FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by ULTIMA1

 

Excellent point. Considering DNA testing for positive ID was in its infancy then, and just beginning to be accepted by more courts across the nation.

It was not until the very late 90s, the human and other genome projects were actually getting recognition as being a valid source of positive ID of human beings. .......

Actually. DNA profiling (Genetic Finger Printing) was developed in 1984 by a British geneticist Sir Alec Jeffreys, and first used in forensic science to convict Colin Pitchfork in the 1988 Enderby murders case.

Infancy stage? hardly. The people assisitng with the identification of remains had an abundance of knowledge and experience. Please also remember 12 of the victims were identified by dental records. I will once agian remind you guys that I have posted the contact information to all those that were involved with the forensics of flight 93's passengers. Feel free to E-mail them.

reply to post by OrionStars


I never stated that i showed a picture with 95% of the wreckage. Don't try putting words in my mouth.

I posted quotes from the FBI agent that stated that 95% of the plane was recovered. I clearly stated that I do NOT have photos of this.

Orion... dance and spin all you want. Those with a brain can see right through you and Ivan. You have not backed up ANYTHING you claim with any evidence.

On the other hand, I have shown you both how wrong you really are.

Please, I ask you to show me where I am in error. I highly doubt you can.

reply to post by Boone 870


When people have already poisoned the minds of people, through bombardment of disinformation from the White House and media, including those who would be jurors, and then seat them as jurors on such a case, that case is already tainted as lacking credibility. The objectivity for a jury is already at least 85% non-existent.

It is a case where the prosecutor has already set up the defendant, in the minds of the jury, as being guilty until proved innocent. It has happened so often throughout US history. Now DNA evidence can easily free someone before they are wrongly imprisoned. Not so in the recent past.

The case, to which you refer, was a highly circumstantial case lacking physical evidence proved linked to the defendent, and presented to a heavily, negatively biased jury panel, toward the defendant, before the case even got to court.

If people do not believe some disreputable law enforcement agents and prosecutors play dirty tricks and plant false evidence, on people to get their DNA or fingerprints on items that were not there before, that is being naive.

I have seen anonymous people posting in blogs, and stating they are or were police officers. They further admitted they and/or their partners used drop guns (planted "evidence") to frame unarmed victims the police shot down. Some or many of those same cases have been exposed by the internal affairs of police departments.

reply to post by CaptainObvious



I know the history of genetics and have known for quite sometime. I stated it was not accepted by many courts even in 2001. It is now but was not then.

The human genome project was not completed until approximately 1999. They needed that completed for the legal community to accept DNA testing as evidence in courtrooms.

The guidelines for accepting any testing from anyone are extremely tight. They were tightened because inept or disreputable people were giving false DNA testimony, which was not peer reviewed by supervisors or anyone else. In other words, innocent people went to jail because of false DNA testimony. Now court cases are rapidly arising when one test is proved to be false, and many were done by the same disreputable individual.

reply to post by IvanZana


Ivan.. let me ask you something.... your photos show very minimal if any plane parts. I have shown you several pictures with plane debris. I could actually post more, but I feel it will be waste of my time. What I want you to do is look at this picture below. Tell me if it looks similar to the ones you posted.




Looks pretty similar to Shanksville? No not exactly... but similar.

This in fact is a plane crash. United Airlines Flight 585. It was a boeing 737, and impacted at a much lesser speed than flight 93.

Can you please point out the plane parts?

Here is some information in regards to flight 585:

"The aircraft was turning from its 45° intercept to the extended runway centerline, and the first officer called "we're at 1,000 feet."

Dozens of witnesses in the community directly under the extended centerline watched as the airplane levelled off momentarily on the runway heading, 3.5 miles from the threshold. Then, it rolled to the right, pitched down until reaching a nearly vertical attitude, and compacted itself into a 39-foot wide, 15-foot deep crater in an area known as Widefield Park. All onboard were killed.

The first officer said, "Oh, God," - the altitude decreased rapidly; the indicated airspeed increased to over 200 knots; and the normal acceleration increased to over 4g."

Source: AirDisaster.Com

"There was no damage to structures on the ground. Trees adjacent to the impact crater were damaged by flying debris and soot, and nearby patches of grass north and northeast of the crater were scorched. The size of the impact crater measured approximately 39 feet by 24 feet and was about 15 feet deep.

Source: NTSB


There are other flights that have crashed with minimal debris:

Northwest Airlines Flight 710 (Lockheed Electra): high speed crash into farm field, plane and passengers reduced to small parts scattered or buried, few remains found. Only seven of the plane's 63 victims were identified.

The plane and its final explosion blew out a smoldering crater 50 ft. wide and 25 ft. deep. Civil Aeronautics Board crash specialists found empty, neatly laced shoes, a stray airmail letter, a bloodstained blouse, a prayer book lying open at the Litany of the Saints ("Lord have mercy on us...").

Source: "Why This Failure..." Time Magazine, March 28, 1960

There is a crater--it appears to be quite deep...perhaps 35 feet deep. There is thick smoke. I can barely make out the twisted wreckage of a large aircraft. The plane appears to have slammed itself nose first into the ground. I don't see how anyone could possibly have survived this kind of impact. As I look around in the snow I see slivers of silver/green metal, spilled fuel, and debris. I see no bodies...only indistinguishable remnants of human remains. Here is the largest identifiable piece of humanity: a part of a backbone that is still connected to a kidney. These people...these poor people. What must have happened? How long must they have known their inescapable fate? The wing and engine we first found must have been 3 or 4 miles away. I've never seen anything like this before...

...For days the Graves and Registration Troops continued to sift through the 4 or 5 acres of the wreckage, often mistaking pieces of pink airplane insulation for frozen pieces of human flesh. The smell of charred bodies, once frozen--then thawed--remains with me today. I came home from the crash site that first night and threw away my clothes. We reported the story to ABC, CBS, NBC, Canada and Mexico. A Two-inch communication cable was laid by Bell Telephone all the way from Cannelton to the crash site. Ultimately 8 or 9 coffins were provided to hold the recovered human remains of the 63 passengers and 6 crew members. All were buried in Greenwood Cemetery, but, in truth, only 2 of them actually held any contents at all. The other 6 were empty--symbolic gestures of grief.

www.perrycountyindiana.org...

It struck a field at 618 MPH. Mud, dirt, grass, shrubs and mottled snow were tossed 250 ft into the air. The debris fell back around a muddy crater forty feet wide. From this gaping wound in the earth poured smouldering smoke. There were pieces of wreckage around the perfectly formed rim. Some other metal fragments were hurled fifteen hundred feet away. But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely.

In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines flight 710 - and the 33 men, 21 woman and 8 children and 1 infant aboard.

www.amazon.com...

I do have other photographs of planes that crashed in the ground... if your interested.
The following is recovered remains of an RAF Canberra bomber, which crashed at a steep angle into a farm field at about 450-500 knots in 1952.

"Such was the complete destruction of the aircraft that it made the job of the Accidents Investigation Branch a difficult one and all the wreckage recovered was taken back to Samlesbury and laid out in a Hanger for detailed inspection."

web.ukonline.co.uk...

reply to post by CaptainObvious


Yes, you did. You did it by citing the FBI, as if it were a validly proved conclusion, which it was not. There is nothing to prove it was valid. The FBI knows better than to start throwing evidence in together,without properly identifying and keeping each piece of evidence separate from any other. That is not what the photo shows. It shows worthless contaminated scrap metal from something or other and nothing more.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


You mean the same Bil Crowley, who will say anything the Bush administration tells him to say if he wants to keep his job and benefits? That Bill Crowley?

reply to post by CaptainObvious


You mean the same Bil Crowley, who will say anything the Bush administration tells him to say if he wants to keep his job and benefits? That Bill Crowley?

I think the 2 kids here that think that a Boeing Crashed in shanksville are not only ignorant, misinformed and also think the fake plane crash (exercise) drill in shanksville was real.


Youve been duped. Welcome to the truth ladies and gentlemen.





[edit on 6-1-2008 by IvanZana]

The Shanksville crater site was fake airplane crash site used in the 911 terror drills on 9.11.

In my travels i have seen much.
Flight 93 reminds me of Mock Plane Crash exercises which occure anually in most cities but every 3 years or so they do it large scale, sometimes thehospitals and civilians including local authorities dont even know its an exercise.
Thats the best way to analize procedures in real time is by making it as real as possible. The simulations come complete with fuselage, fire, smoke, blood, screaming and dead people, as real as possible.
Here is some links to these common fake air crash exercises.
Sometimes these exercises are even a suprise to the city to test their natural response.
ardmoreite.com...
www.leadercall.com...
www.cbc.ca...


I have seen them with my own eyes.

Hahah how naive of you to buy the simulation.

You played exactly into their hands. like a puppy.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by OrionStars


Orion...here is some more information you may like to read about those who worked on the identification of those on Flight 93:


Paul Sledzik, Curator Armed Forces Institute of Pathology National Museum of Health and Medicine
Leader of flight 93 Disaster Mortuary (Team DMORT)

Sledzik and Barbian, physical anthropologists on staff of the NMHM/AFIP, oversee a collection of human medical and pathological specimens. They provide forensic anthropology consultation to several local and federal agencies and teach an annual AFIP course in forensic anthropology.

"The methods of interpreting the biological aspects of the human skeleton are similar, whether you are looking at a Civil War soldier or a recent disaster victim," said Barbian.

"The museum is proud to support this work as a service to the nation," said Dr. Adrianne Noe, museum director. "Yet it is no surprise that we should be able to do so. Our efforts are an excellent example of public service, combining support for families with our unique experiences and expertise at this critical time."

nmhm.washingtondc.museum...

Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, Chief Scientific Advisor to Somerset County Coroner's office in the flight 93 investigation; Director, Applied Forensic Sciences Department, Mercyhurst College, 501 E. 38th St. Erie, PA 16546

DNA comparison is just one of several techniques to be used by members of the federal Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team, which is charged with recovering and identifying the remains of Flight 93's passengers, crew members and hijackers. All 44 people who were on board died in the crash.

Teams include forensic pathologists, anthropologists, dentists, fingerprint analysts, radiologists, X-ray technicians and others with scientific skills that can be used to identify remains. Members are private citizens who have offered their skills and who are activated and paid by the federal government to assist local coroners or medical examiners when disasters occur, said Paul Sledzik, who headed the team in Stonycreek.

A forensic anthropologist, Sledzik is a world-renowned curator at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology's National Museum of Health and Medicine in Washington, D.C.

A specialist in identifying skeletal remains, Sledzik, 40, has worked as an expert in numerous murder cases. He has helped to identify bodies of soldiers killed during the Persian Gulf War as well as passengers who died in the USAir Flight 427 crash.

www.post-gazette.com...

bp2.blogger.com...[/ats]

Originally posted by IvanZana
FUnny. All this jibber jabber does not change the fact that no plane crashed in Shanksville on Septmber 11.

Remember, no plane crashed in Shanksville.

Wow. I am totally convinced now more than ever that NO Boeing Crashed in Shanksville, on Spetmeber 11th,2001.

Originally posted by IvanZana

This picture is avoided and undebunkable.

There is no proof of a boeing 757 crashing.

The shoot down theory is proven disinformation started by the people who brought you " Missile on the WTC " Pentagon Hologram ", WTC holograms, not controlled demo, NUKES,... etc.

These people actually start the silly theories so they can easily debunk them later looking 1/2 intelligent, but thats another thread.

As you can see no fuel, no fire, no parts, NO Boeing 757 at Shanksville on 9/11

Mabey they are looking for cruise missile parts?

???

THE SCREAMING THING

At the horseshoe-shaped Indian Lake, about a mile east of the official crash site, several eyewitnesses recalled hearing “a screaming thing” that “screeched” as it passed over the golf course and lakeside community immediately before a huge explosion shook the ground.

Chris Smith, the groundskeeper at the golf course, said something with a “very loud screeching sound” passed over in the immediate vicinity of the golf course before he heard a huge explosion.

Cruise missile video. Look like a small white plane.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by IvanZana

Get off the crack kid. You have proven yourself to be borderline retarded.lol

I see a pretty red banner coming soon under your name.

Originally posted by IvanZana I see plenty of plane parts.
FLIGHT 585 that CaptinObvius says there were no plane parts visible.

[ats]

Um thats not the flight 585. Now you are lying. That photograph is actually of the 1994 crash of USAir flight 427.

You realize all the name calling and posting the same thing over and over is just helping you show your true colors.

dbl post.


[edit on 6-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by CaptainObvious


You cited what the FBI stated and then used those photographs. You did not have to use words to say it. The implications of what you intended to mean were that blatant.

reply to post by OrionStars



Back it up with some sources my friend. You are the one saying hersay means nothing. Practice what you preach.

reply to post by OrionStars

You mean the same Bil Crowley, who will say anything the Bush administration tells him to say if he wants to keep his job and benefits? That Bill Crowley?

The "No one will speak up because they're afraid to lose their job and denefits" argument. That argument doesn't work in the real world, only in conspiracy land.

FAA employee James P. Hopkins blew the whistle and not only is he alive, he still has his job.

Link

Double post





[edit on 6-1-2008 by Boone 870]

reply to post by IvanZana


Stop posting lies Ivan. You have the wrong crash my friend.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
reply to post by IvanZana

 

Ivan.. let me ask you something.... your photos show very minimal if any plane parts. I have shown you several pictures with plane debris. I could actually post more, but I feel it will be waste of my time. What I want you to do is look at this picture below. Tell me if it looks similar to the ones you posted.

Looks pretty similar to Shanksville? No not exactly... but similar.

This in fact is a plane crash. United Airlines Flight 585.

Get off the crack kid. You have proven yourself to be borderline retarded.lol

I see plenty of plane parts.
FLIGHT 585 that CaptinObvius says there were no plane parts visible.


Your no longer welcome to troll and abuse this thread.

Thank you.