Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

I wouldn't worry about how they will have money. All they have to do is put up a casino and they'll have plenty of money. Native American lands are considered sovereign nations. I doubt that the U.S. would take that status away, it would cause too much trouble for the govt.

reply to post by geocom


Good point. But hearing things like 'they must take responsibility' is silly to me. These are not 3rd graders being kicked out of their homes. Sure maybe I have a strong image of natives of olde but they are certainly not 3rd graders who dont know responsibility.

something else i found that makes this move interesting.
and, i found out how bush is connected.

In a 131-page report, Inspector General Earl E. Devaney said he became aware of the problems associated with the system while investigating the Minerals Management Service. The agency commissioned the system in 1999 to handle over $8 billion in oil and gas payments on federal and Indian lands.

But eight years and $149 million later, the Minerals Revenue Management (MRM) Support System doesn't appear to be living up to its goals. Interior employees -- including an Indian trust manager who was ousted by the Bush administration -- have complained that the government, tribes and individual Indians have lost millions of dollars because the system doesn't work as promised.

"Consequently, many Indian people lost their homes, automobiles and livestock," Kevin Gambrell, the former director of the Farmington Indian Minerals Office, which oversees 8,000 Navajo landowners, said in Congressional testimony this past March.

In his report, Devaney lists some of the complaints against the system, which was developed by Accenture, a spin-off of the former Arthur Andersen accounting firm. Employees said it took twice as long to complete common tasks and that the system failed to bill and collect interest from energy companies who drill on federal and Indian lands.

source: www.indianz.com...

somehow......i see ken lay in all of this. just joking.....sorta.

So let's see, let's start to give land back.

Let's declare void the Louisiana purchase and give the land back to France, let's give all the land from the southern states back to Mexico because they say it belongs to them, then give the east coast back to England cause its because of them that many all here in the first place.

Let Puerto Rico, Guam and the U.S. Virgin Island be independent, Hawai and Alaska too while we at it.

Now to my point, as much as I can identify myself with the natives here, I don't think is going to happen and I'm not that sure that many of the people that live on those places want it to happen.

In Puerto Rico, people that want independence comprise only 5%percent of the voting population, you can't shove independance that way, as much as I want my island to be free.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


Agreed the land was considered not ceded by the U.S. but make no mistake if it is to the East of California west of Virginia south of Canada and North of Mexico the U.S. owns it or at least is the custodian..

As was pointed out by other parties there are Military Bases on some of these reserves and you can be certain that we aren't going to give these up and if we do it will be because of BRAC (base realignment and closure) or just to spite the locals to ruin the local economy..

I am not saying that any of these things that has ever happened is right in fact I really don't care who is right or wrong but to say that you are not going to honor a treaty on behalf of an entire nation is really irresponsibl and has the potential to put many in harms way whether that is economically or physically it is still being put in harms way...

I guess you can hoot and holler all you want about how great this is but the saying is true Haste makes Waste so you need to be careful with your decisions..


Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 12/20/2007 by geocom]

reply to post by forestlady


If the treaty is not honored the nation is no longer a sovereign Nation as the land was said to be not ceded in regards to the treaty otherwise it would have been or could be ceded.... Thereby negating any sovereignty they once had and become just another group of American tax payers..

Respectfully
GEO

Originally posted by geocom
The Native American of yesteryear has gone the way of the cowboy I mean it is not like they still send out hunting parties and such they live in houses and have normal jobs just like you and I..

Good point!

I went to school on the FlatHead Reservation in Ronan MT for Forestry and it was really no different than where I live now the biggest difference was the terrain everything else was the same schools, roads, phones (yep no smoke signals) offices, they even had real stores that you could shop in..

There is very little middle ground between the traditional nomadic hunter-gatherer (or primitive agricultural) Native lifestyle, and the modern "Western" settled one (which originated in Asia, BTW). That is the root of all the Native American people's troubles, and indeed the aboriginals of Australia, New Zealand, Siberia, Arabia, etc. I know, it's horrible what they all went through in the past 200 years or so, but looking back to an idealized past will not solve anything.

If anyone really wants to go back to living off the land like Grizzly Adams or the guy from the movie "Into the Wild", you have my blessings. But it's hardly practical for tens of thousands of people, especially if they have no real experience in wilderness survival. And I really doubt that the Lakota Nation (or its vocal leaders) have that in mind.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
The legality of this is probably a bit more advanced that we can summarise here, and will no doubt go down to the fine print. That's what I want to know, if they are going to fully go through with this.
Indeed, if they can make a tax haven and lure industries and businesses in, then they are set. They need to hire some country consultants

I was wondering about this...

Are they breaking away to make their own nation and revert to their traditional ways? .... Or do they plan to build some kind of post modern nation right in the middle of America?

Originally posted by superheterodyne
These people in my opinion are far more advanced than any common euro-american in that they dont need none of that. They are quite capable of doing things with the land that they have.

This is a form of racism, a racist attitude that people have held about American Indians for decades. The ideal of the "noble savage." Though it is a far-cry from the "blood-thirsty savage" stereotype, it is still condescending and patronizing. It is constructed and informed on old stereotypes of how people think an American indian should "behave." They are somehow unencumbered by the corruption of civilization has made them something "other-than" human, possessing traits both better-than and less-than normal (ie; white) humans.

Originally posted by infinite
with United Nations backing...

Figures. The UN doesn't want to help the Indians, it just wants to weaken the USA.

My question is this - how can the Lakota Indians withdraw treaties signed when in fact the US Government has already broken almost all the treaties it ever signed with the Indians. Do those treaties even really exist anymore??

I hope this country situation pans out well. Hopefully without fighting, and with a very good system internally concerning the social and governing aspects.

Would the current heavy powers allow this to happen? Since they still desire a
North American Union and
One World Government.

It will be interesting to see where this goes.



It would be great if anyone in the areas affected could tell us how this possible secession is going.

[edit on 20/12/2007 by Nyorai]

Well, _they_ have now a brilliant chance to test drive the FEMA camps by interrogating the "Indian terrorists"!

This is BIG NEWS. A Universal Uprising is taking place, within the spirit.::

reply to post by FlyersFan
Yes and no.
Yes they are still "valid" when applied to the Indians.
No when applied to the US goverment or to Big Companies.

reply to post by JSR


Good find! It's always about the oil, isn't it?

Keep on sleuthing and let us know what else you find

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Anybody who fights for what is right in these times of modern oppression ( and post oppression ) should be given nothing but respect. Even if it is just a slight posturing or what have you, I think it's a push in the right direction.

Is that really what they're fighting for?

Do not get me wrong here, I am not trying to impune Russell Means or anyone else. I agree with him on a great many things.

However, say this revolution takes place and holds (technically, if true it is a revolution, albeit peaceful). You can probably count on your hand the number of times the past century there have been revolutions or independence movements that formed countries, and it turned out well for anyone.

You mean that I don't have to move to Costa Rica or Toronto if Hillarity is elected? I can just move to Lakota Nation? Sweet!

looking at the source link on the OP, it stated the lakota will be visiting the embasies of bolivia chile south africa and venezuela.

i did a search for bolivia first, and found this.

Before meeting with the Native American leaders from the Haudenosaunee, Lakota and Cree nations, among others, Pres. Morales insisted that the gathering be small because he wanted to have a “frank and substantive” discussion on the issues shared by the native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.

.......

For his part, Pres. Morales, who is an Aymara Indian, emphasized the need for continued contacts between the Indigenous people of the hemisphere and stated that the “time has come for resistance to power.”

source: www.finalcall.com...

i think this would constitute a "resistance" to power.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


We'll see, man. They're talking about land and mineral rights now, we'll see where that takes them. We should all be watching this one carefully as many issues or the reasoning and justifications behind them become more apparent while researched with more and more interest. I don't think we know enough to speculate about a possible outcome. I'm excited to see what transpires.

its no surprise they went to venezuela too.

BOSTON -- The planned delivery of low-cost heating oil from Venezuela's CITGO Petroleum Corp. to Massachusetts and New York state is under way, while American Indians continue talks with CITGO to bring low-cost heating oil and gasoline to tribes. American Indian activist Robert Free Galvan, who is organizing efforts with CITGO, said Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is demonstrating to the world that there is another way to engage in the sale of oil and gas. "CITGO holds very highly their corporate social responsibility and ...

source: findarticles.com...

yup...its always the oil.....

[edit on 20-12-2007 by JSR]