Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

Just to toss a little more fuel on the fire...

What about that one crook's kid?

He's now going to grow up knowing that his dad was gunned down in the street like a dog by a white man who could afford a rather nice house, and the law never did anything about it.

Would that kid be justified in harboring harsh feelings towards both the system and white people in general for the rest of his life? Would it be acceptable for him to avenge his father?

If you believe that justice can be dispensed from a smoking barrel, where does it stop?

well, if anyone has been following my posts, you know i'm against gun ownership. I been saying it for years now that you don't need guns to solve problems. it's an uncivilized weapon used by inferior intelligence. If only there was a ban on guns and killing weapons we wouldn't be having this problem. In order to advance and move on mentally we need to eliminate Weapons, guns, armies, etc.

This old killer felt important with his rifle by his side. His voice was that of a crazy insane human rights opponent and he seemed to be either drunk or on drugs. We should search his home and examine this guy. it's probably not the first time he has killed someone.

reply to post by BitRaiser


That entire last post was laughable. It is noboby's fault but his own, concerning where he ended up in life. If his child can't see his dad's wrong doing, than he'll probably end up in the same shoes. Quite displacing the blame.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


You don't have a whole lot of empathy, do you?

I was attempting to bring another aspect of this event to the table. One that will otherwise be ignored.

Right or wrong, if someone killed my Dad, I would hate them. IF the law did nothing to his killer, I would hate that too. If the killer was celebrate by a group of well to do fat assholes, I'd hate the lot of 'em.

Can you not understand how this situation has perty much ensured that a new criminal will grow up to fill his father's shoes?

Do you lack the basic humanity to be able to understand that this is not a good thing? Nothing good happened here.

The man would have been more of a hero if he kept his ignorant ass indoors and allowed the police to do their job. I know you're all dead set against waiting for the cops, but did you notice in the recording, they showed up almost immediately after the shooting? They would have arrived in time to ferret this guys out.

Now don't get me wrong, as mentioned several times in my posts, I do not in any way condone the actions of the criminals. They deserved to go to jail, maybe get roughed up a bit, they did not deserve to die.

Originally posted by BitRaiser


Now don't get me wrong, as mentioned several times in my posts, I do not in any way condone the actions of the criminals. They deserved to go to jail, maybe get roughed up a bit, they did not deserve to die.

I agree with everything you say, I cant believe some of the comments here. They think this mans actions is something that needs to be done for a change, well in reality, THIS man is one of the MANY problems we have in the world, he is part of the problem, not the solution.





[edit on 2-12-2007 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by BitRaiser

You don't have a whole lot of empathy, do you?

Only for the innocent.

I was attempting to bring another aspect of this event to the table. One that will otherwise be ignored.

Okay, and I understand that, but your intentions are to sway those of us who aren't biting your sympthetic view point.

Right or wrong, if someone killed my Dad, I would hate them. IF the law did nothing to his killer, I would hate that too. If the killer was celebrate by a group of well to do fat #, I'd hate the lot of 'em.

That's due to your own ignorance, not anybody you'd classify hating. It wouldn't be anyones fault but your fathers. The reason he died was because of two men using poor judgement. That being your pathetic father and his gung ho murderer.

Can you not understand how this situation has perty much ensured that a new criminal will grow up to fill his father's shoes?

Yes, I undersatnd completely. Though, that is his decision to make. Like myself, I've become the antithesis of my father and do quite well. I never failed anyone I loved. People can change their destiny, it's not that uncommon.

Do you lack the basic humanity to be able to understand that this is not a good thing? Nothing good happened here.

I never said it was a good thing. Infact, this is a bad move on all parties invovled, as I've stated before.

The man would have been more of a hero if he kept his ignorant ass indoors and allowed the police to do their job. I know you're all dead set against waiting for the cops, but did you notice in the recording, they showed up almost immediately after the shooting? They would have arrived in time to ferret this guys out.

Yes, but how does one know that? How does one know when the cops that should have been there in under 3 minutes will show up around 9 minutes? If the police would have showed up even a minute earlier, things would be different. We can "what if" all day, but it still stands that it was not only the wrong decision made by the man with the gun, but also the 3 idiots who decided to go break into another person's home and rob them for everything they had. There's no one sided way of looking at the situation, Bitraiser, and I think you're having difficulty understanding that.

Now don't get me wrong, as mentioned several times in my posts, I do not in any way condone the actions of the criminals. They deserved to go to jail, maybe get roughed up a bit, they did not deserve to die.

I agree. A lot of us here don't believe they deserved to die either, but it is what it is, and those consequences are very relative to the actions. Simple as that.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

Originally posted by jedimiller
well, if anyone has been following my posts, you know i'm against gun ownership. I been saying it for years now that you don't need guns to solve problems. it's an uncivilized weapon used by inferior intelligence. If only there was a ban on guns and killing weapons we wouldn't be having this problem. In order to advance and move on mentally we need to eliminate Weapons, guns, armies, etc.

People have been killing one another long before the advent of guns. Even during the caveman days when sticks and rocks were used as weapons.

In countries where gun ownership is banned there are still guns around, it's just that they are monopolized by the police and military. I find it funny that you would call guns uncivilized. What I think is uncivilized is a disarmed citizenry vulnerable to abuse and oppression by an armed government.

[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
---James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Guns will never be banned in America, at least not without a fight.

This old killer felt important with his rifle by his side. His voice was that of a crazy insane human rights opponent and he seemed to be either drunk or on drugs. We should search his home and examine this guy. it's probably not the first time he has killed someone.

Careful there. The man that you would call a crazy old killer, I call a true patriot. Search his home and examine him? You sound like you want to live in a police state.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by Rahul Buttar]

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
I agree. A lot of us here don't believe they deserved to die either, but it is what it is, and those consequences are very relative to the actions. Simple as that.

I'm glad we've found some common ground.

I would go further and say that the shooter's bone headed actions should also meet with consequence.

He made the decision to get involved and caused the deaths of two men who, as you have agreed, did not deserve to die.

That's my whole point in a nutshell.

He is not a hero.
He did nothing noble.
He acted stupidly.
He should face consequences for his stupidity.

I support the course of action taken.

I tend to think of it this way....

If the "hero" gets away clean with no legal recourse, what are the odds that he'll shoot someone else again? 1-in-1000000000 ? Impossible to calculate but pretty darned high, don't you agree?


Conversely -

If the criminals in this case didn't get shot and got away clean with no legal recourse, what are the odds that they'd do it again? Alot lower than the shooter, don't ya think?

Call me old-fashioned but I can think of no society on this planet where theft by 1 human being from another is legal. To break that law is, in essence, a crime against humanity, is it not?

I remember a few times long time ago, I didnt have a key, and had to climb though my window to get in. Id hate for this guy to see me do that lol!

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Just to toss a little more fuel on the fire...

(1) What about that one crook's kid?

(2) He's now going to grow up knowing that his dad was gunned down in the street like a dog by a white man who could afford a rather nice house, and the law never did anything about it.

(3) Would that kid be justified in harboring harsh feelings towards both the system and white people in general for the rest of his life? Would it be acceptable for him to avenge his father?

(4) If you believe that justice can be dispensed from a smoking barrel, where does it stop?

I'll bite.

1. The crook should of thought of his kids before he went out robbing houses.

2. The law worked perfectly here. The man didn't break the law and he's not going to prison - all is well. The type of house the man lives in has little to do with the situation. You can get shot just as fast in the poor part of town.

3. Hopefully the kid later realizes his dad was responsible for his actions - he did a dumb thing and paid the ultimate price. The dumb thing/ultimate price bit plays out daily. How I do wish people would stop doing dumb things. I take extra care not to do dumb things so I don't end up dead.

If the kid kills the man for shooting his dad he is obviously committing murder.

4. It stops when the person in question stops doing things that can lead to them getting shot (within the bounds of the law). Would be criminals should take do a quick review of their local governments laws to discover what their outcome may be. Or they could just not commit the crimes - either one will work.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by discomfit]

[edit on 2-12-2007 by discomfit]

[edit on 2-12-2007 by discomfit]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

And where did I mention Africa?

You didn't. I am going mad. Sorry.

Parts of it are 3rd world though

[edit on 2/12/2007 by skibtz]

Originally posted by Rahul Buttar

People have been killing one another long before the advent of guns. Even during the caveman days when sticks and rocks were used as weapons.

Oh? how do you know that? did you live in the caveman days? maybe you are a time traveler. let's get real Rahul, this old folk wouldn't be able to kill these guys with sticks or rocks. Weapons such as guns give people powers they don't deserve. I have never used a gun in my life. I will never own one. And I have no need for one. Why does the US, china, Iran and other countries need nuclear bombs? your argument is weak. it's easier for a 10 year old child to kill someone with a handgun, than if he picked up a stone. The problem lies with racists who feel they hate others and start shooting Alamo style.

I suppose we just need to sit tight now, wait for the legal system to clear this man and send him home. And then when a friend, relative or cohort of one of the vitims drops by his house and shoots him we'll be having a new thread.

And then shortly after that we will have another new thread where the god-fearing folk of Texas have taken it upon themselves to cleanse their land of drug-addled criminals.

And on and on...

Finally, just a quickie for those of you bearing arms, if the law changed in your country and the possession of firearms was made illegal, would you disarm?

reply to post by BitRaiser


I'll bet that kid never breaks into anyone's home. That is what this is about.

Originally posted by Anubis Kanubis
reply to post by BitRaiser

 

I'll bet that kid never breaks into anyone's home. That is what this is about.

He may or may not break in to anyones home later but he will probably take it upon himself to avenge his father's unlawful murder.

Originally posted by skibtz

Finally, just a quickie for those of you bearing arms, if the law changed in your country and the possession of firearms was made illegal, would you disarm?

If I had a weapon, handgun or any other killing machine. I would turn it in. I don't own guns. Never have. So if that was to happen, it would end crime and help people build compasion for other human beings.


If I was to be in this situation. I would call the police, and wait in my home. I have taken numerous tai chi, karate courses and it can only be used in self defense, not for attack. So I wouldn't be the attacker.

Originally posted by jedimiller


If I had a weapon, handgun or any other killing machine. I would turn it in. I don't own guns. Never have. So if that was to happen, it would end crime and help people build compasion for other human beings.


If I was to be in this situation. I would call the police, and wait in my home. I have taken numerous tai chi, karate courses and it can only be used in self defense, not for attack. So I wouldn't be the attacker.

I understand what your saying, and agree on a few things, but it wouldnt END crime.

Here in London guns are illegal, guess what, knife crime is VERY high, quite a few of my friends have been robbed by thugs with knifes for their phones, its quite normal around here, and I always used to hear about people getting stabbed all the time, theres always gangs beating up a kid for no reason at all, this happens every day, some beat people to death, no weapons involved.

I guess we need to change the culture somehow, change the education, and educate parents too, lot of crappy parents come with crappy kids, this might help lower crime.


[edit on 2-12-2007 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by jedimiller
Oh? how do you know that? did you live in the caveman days? maybe you are a time traveler.

Please.

Your trying to tell me that people didn't kill one another before weapons were invented? That has to be one of the most naive statements I've ever heard.

let's get real Rahul, this old folk wouldn't be able to kill these guys with sticks or rocks.

You're right, he probably would not have had the physical strength to take on two young men with a blunt weapon. But the two could have easily beat him to death had they been weilding baseball bats.

The gun in this instance is an equalizer which allows a physically weak person to defend himself against a person (or group of people) who are healthy and strong.

Weapons such as guns give people powers they don't deserve.

The ability to defend yourself is something you don't deserve?

Why does the US, china, Iran and other countries need nuclear bombs?

Because if they didn't they would be vulnerable to getting nuked.

The problem lies with racists who feel they hate others and start shooting Alamo style.

Playing the race card to defend a criminal only serves to degrade law abiding citizens of the same race.

If I was to be in this situation. I would call the police, and wait in my home. I have taken numerous tai chi, karate courses and it can only be used in self defense, not for attack. So I wouldn't be the attacker.

What good would Karate and Tai Chi training do if someone pulled a gun on you? Probably jack # if you were more than ten feet away. I'm sorry but in a life or death situation you are not going to be able to just "use the force" Luke.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by Rahul Buttar]

Originally posted by skibtz
He may or may not break in to anyones home later but he will probably take it upon himself to avenge his father's unlawful murder.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. It has been established that the man doing the shooting was withing the constraints of the law.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by discomfit]