Who has the best Special Forces ?

IFAThunderpilot

You so full of brown stuff l can smell you from England.Please put all your comments in one post there are enough pages on this subject already without you adding more.
One comment on your SF how come you haven`t been very succesfull.I mean to say you train Sf who are engaged in operations of various kinds all over the World from beating drug trafficing,covert ops too HRT, Jungle,Gureilla warfare yet you have no operational experiance other than street fighting a bunch of civillians.
Your Airforce is currently shooting at Palestinians who don`t poses planes.
When was the last time you had a succesful or unsuccesful HRT operation against real Terrorist and please don`t include Palastinians as there are very few who have recieved Training in anything other than basic explosives.

When your country has engaged in a real conflict against a proffesional enemy then you have the right to disrespect other countries who have proven themselves.

Unit 269 that carried out the raid at Entebbe is the only Israely unit worth a mention and that was very near a cluster#

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

The stupid here is you
I have no atentions to try explain again about Israeli special forces. Youc ould read again what I have posted again.

When? Uhm well lets see- how about every day?
90% of the operations conduced by SF of Israel are unknown, and that happens every day to maintain Israel a fact in the map.
You want prroves they train you? Look after "Red Flag" in google.
Want a proove that Israeli pilots are the best in teh world? how about that IAF kill ratio in Israeli-Arab wars was 200-40 for Israel favor when the arabs had the top soviet planes that were way better than the fernch and american planes Israel had? And that arabs had about 1000 more planes than Israel, when most of them are way better than Israeli planes? Or in 1982 Lebanon war when in single day IAF shot down 29 Syrian planes without a single lost, then destrying teh entire syrian SAM system in 3 hours, and till the and of the war the kill ratio of IAF and Syrian air force was 100-0 for Israel, yeap thats right 100-0.

Show me another air force that its pilots get 6 days training per week, and a good amount fo hours in each day and constent alerts every day? Or how about the Red Flag when year after year IAF wins USAF pilots and RAF pilots in dog fights? In recent competition by the way, IAF was first place, then RAF was second and USAF was third. In the recent competition the "kill ratio" betwin IAF and German air force for example was 23:1 for IAF favor.

Or what about teh fact that UK sf and US sf had briefs from IDF sf before and during the war in iraq on how to fight terrorists who hides behind civilians? You seem to have forgotten this...

You only know this unit that was part of Sayeret Matkal, because the rest are secret, you hear nothing about their day to day operations against terrorism in gaza and nearby arab countries to maintain israels existment.
However your SF love to show off and publish their work. I cant blaim them- after all no one will look to kill them after it, they are not under constent threats.

The fact there werent any large wars here since 1973 is because arabs learned the lessons and because the work of Mossad and SF of Israel. If ther daily work wasnt perfect, you would probebly see on your BBC constent reports about terror attacks in Israel.
Israeli SF, are responcible for stopping about 95% of the terror attacks aimed against Israel.

You are a yourself!

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
The stupid here is you

I have no atentions to try explain again about Israeli special forces. Youc ould read again what I have posted again.

When? Uhm well lets see- how about every day?
90% of the operations conduced by SF of Israel are unknown, and that happens every day to maintain Israel a fact in the map.
You want prroves they train you? Look after "Red Flag" in google.
Want a proove that Israeli pilots are the best in teh world? how about that IAF kill ratio in Israeli-Arab wars was 200-40 for Israel favor when the arabs had the top soviet planes that were way better than the fernch and american planes Israel had? And that arabs had about 1000 more planes than Israel, when most of them are way better than Israeli planes? Or in 1982 Lebanon war when in single day IAF shot down 29 Syrian planes without a single lost, then destrying teh entire syrian SAM system in 3 hours, and till the and of the war the kill ratio of IAF and Syrian air force was 100-0 for Israel, yeap thats right 100-0.

Show me another air force that its pilots get 6 days training per week, and a good amount fo hours in each day and constent alerts every day? Or how about the Red Flag when year after year IAF wins USAF pilots and RAF pilots in dog fights? In recent competition by the way, IAF was first place, then RAF was second and USAF was third. In the recent competition the "kill ratio" betwin IAF and German air force for example was 23:1 for IAF favor.

Or what about teh fact that UK sf and US sf had briefs from IDF sf before and during the war in iraq on how to fight terrorists who hides behind civilians? You seem to have forgotten this...

Wow the brown smell just getting stronger and stronger

Does Israel women make the best lovers,does Israel make the best cars,does Israel do anything bad

Please show some adult respect at least before you leave school

Nope Israel doesnt make cars, it makes top warriors.

To be honest you are the one who seem to be still in school and acting like a little kid.

Originally posted by weirdo
IFAThunderpilot

You so full of brown stuff l can smell you from England.Please put all your comments in one post there are enough pages on this subject already without you adding more.
One comment on your SF how come you haven`t been very succesfull.I mean to say you train Sf who are engaged in operations of various kinds all over the World from beating drug trafficing,covert ops too HRT, Jungle,Gureilla warfare yet you have no operational experiance other than street fighting a bunch of civillians.
Your Airforce is currently shooting at Palestinians who don`t poses planes

.
When was the last time you had a succesful or unsuccesful HRT operation against real Terrorist and please don`t include Palastinians as there are very few who have recieved Training in anything other than basic explosives.

When your country has engaged in a real conflict against a proffesional enemy then you have the right to disrespect other countries who have proven themselves.

Unit 269 that carried out the raid at Entebbe is the only Israely unit worth a mention and that was very near a cluster#

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

lol. Its really sad to see how one is unaware of the amount of bs he writes.

"Street fighting a bunch of civilians" - give me a break. The CQB and urban fighting with Palestinian terrorists is actually much more complex than most other types of SF operations, and surely much more complex than shooting some iraqis or afgans in open desert - which is the only expirience US and British SF currently have.

And yes - our units also were in Iraq - not even a single soldier died, and not a single team was ever exposed by iraqis (unlike the US sf, for example).

Israel fought in extremely complex wooden areas with lots of vegetation and mines in lebanon, I guess you never heard of that.

As for our airforce - our list of achievments is much more greater than any UK or US air operation in modern times (not to mention - that unlike Israel - the USAF and RAF don't do anything other than bombing buildings... thats gotta be difficult) Our planes, btw, don't take part in fighting with the Palestinians - another fact you know nothing about. And our helicopter pilots - which perform both combat and transport missions - are prolly the most experienced pilots in the whole world.

Overall - our IAF missions were in fact much more complex and successfull than any USAF or RAF mission in Iraq or Afganistan.

Here is a small list of achievments from wikipedia:

1967 - the Six Day War: The destruction of the entire Egyptian air-force within 3 hours. By the end of the day the Syrian and Jordanian air forces were wiped out as well. The IAF shoot-down total at the end of the war was a claimed record of 451 enemy aircraft downed versus of its own 10 downed. See: Operation Red Sheet.
Obtaining the first shoot-downs for the American fighter jets, the F-15 and the F-16.
1981: The destruction of the Iraqi Osiraq nuclear reactor. Four IAF F-16 fighters flew to Iraq and bombed the nuclear facilties of Osiraq. Among the pilots that took part in the attack was the late Ilan Ramon, Israel's first astronaut.
1982: The destruction of the entire Syrian air-defence system in Lebanon without a single warplane lost.
1985: The bombing of PLO Headquarters in Tunis, Tunisia, the longest mission ever undertaken by the IAF.
The only documented emergency landing of an F-15 with only one wing.
39 IAF pilot shot down at least 5 jet planes, 10 out of them shot down at least 8 jet planes.
Major General Giora Epstein shot down 17 (seventeen) jet planes, holding the world record of jets shot down. [1]

"Please don't include palestinians" - heh, this actually made me laugh. You can say whatever you like to express your ignorance, but at least make sure it has some sense in it.

The Palestinians are terrorists as all terrorists are. They are as trained as the Chechnians, The Iraqis and the Afgans (and surely much better trained than the Somalians). In some cases they even more trained than that(and this is because many Palestinians terrorists train abroad). As for successful HRT operations - we had prolly more of those than SAS, SBS, SEALs, Delta and spetznaz alltogether.

Unit 269 is unit MATKAL IAFthunderpilot was talking about, and its no longer called 269 - yet another fact you know nothing about.

Israel also invented a whole new type of extremely complex operations - covert operations being done by soldiers dressed as the enemy. Another thing which most other special forces know very little about (and actually coming to Israel in order to learn).


"Poffesional enemy"? yeah right, like the very "Proffesional" Al-Quaeda or taliban fighters, or the "Proffesional" Iraqi soldiers which barely even had an army?. Or maybe you mean the "Proffesional" chechnians or the skillful Somalians which killed delta soldiers and rangers?

In fact in the past 50 years we have fought with more proffesional armies than both UK and US (Joradan, Egypt, Syria, etc...).

Learn some facts before you post your bs ffs.

BTW, when was the last time the SAS/SBS took over a ship without firing even a single shot? (or took over a ship at all)




[edit on 30/10/04 by Transc3ndent]

I agree with you in 100% there bro.
You are simply right, this guy is a total idiot.

Transc3ndent.Respect to you cos l like your post and views.Its nice to hear from countries with educated no bigoted people like you that aren`t American

IAF guy you just a narrow minded armcahair rambo.If you knew or hand any experiance of SF you would realise you cannot judge a countries abillity and classify them as being the best.You would also no that members of SF including the Americans have a mutual respect for each other as we no the difficulties being part of a unit that requires you to operate in the most hostile areas at very little notice.The amount of dificulties that puts on your personnel life as well as the job is harder than you can imaging.Then reading your crappy post is really annoying.The whole point of this thread really is a waste of time because you cannot prove who is the best until they all take part in a joint competition.
As for the Jordanian military we trained them.I was part of a training team sent in.Syria has good relations as well.Eygpt well hahahahahahah.

I have a respect for the Israelies.I`m sure you could argue for hours

I'll agree here - Israel tops the world in in murderous A-holes deluxe
The US and Britain follow slaveringly in the ways of subterfuge and dissembling, snipering children , press, peace demonstrators, old ladies.
Burying populations under bulldozers
Abducting atomic weapon whistleblowers from foreign hotels and keeping them imprisoned for years on end under appalling conditions
Some strange involvement in 911
Massacres in Lebanese camps
Massacres in Palestinian camps
Yippee - let's hear it for the IDF, Mossad, Shin Beth and all these other cutting edge special forces

They are the best and most ruthless killers known to humankind - leaders amongst leaders

btw - no anti-semite me, just praising the frontrunners
State of play!

www.isayeret.com...

So if you guys so good how come you take mandotory IDF personnel that come from civillians into SF.
IDF SF Schools teach only the basic techniques.15-20 months training leaving 1 year to engage in actual combat because of budgetary problems even SF units operators rarely serve more than the IDF Mandotary service.
If Sayeret Matkal & Sayeret Shaldog soilders are so tough why have they refusedto continue the Contact training in there CT course unless the contact combat brutallity level was reduced.Other units with less influence continue to take the abuse in the CT course.
The 1974 Mahalot High School icidant was a bit of an embarresment after 20 civillian hostages were killed in a failed rescue attempt by Sayeret Matkal.
Or the Israelies plan to assinate Saddam Hussein was cancelled after 5 members of Sayeret Matkil were killed when a live missile was fired at them by mistake during the final run of the plan.
Sorry to quote from a web page as l have been out for a few years and never had the pleasure of the Israelies.



[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
Israeli Sayeret Matkal is the best special force in the world, leaving SAS and Delta Force way behind. The fact you hear very little about them, is due to their top secret missions and secret existment, but the fact is that State of Israel doesnt get bombed by terrorists every day, is also due the work of Syeret Matkal.

I hate to say it, but have you watched the news lately?

OK, Palestinians have changed tactics and suicide bombers are the hardest to prevent, but Israel is being hit damn near every day. Get some different evidence.

Not necessarily arguing with your claim 'though!

Originally posted by Transc3ndent

Originally posted by weirdo
IFAThunderpilot

You so full of brown stuff l can smell you from England.Please put all your comments in one post there are enough pages on this subject already without you adding more.
One comment on your SF how come you haven`t been very succesfull.I mean to say you train Sf who are engaged in operations of various kinds all over the World from beating drug trafficing,covert ops too HRT, Jungle,Gureilla warfare yet you have no operational experiance other than street fighting a bunch of civillians.
Your Airforce is currently shooting at Palestinians who don`t poses planes

.
When was the last time you had a succesful or unsuccesful HRT operation against real Terrorist and please don`t include Palastinians as there are very few who have recieved Training in anything other than basic explosives.

When your country has engaged in a real conflict against a proffesional enemy then you have the right to disrespect other countries who have proven themselves.

Unit 269 that carried out the raid at Entebbe is the only Israely unit worth a mention and that was very near a cluster#

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

lol. Its really sad to see how one is unaware of the amount of bs he writes.

"Street fighting a bunch of civilians" - give me a break. The CQB and urban fighting with Palestinian terrorists is actually much more complex than most other types of SF operations, and surely much more complex than shooting some iraqis or afgans in open desert - which is the only expirience US and British SF currently have.

And yes - our units also were in Iraq - not even a single soldier died, and not a single team was ever exposed by iraqis (unlike the US sf, for example).

Israel fought in extremely complex wooden areas with lots of vegetation and mines in lebanon, I guess you never heard of that.

As for our airforce - our list of achievments is much more greater than any UK or US air operation in modern times (not to mention - that unlike Israel - the USAF and RAF don't do anything other than bombing buildings... thats gotta be difficult) Our planes, btw, don't take part in fighting with the Palestinians - another fact you know nothing about. And our helicopter pilots - which perform both combat and transport missions - are prolly the most experienced pilots in the whole world.

Overall - our IAF missions were in fact much more complex and successfull than any USAF or RAF mission in Iraq or Afganistan.

Here is a small list of achievments from wikipedia:

1967 - the Six Day War: The destruction of the entire Egyptian air-force within 3 hours. By the end of the day the Syrian and Jordanian air forces were wiped out as well. The IAF shoot-down total at the end of the war was a claimed record of 451 enemy aircraft downed versus of its own 10 downed. See: Operation Red Sheet.
Obtaining the first shoot-downs for the American fighter jets, the F-15 and the F-16.
1981: The destruction of the Iraqi Osiraq nuclear reactor. Four IAF F-16 fighters flew to Iraq and bombed the nuclear facilties of Osiraq. Among the pilots that took part in the attack was the late Ilan Ramon, Israel's first astronaut.
1982: The destruction of the entire Syrian air-defence system in Lebanon without a single warplane lost.
1985: The bombing of PLO Headquarters in Tunis, Tunisia, the longest mission ever undertaken by the IAF.
The only documented emergency landing of an F-15 with only one wing.
39 IAF pilot shot down at least 5 jet planes, 10 out of them shot down at least 8 jet planes.
Major General Giora Epstein shot down 17 (seventeen) jet planes, holding the world record of jets shot down. [1]

"Please don't include palestinians" - heh, this actually made me laugh. You can say whatever you like to express your ignorance, but at least make sure it has some sense in it.

The Palestinians are terrorists as all terrorists are. They are as trained as the Chechnians, The Iraqis and the Afgans (and surely much better trained than the Somalians). In some cases they even more trained than that(and this is because many Palestinians terrorists train abroad). As for successful HRT operations - we had prolly more of those than SAS, SBS, SEALs, Delta and spetznaz alltogether.

Unit 269 is unit MATKAL IAFthunderpilot was talking about, and its no longer called 269 - yet another fact you know nothing about.

Israel also invented a whole new type of extremely complex operations - covert operations being done by soldiers dressed as the enemy. Another thing which most other special forces know very little about (and actually coming to Israel in order to learn).


"Poffesional enemy"? yeah right, like the very "Proffesional" Al-Quaeda or taliban fighters, or the "Proffesional" Iraqi soldiers which barely even had an army?. Or maybe you mean the "Proffesional" chechnians or the skillful Somalians which killed delta soldiers and rangers?

In fact in the past 50 years we have fought with more proffesional armies than both UK and US (Joradan, Egypt, Syria, etc...).

Learn some facts before you post your bs ffs.

BTW, when was the last time the SAS/SBS took over a ship without firing even a single shot? (or took over a ship at all)

[edit on 30/10/04 by Transc3ndent]

When was the last time the Royal Navy shot at and sank a USN ship? Wasn't this century. Or the last one.

Syria, Egypt, professional? don't make me laugh.

Otto Skorzeny invented the "dress as the enemy op". Did it at the Ardennes, '44.

Hundreds of untrained idiots will eventually kill a small number of professionals. Professionals look to their safety, idiots don't.

To create terrorists you must first terrorise. Merkavas killing schoolkids is hardly the noble art of war.

Define modern. According to the dictionary it's enything from the industrial revolution on. Therefore everything the RAF has done is in "modern times".

ASAS (not to mention RAR and RNZR and NZSAS) fought in a lot of jungle areas with landmines and improvised booby traps in Malaya, Indonesia and VN, but I guess that doesn't count.

When it comes to urban warfare/streetfighting/street cqb I'll take any regiment in the British Army, let alone 3 Cdo Brigade. They wrote the book in NI. Try out DET 14 for experience.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
Israeli Sayeret Matkal is the best special force in the world, leaving SAS and Delta Force way behind. The fact you hear very little about them, is due to their top secret missions and secret existment, but the fact is that State of Israel doesnt get bombed by terrorists every day, is also due the work of Syeret Matkal.

I hate to say it, but have you watched the news lately?

OK, Palestinians have changed tactics and suicide bombers are the hardest to prevent, but Israel is being hit damn near every day. Get some different evidence.

Not necessarily arguing with your claim 'though!

Yes as an Israeli I have watched the news lately and the last terror attack was a month ago, and before that it was 2 months ago, and before that there were 6 months of quiet, and the quite is here today too.
the almost every day terror attacks were in 2001 and 2002, after IDF and mossad quickly took control over the situation and the result is 50% less attacks in 2003 and 85% less attaks in 2004.
Your media need to check its cameras perhaps?

Sorry not Mossad but Shabak. Shabak is an inside intelligence while Mossad is an abroad intelligence.

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
By the way those day to day conflicts with terrorism, are THE reason that american, british, german, australian and other special forces are learning from IDF special forces. The expirience.

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but the ASAS would kick Israeli ass when it came to jungle warfare. In fact the ASAS probably teach the Israeli's.

Keep dreaming, that a never real expirienced SF can beat a 57 day to day expirienced SF.
And eaven if they are better in jungle fightings (no jungles in the middle east), they are still very far from being good in urban fighting, and thats what USA, and UK and Germany and Australia and others are learning from IDF- Urban fighting.
As also they learn IDF's great victories in the Israeli-arab wars to ltrain their armies in a similar structure.

Bubble? I need to bubble, I can see myself the SF that are coming to Israel to learn. Thanks.

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
Keep dreaming, that a never real expirienced SF can beat a 57 day to day expirienced SF.
And eaven if they are better in jungle fightings (no jungles in the middle east), they are still very far from being good in urban fighting, and thats what USA, and UK and Germany and Australia and others are learning from IDF- Urban fighting.
As also they learn IDF's great victories in the Israeli-arab wars to ltrain their armies in a similar structure.

BS, Australia isn't taught by the Israeli's. Israel isn't superior in urban combat, that's a ridiculous statement. The Brit SAS wrote teh ook on CQB and Delta are regarded as the best in that field.
The reason Israel SF have a good record is because of the intelligence aparatus nothing more.

Also, becasue the Isarael SF can't jungle fight they are far less versatile and have far fewer skills. ASAS, Brit SAS, Delta and the SEALS have this capablity. Therefore making them superior.

[edit on 31-10-2004 by mad scientist]

First of all you sure dont know a lot about IDF special forces.
Second, IDF SF are sceret and dont write books as their operations are top secret eaven those tha happened years ago.
Third, if your claims are true (that Australia who has never had a real war) has better SF how would you explain the fact that IDF's Sayeret Matkal kicked the *** of Delta Force and British and Australian SAS in the last training in USA? And the previous? and the before previous?
If you dont believe this (which obviously you dont) look after them over the internet, there are trainings over usa in both ground and air competitions everey few years for the top world's armed forces. Interesting that IDF SF always win.
The ranks in the last ground training were: 1st place- IDF Sayeret Matkal. 2nd place- British SAS. 3rd place- US Delta Force. 4th place- Australian SAS. 5th was France and 6th was Germany. Look for it over the web.

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
First of all you sure dont know a lot about IDF special forces.
Second, IDF SF are sceret and dont write books as their operations are top secret eaven those tha happened years ago.
Third, if your claims are true (that Australia who has never had a real war) has better SF how would you explain the fact that IDF's Sayeret Matkal kicked the *** of Delta Force and British and Australian SAS in the last training in USA? And the previous? and the before previous?
If you dont believe this (which obviously you dont) look after them over the internet, there are trainings over usa in both ground and air competitions everey few years for the top world's armed forces. Interesting that IDF SF always win.
The ranks in the last ground training were: 1st place- IDF Sayeret Matkal. 2nd place- British SAS. 3rd place- US Delta Force. 4th place- Australian SAS. 5th was France and 6th was Germany. Look for it over the web.

Provide links to these so called competitions please. Earlier on in this thread a Brit was claiming the SAS kicked everyones ass in this competiton. As far as I'm concerned if you can't backup what you say it's BS. You get my drift