FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

Originally posted by IvanZana

A local veteran who flew combat helicopters in the Vietnam War told AFP that the high-pitched screeching sound was indicative of a missile.

He recognized the two vertical fins on the rear of the plane. “Nobody was interested in what we saw,” he said. “They didn’t even ask us.”


So you see, you have Vietnam Vet who said "the high-pitched screeching sound was indicative of a missile.

Two vertical fins? Where on it? Unless he means the little ones on the bottom of the F-16, which from the ground would be hard to distinguish, that sounds more like a A-10 or maybe an F-15. Maybe the F/A-18 as well.

Fuel fires did not drop the twin towers. Quantum mechanics involving the second law of thermodymics proves that never happened. Neither did any alleged planes bassed on both classical physics and quantum mechanics.

www.crystalinks.com...

www.britannica.com...

"The first instance of an absolute in nature that impressed Planck deeply, even as a Gymnasium student, was the law of the conservation of energy, the first law of thermodynamics. Later, during his university years, he became equally convinced that the entropy law, the second law of thermodynamics, was also an absolute law of nature. The second law became the subject of his doctoral dissertation at Munich, and it lay at the core of the researches that led him to discover the quantum of action, now known as Planck's constant h, in 1900."

reply to post by apex


I doubt it would have been an F/A-18 since the Airforce doesn't use them. I did see a Tomcat come up the valley on 9/11, but there was a carrier within range at that point. (F-14 also has twin tail and long-range wepaons)

I recomend that little time be spent on trying to determine small and almost impossible proofs such as plane type. What is evident that it was no Boeing 757, Flight 93 that the eyewitnesses describedreply to post by jackinthebox

Originally posted by jackinthebox
The scorching of the trees seems more consistent with the detonation of ordinance as is the brief light-colored smoke plume that was photographed.

Exactly.
Now for those who want to argue that a bomb or missile would not have the accuracy to lock on and hit a ground taget such as a pre exsisting coalmine strip minning scar.


And here is the cruise missile that could be mistaken for a "small white jet" "screaming like a missile"

Notice the explosion matches eye witness reports and the decription of a missile and or bomb cannot be denied.

Coincidently, part of the terror drill of 9.11 were to intercept 'foriegn' cruise missiles such as this.

[edit on 2-1-2008 by IvanZana]


[edit on 2-1-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
I doubt it would have been an F/A-18 since the Airforce doesn't use them. I did see a Tomcat come up the valley on 9/11, but there was a carrier within range at that point. (F-14 also has twin tail and long-range wepaons)

Good point. But with this scale of operation, the Navy could be 'in on it' as well. The F/A 18 started as a multirole though, while the F-14 was more an interceptor (at least at first).

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by MikeVet

 

You should worry about your own warnings. Go back in the thread where the evidence was already posted.

Ok, so I took your advice and reread the thread.

The only evidence is that there's a scrap yard in the area. You NO proof, NONE, ZIP, DIDDLY SQUAT, that metal was buried. I think the mods should hand down a warning.

And, it wouldn't make sense. The business of a scrapyard is to store steel, etc... and then sell them when prices are high. What would be the purpose of burying it?

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

In open rural areas, even light pieces of metal get blown across the fields and open areas by the wind. There was a building on the photographed and videotaped site. It may have been an equipment building belonging to the mining company. They would have all types of metal lying around doing repairs on equipment etc.

This is true.

It's a little known fact that when you drive aroound in rural areas, metal peices can be seen strewn all over the place.

In fact, this is the real reason for the price of beef increasing. In our ever modernizing society, more and more of these light pieces of metal are being blown around, and in times of high winds, many head of cattle are being sliced to ribbons.

reply to post by DrZERO


Somehow, I have the impression that you will never do an honest "analysis" of the USGS map cuz this will force you to retreat from your position of "I don't know for sure what it is, but I know for a fact a missle hit there".

Whatever.

reply to post by IvanZana


Something I noticed on impact in at least one video. The metal was lying not all that far from the impact site on the side I could see. Which leads to these questions.

How far is it possible any metal debri could fly on impact and explosion? Anywhere from 1-8 miles? Or far less?

Was the missle impacting at a higher velocity speed than a Boeing 757 will do, depending on the Boeing's final velocity at impact?

While weight and mass, plus, velocity all contribute to impact velocity force potential, each on their own, partially or fully combined is not the end all, in determining probable initial velocity impact force, and what happens thereafter. All factors, concerning two objects impacting, have to be known and fully considered, in order to have any accuracy in calculation. Otherwise, it is only guesswork based on any assumed unknown variables combined with any known variables.

reply to post by MikeVet


Obviously you have never been to a scrapyard. The metal was not intentionally buried necessarily in that case.

On the other hand, someone posted something along the lines of scrap metal being used as fill.

I think the mods should hand down a warning.

Nyaaaaahh Looks like someone got one already

Whatever. Don't be a hater.

Show me proof that any of the metal there was not there before 9/11/01. Show me proof that any of the metal recovered was part of an airplane. Show me proof that any metal recovered was a part of a jet airliner...etc, etc. Show me proof that any of the metal recovered was a part of United Flight 93.


[edit on 1/2/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by MikeVet


What benefit did your snide retort contribute to this discussion?

I happen to live rural, and we get other people's garbage, including light weight metal strips and cut waste (galvanized for HVAC and beer cans among other metal), ending up on my land. Aluminum foil from a distance can sure be a fooler, when it comes to determining what type of metal waste in lying on my land.

Hey mike i dont know where you've been but I think its been settled already that no plane crashed in shankville.

Mabey start a thread to try to prove the crazy conspiracy that a plane crashed in that missile crater in Shanksville.

Have you heard all the eyewitness testimony and youtube videos that all describe NOT seeing a boeing 757 crash?

Are you trying to deny the accounts from army vets who even described it as "screaming" like a missile would sound because being a vet he has heard his fair share of projectiles and ordinances.

The pictures proved it beyond a doubt that no boeing 757 crashed in shankville. Remember? no fuel , no fire, no seats, no wheels, no wings, no nothing?

I understand that you are hard pressed to come to this thread inparticular and try to debunk what cant be dubunked by implying your own authority and expertise but fail to provide credentials, and you also fail to address issues and cite sources. You simply cite 'Jane's-like' information to make us think you know what you are talking about. Why do you refuse to address the issues?

Why do you come to this thread?

reply to post by MikeVet


Until scrapyards move that metal, it just sits there scattered around and gets buried by other heavy metal scrap dumped on top of it.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by MikeVet

 

Obviously you have never been to a scrapyard. The metal was not intentionally buried necessarily in that case.

On the other hand, someone posted something along the lines of scrap metal being used as fill.

Show me proof that any of the metal there was not there before 9/11/01. Show me proof that any of the metal recovered was part of an airplane. Show me proof that any metal recovered was a part of a jet airliner...etc, etc. Show me proof that any of the metal recovered was a part of United Flight 93.

1- wrong, I've sold scrapped aluminum stairways, steel, junk farm equipment to scrapyards. Their job is to take in material, pay for it, and then sell it for more than they paid. It's called running a business.

2- yes Orionstars posted that. He also posted that it could be a site for legally burning tires, a nuclear waste disposal site, a medical waste disposal site, and a disposal site for foundry slag. These are just some of his highlights. Do you want to base your beliefs on this guys wild statements, statements that have no basis in fact and are TOTALLY unsupported?

3- I need to prove a negative? We'll just ignore that one, shall we?

4- We've seen the remains of jet engines, fuselage with window holes, etc. I'd say that's proof of both an airplane and a jet airplane. So we covered 2 Q's there, great.

5- The FDR's were proven to have the serial number matching 93. And they're made of metal.

There, I've answered your Q's. Somehow, I doubt that'll be enough.

Now, to prove your point, you must provide evidence that THAT particular area, after being reclaimed from being a strip mine, was allowed by whatever governing agency to start a scrapyard above it. You won't, cuz as John can explain to you, soil erosion and ground instability will be a huge concern, and won't be allowed until a measure of soil stability has been proven to have been reached.

Will you answer my questions now?

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by MikeVet

 

What benefit did your snide retort contribute to this discussion?

I happen to live rural, and we get other people's garbage, including light weight metal strips and cut waste (galvanized for HVAC and beer cans among other metal), ending up on my land. Aluminum foil from a distance can sure be a fooler, when it comes to determining what type of metal waste in lying on my land.

So have I. As I posted earlier, I grew up on a farm and what you're describing is bs unless you live directly downwind of a landfill. That's what the benefit was - to point out that your assertion of metal blowing around is bs.

Take a photo and post it.

reply to post by IvanZana


IvanZana, speaking only from the viewpoint of a potential juror in any court case, with expert testimony coupled with what you have presented, I personally believe you have a very strong circumstantial case, which could very probably be won.

Provided you have a jury willing to be informed in subjects, on which, they have not be previously informed or took the initiative to inform themselves. Provided the judge remains objective in accepting the jury's decision.

reply to post by MikeVet

1- wrong, I've sold scrapped aluminum stairways, steel, junk farm equipment to scrapyards. Their job is to take in material, pay for it, and then sell it for more than they paid. It's called running a business.

Okay, if you say so, then you should know better.

As for everything else, I'm looking for proof, not planted evidence.

What are your questions?


[edit on 1/2/0808 by jackinthebox]

Dble post.

[edit on 2-1-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by IvanZana
Hey mike i dont know where you've been but I think its been settled already that no plane crashed in shankville.

Have you heard all the eyewitness testimony and youtube videos that all describe NOT seeing a boeing 757 crash?

The pictures proved it beyond a doubt that no boeing 757 crashed in shankville. Remember? no fuel , no fire, no seats, no wheels, no wings, no nothing?

I understand that you are hard pressed to come to this thread inparticular and try to debunk what cant be dubunked by implying your own authority and expertise but fail to provide credentials, and you also fail to address issues and cite sources. You simply cite 'Jane's-like' information to make us think you know what you are talking about. Why do you refuse to address the issues?

Why do you come to this thread?

1- So why are you afraid of my debunking efforts?

2-Have YOU heard all the eyewitness testimony and youtube video saying there was a plane that crashed there?

3-forgotten again that 95% of the plane was recovered again? Forget about the tree fires again? Forget about the human remains again?

4-Why don't YOU address the issues first with some refutation of facts, rather than posting the same photos over and over and saying, "yep, no plane crashed here. It a proven fact."

5- I come here to get a good laugh at your expense

reply to post by MikeVet


Please, no one has to live near any landfill or scrapyard to get all types of metal scraps in their urban or suburban yards or on their land.

In rural areas, we often get an overabundance of it, depending on who is putting in what housing development and taking our rural land away. Galvanized for HVAC ductwork ends up on our land all the time. It's is wide open, and winds quite often winds have high velocity quite capable of taking light metal scrap and moving it far and away to our land.