. Still didn't see it. I believe you when you say it is in this thread but for some reason it is escaping me. Can you link to where this is discussed in this thread? Thanks.

reply to post by AshleyD


Skyfloating first mentioned it on the first page, here, and I replied to it here.

Somewhat mixed up, I admit, but it is there. Also, just to clarify (and because I like being thorough), you wouldn't call something from the Hadith a 'verse'. It is more like a 'commentary', or 'saying', because the sayings of Muhammad are not formally a book (like the Quran asserts to be), but a collection of sayings that were collected from his followers (and the followers of his followers, and so on), after his death.

Truth be told, I'm not a hadith scholar, so when I check up a Hadith, I first check it up against the Quran, and if it doesn't seem to have any problem, I check up some literature on the narrators (either from a book or from the web). That particular hadith doesn't seem to match up with the Quran, and I can't find any version of it that has the complete chain of narrators (just that it was narrated by Abu Hurrairah).


reply to post by Xenogears


Here are some links with some information:

www.cyberistan.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

I can't believe that anyone would believe that moons were split in half with no scientific proof and that Allah turned the jews into apes for disobeying.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I tried reading the Koran last summer- just to try to get some bearing on it. It boggled my mind so much- it was like ramblings of a mad man that was my first thought. But perhaps I didn't didn't take the time and read it with a open mind.

I just feel no one should be forced into a religion. A friend of mine who is muslim- I asked him whats it said since I couldn't read it because it was in Arabic. And he couldn't read it. Hmmm go figure.



[edit on 2/9/2008 by Leyla]