Eric Phelps, the Jesuits and the Freemasons

That sort of logic fails. Give me one example where the vatican was telling their entire congregation not to join an institution - but was secretly working with the institution behind the scene. And when you give it, lets see that peer reviewed source (not a conspiracy website, anyone could put that up).

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Is that directed at my post?

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Ooops. No, sorry I thought I hit "reply to" - its directed at the guy who said that since the Vatican has lied to us before, the must be lying to us about masonry.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


I see you know very little about the workings of the Vatican or the history of the Roman Catholic church, something I would have assumed most people on this site would know. Do some research on it and you will find the examples you are looking for....and what are you saying about from a "credible source", I find that laughable, when you say credible source do you mean "MAINSTREAM-APPROVAL" (presumably the users of this forum already know the mainstream newsmedia is very heavily censored and in a league with the powers who control society, ie. the Vatican, through freemasonry, lluminati bloodlines, knights of malta etc): Considering that the Vatican control most of the worlds mainstream media, through their Knights of Malta, you won't find the mainstream media coming out against them. However you will still find lots of information if you look for it.

This thread has Eric Phelps name in the title. How many readers of this thread have actually read Phelps updated book??? It is also telling that Phelps book has been banned from every major bookstore and the new version isn't offered for sale on amazon or ebay and when Phelps sold a copy to a reader in UK he had to change the name on the parcel, otherwise it would be sent back...while at the same time many of the other so-called "conspiracy truth" books don't suffer the same suppression at all. I would suggest someone should actually read a persons book before passing judgement on it.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by iezuit]

reply to post by iezuit


Nah, a four year degree in religion, I couldn't possibly know anything about the Vatican! You should learn that just because all of history is _against_ what you say might hint at the fact that you could be...wrong.

You can spin it all your like, but I am still waiting for one credible source. I know that upsets you because...you won't find any credible sources. It is not up to me to prove your outrageous claims. Its called the burden of proof principle. Do some research and you will find that you are wrong...and that every "conspiracy site" is not a research source, I find that laughable that you think they are, I say credible source I mean "PEER REVIEWED ACADEMIC JOURNAL" which if you had any insight into proper research would know has nothing to do with "mainstream" approval. But of course, I'm sure you'll make up a conspiracy about them to.

When you make up a conspiracy that everyone is lying to you except the things that fit your preconceived notions, it helps simplify your world. Unfortunately, such tactics do NOT reflect reality.



[edit on 17-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by iezuit


As someone who knows a great deal about the Vatican and the Church's history, I can be fairly certain your .. I say this lightly.. "study" has not come from any, historical, source at all. I would venture to say you read a few shrewed websites and watched a few gimick like programs on YouTube and have now self sufficiently anyways, know everything there is to know.

There is a reason why Masonry is not allowed to Catholics, and it has to do with liberal ideologies.. when Masonry was formed and when it was first targeted by the Church it was done so (as with the Anglican Church, Lutheran Church, Church of Ireland, and so on and so forth and present day protestants copied them) because Masonry preached enlightenment ideas that became very prevalent during the mid-late 1700's and early 1800's. Not only that, but they went a step forward and did not just destroy economic classes in society as members joined, but also allowed any member to join, Christian or not! Of course when Masonry was first founded or at least was becoming more popular in the 1600's they allowed Catholic and Protestants to join, which was highly taboo.

To say the Church uses Masonry as a tool of some kind is .. illogical for a start, and incredibly ignorant given their history. The Church has (imo sometimes more powerful) instruments to use.. like Opus Dei, the Jesuits (older then Masonry perhaps, they where once a powerful networked of highly educated spies) ..

Not everything is a lie, and not everything is a conspiracy, and the Church still to this day does not like Masonry.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


And what exactly does that mean, it justs highlights how misinformed you are (or brainwashed). As I said, do some proper research, and religion course you studied came from the very people who are controlling the system. They are hardly going to tell you of the connections of the Jesuit Order to the French Revolution, Napoleonic Wars, Hitlers atrocities, Pavelics atrocities. Most of that is covered up. But what anyone can research is the Inquisitions, have you? If you have then you will be on your way to finding much hypocrisy and lies from the Vatican. If you don't wish to study that then how about Hitlers connections to the Vatican? Or maybe you could explain why Joeseph Stalin restored the Jesuits in Russia after 102 years of suppression (which followed with the purges of the russian Orthodox church). Or can you explain why the leading Roman Catholic Order, the Jesuits were restored after being surpressed forever, and why was a Jesuit Priest by the name of Emmanuel Seiyes involved in the French revolution and brought Napoleon to power and was second Consul during his reign. Explain to us what the 30 years war was all about. And what about former priests who have come forward declaring that many of the high-level preists are freemasons, I guess they are not credible enough either. Did they teach you anything interesting in those 4 years or was it wasted on prayers?

Even a study of the Borgias would be a good start, you would begin to see what the Roman Catholic church was really all about, or Constantine would be another good one, did you know he even refused to be baptised until he was almost dead, quite strange behaviour considering he was the first Pope!!! Yet the church preaches that everyone should be baptised.

Did the Church preach about molesting small children from the pulpits, because it seems the priests practised it alot? You don't have to look very hard to find much hypocrisy in the Roman Catholic Church. Maybe you could explain to non-Roman Catholics why the Vatican permitted Ante Pavelic to live in the Vatican for a number of months before they permitted him to escape to South America after WWII, and when any readers ask who Pavelic was don't forget to tell them that he had close links with Hitler, he was the bloody leader of Croatia who oversaw the murder of 800,000 people in approx 100 days, all with the blessing of the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Zagreb Cardinal Stepinac, and don't forget to mention that Stepinac, who used to bless Pavelic's Ustashi killers actually took control of the barbaric Ustashi for a spell after Pavelic fled. Also don't forget to include the bit about Stepinac being arrested by Yugoslav authorities for his crimes, he died under house arrest, and amazingly in 1998 Pope John Paul II beatified the mass-murdering Nazi criminal Stepinac. Did they teach you that in your religion course, and yes, the Vatican links to Croatis during WWII have been proven, just as they have been with Nazi Germany. Did you know that Himmlers uncle was a Roman Catholic Priest that even served in the SS? Also there are many photos of priests in Croatia and Franco's Spain dressed in military outfits taking part in killings? I hope your course didn't skip those details and explained why the Vatican was involved in mass-slaughter. Even a study of the instruments of torture and death that the Roman Catholic church used for hundreds of years during the Inquisitions is totally sick and twisted. Did your 4-year course explain how those were consistent with the teachings of the Church?

[edit on 17-1-2008 by iezuit]

reply to post by Rockpuck

You would be very incorrect, but it suits you to draw that conclusion.

In fact I reread through your post and it shows you know very little

[edit on 17-1-2008 by iezuit]

reply to post by iezuit


I have replied to your previous post on this thread and explained that the thread does not require the reader to have read Phelps, I am not directly interested in Phelps, more on the opinion of Freemasons on what Phelps says. As I have stated in the previous post, which I believe is at the bottom of page one on this thread, you really ought to read more carefully and not assume you know what is being said.

Phelps cannot get published because he spews hate and vitriol. Not because it is a conspiracy but because it isn't up to publishing standards. Or it may simply be due to a lack of popularity, there is quite a marginal market for that type of thing.

Please read my previous post and then you can refute my comments, until then I will assume that you are simply marketing Phelps' 'work'. You're not Eric Phelps are you? If so it would be much easier if you just admitted to it, if not you certainly are a most devoted devotee.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


You are mistaken, unlike you I have read Phelps book, he only shows his disgust towards people who are involved in murders and corruption. Even Jesus threw the corrupt merchants out of the Temples. You are prejudiced against him without knowing anything about his book. It has nothing to do with hate and is a study of the Jesuit Order, who have been expelled from dozens of countries, it would be a good questions to ask why they were expelled so much, why the communities hated the Jesuits enough to expell them, and why even the Roman Catholic authorities themselves surpressed the Jesuits forever, only to miraculously change their minds later!!!

And if you have no interest in Phelps then why his name at the start of the thread, try to be consistent, and have you even read what Phelps has said about Freemasonry??? Or have you merely parroted a few cherry-picked quotes that didn't give the full picture of what he was saying?

Society has become far too complacent, I don't see anything wrong with Phelps showing a strong dislike for murderers. Look at what GW Bush and Blair have done to Iraq, and most people are willing to merely turn a blind eye, a shrug of the shoulders, but instead we should be outraged at the abuses that have been commited by out governments, I don't see anything wrong with Phelps speaking out against the corruption in the world where he sees it.

Even Otto Von Bismarck threw the Jesuits out of Germany, and tried to remove the Roman Catholic church from his empire, and that certainly wasn't driven out of hate, it was done out of a desire to free Germany from the corruption of the Vatican.

Originally posted by iezuit
This thread has Eric Phelps name in the title. How many readers of this thread have actually read Phelps updated book??? It is also telling that Phelps book has been banned from every major bookstore and the new version isn't offered for sale on amazon or ebay and when Phelps sold a copy to a reader in UK he had to change the name on the parcel, otherwise it would be sent back...while at the same time many of the other so-called "conspiracy truth" books don't suffer the same suppression at all. I would suggest someone should actually read a persons book before passing judgement on it.

Hmm.

I just checked Amazon.com; they have his book for sale, as well as the CD.

I checked with Barnes and Noble, and they said they can order the book.

The biggest flaw with your argument about the book being 'banned' is that, well, it's not. He appears to have self-published the book, doesn't have a mainstream publisher (given the length and the pictures and everything, that doesn't surprise me), doesn't have a marketing plan (other than to claim it's banned), and only seems to sell it through the 'some guy' network.

So - to claim it's banned - is incorrect.

Your pal,
Meat.

reply to post by iezuit


It's hilarious that while the overwhelming evidence says your wrong...everyone who disagrees with you is "misinformed or brainwashed."

I am still WAITING for ONE example supported by a peer reviewed source. You can spout off conspiracy theories everyday, anyone can make one up. For example, I think your in a conspiracy and part of a NWO disinformation campaign. Prove me wrong. No, I don't have any sources...but if you disagree your misinformed or brainwashed!

No matter how much you want to believe in things that are wrong, they won't become true. I highly dislike Catholicism, but my dislike is grounded in _reality_ and backed with _evidence_.

So, how is that peer reviewed source coming?

reply to post by mmmeat


amazon have never yet sold his updated book, until last week (unless the position changed meantime) they offered his older book at $500, even though the new one can be bought for $40.

Barnes & Noble and all the other bookstores refused to stock any of his books, they have said that they can get a copy if a customer specifically orders it. That is a form of suppression, meanwhile books from Icke and other "conspiracy theorists" were stocked on the shelves

reply to post by LightinDarkness



Who is everyone??? Most people I deal with are aware of the true history of the Vatican (I grew up in a Roman Catholic community), just because a few posters here don't know about it doesn't mean anything, only that you are uneducated about it. I have already detailed some info that you can work on, you will find much information of it documented in numersous sources. Start with either the history of the church, Constantine, or the Inquistions, or maybe the Borgias, and by the time you have reached the 20th century you will already have a good picture of the church and won't be at all surprised to learn of the Vaticans proven connections to the mass slaughter during WWII period

I could show you many sources, but even a small effort to search for it and you will find the information yourself, why not follow it up. Learn the history of the catholic church, you don't expect me to teach it to you when it is available if you make the effort. For readers of a "conspiracy" website you guys seems to know very little.

www.catholicnewsagency.com...

[edit on 17-1-2008 by iezuit]

reply to post by iezuit


You have no idea what happens when someone self-publishes a book, do you? It means you can't get a company to publish it, because the company knows it wont sell. There are plenty of crazy conspiracy books that get published that are fantastical, and they sale because people will read them. These are not being sold because no publishing company thinks they would sale. And they won't.

I can self publish anything I want. If I write a book about how the anti-masons are crazy, will you come to my defense and start proclaiming some conspiracy on the part of anti-masons when publishers don't publish it and book stores wont sell it because - gasp - its a business and they only sell things they someone will actually buy?

Originally posted by iezuit
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

You would be very incorrect, but it suits you to draw that conclusion.

In fact I reread through your post and it shows you know very little

[edit on 17-1-2008 by iezuit]

OK.

I bow to the master of historical knowledge.

The Church controls everything, along with evil Joos and evil Masons are tools to take over the world! We all gunna die!

Phelps is, honestly, a freaking moron, no sense of history what so ever. Aside from his historical retardation, he is also a bigot, and in my eyes a disgusting person.

And my view of you for supporting his anti-Catholic anti-Semitic, anti-Masonic, ideas are hardly better.

reply to post by Rockpuck


A lame an infantile reply you made, and no effort to discuss any of the ENORMOUS crimes the Roman Catholic church has commited on humanity, not only through the total hypocrisy of its teachings, the evil Popes through the ages who have been responsible for many crimes, but in more recent times the links between the Vatican and Hitler and all the other fascist leaders of europe.

Your historical education of the church appears non-existant or you simply prefer to turn a blind eye to it. The Roman Catholic Church has a long history of oppressing Jews and peoples of other religious affiliations, thats where the hatred lies, in killing and torturing people for not worshipping the Pope!!!! Anyone who knows the history of the Catholic Church would not attempt to defend it.
Try reading this one, you might learn something
www.holocaustrevealed.org...

[edit on 17-1-2008 by iezuit]

Originally posted by iezuit
amazon have never yet sold his updated book, until last week (unless the position changed meantime) they offered his older book at $500, even though the new one can be bought for $40.

Barnes & Noble and all the other bookstores refused to stock any of his books, they have said that they can get a copy if a customer specifically orders it. That is a form of suppression, meanwhile books from Icke and other "conspiracy theorists" were stocked on the shelves

Now hold on there just a minute, mister smarty-pants. You said:

Originally posted by iezuit
This thread has Eric Phelps name in the title. How many readers of this thread have actually read Phelps updated book??? It is also telling that Phelps book has been banned from every major bookstore and the new version isn't offered for sale on amazon or ebay and when Phelps sold a copy to a reader in UK he had to change the name on the parcel, otherwise it would be sent back...while at the same time many of the other so-called "conspiracy truth" books don't suffer the same suppression at all. I would suggest someone should actually read a persons book before passing judgement on it.

So ... which is it? Is it sold or not sold on Amazon (keep in mind that I did check)?

Is it banned or not banned at bookstores?

You're saying both, and I firmly believe that you're wrong in all cases, and that you're not very familiar with retail sales.

You're barking up the wrong tree, dude; the guy self-publishes, that means that no one wants to publish it, he doesn't have an agent, and no one wants to market it but the writer.

There are LOTS of self-publishers in the same boat. They're not banned, they're just unpopular, or have a huge ego. For your edification, self-publishing is also known in the industry as 'vanity press.' The best definition of this industry is:

The term 'vanity' comes from the belief that anyone who uses this type of publishing must be vain and that they just want to see their name on the cover of a book. Because of this, it is not a recommended publishing method for authors who are making a concerted effort to make money as a career writers, build their reputations, and/or mass-distribute their work.

From Wikipedia, HERE.

Sorry to burst your bubble ... bit it is kind of a Sybil-like bubble, so maybe it needs poppin'.

Your pal,
Meat.

reply to post by iezuit


The crimes the Church has committed have nothing to do with this discussion.. the topic at hand is does the Church affiliate or manipulate the Freemasons, or government or what ever else Phelps seems to believe, which the answer was no.

We could go on and on about the Crimes of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, what ever. Completely beside the point.

reply to post by Rockpuck


No, they are central to the point raised by one of the previous posters who wanted examples of the hypocrisy and lies of the church