Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo

Originally posted by Bluess
The result... almost noone gets killed by guns... most "money needing criminals" doesnt even use guns.

What do they use instead? Knives, clubs, bats, fists, brass knuckles, teeth, claws, and the like.

Quite so. Denmarks murder rate is similar to the U.S. despite not having guns. How do they manage that?

Murder rate (per 100,000 people):

United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
Germany 4.20
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Finland 0.70

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Everyone in the USA has the opportunity to make it?

How many black presidents have you had?

How many female presidents have you had?

Extreme examples but the fact remains. Discrimination and corruption exist in our societies.

Never believe we are all equal. It is a fallacy.

All equal, except some more so than others eh?

Hmmm. Heard that before somewhere!

You also think that herion addicts choose to be addicted to the drug? Or maybe you thik they are stupid for trying the drug in the first place?

Did it ever occur to you that these victims may well have been hard working, honest and caring people at one point in their life. A point turned on its head by the loss of a loved one or other tragic event?

No. I didn't think so because if it had you wouldn't be calling for the cold blood of criminals. And for the love of god please stop referencing Africa. We are talking about what happened in Texas this week.

A higher proportion of crime is the sympton of the drug problem in my opinion.

As far as poverty goes, it exists everywhere in the world in every country just about. More than 20% of the UK live under the poverty line. It doesnt matter if they are on the streets of London or the on a plain in Africa. They will die because they can't afford to eat.

[edit on 1/12/2007 by skibtz]

reply to post by makeitso


can i get a source on that?

cause i have a report here saying otherwise:

static.scribd.com...

just scroll down 3 pages or read down to it

[edit on 1-12-2007 by Bluess]

Watch crime rate reduce in that area..Way to go!

Originally posted by makeitso
I take it you haven't listened to the audio of the 911 call,
because he did not say, "I'm gonna kill them". Thats an embellishment of what he did say, and taken out of context to boot. Also, he did say I'm going to stop them.

If that's true (and no I didn't catch the 911 call... this thread is a little sprawling, so forgive me for missing it), then it largely invalidates my comments.

It does show an excellent example of responsibility of the press being important. That "embellishment" is harmful disinformation.

So your saying that if the criminals had stopped and laid down on the ground he would have shot them while they lay there?

Who's to say? I know for certain that there are people out there who would consider it a dream come true to blow away a couple criminals given half a chance. I think there are many examples of this attitude being clearly demonstrated in this very thread.

I'll even go so far as to admit that there is a dark part of me that would want to take that action. However, I acknowledge that part as being "wrong" and something to be resisted, not indulged.

I do not have enough faith in humanity to extend my own feelings of restraint to other people. It's easy for me to believe that he might have gleefully blown these guys away even if they were empty handed, on the ground, and crying for their mothers. BUT... it may also not be the case. That's for a judge to determine.

Regardless of how I or anyone else feels about killing someone it boils down to this.

You must face the reaction to your own actions no matter what they may be.

The plain and simple truth is if these people had not chose to do something they know to be wrong they would not be dead at this moment. It is their fault for being stupid and robbing someone. Don’t give me this stuff about how it might have been the only way to feed their family either. With the number of places out there offering help to those who need it there is no reason for people to do such things.

Flat out you don’t want to get killed or what ever else might come along for stealing then don’t steal. I’m not saying I condone the actions of anyone in the story but let’s face it if the two had not broke into the house to start with they would still be living or at least this guy would not have killed them.

Lesson to be learned here is not to do things that are wrong even most preschool children know that stealing is wrong.

Raist

I totally agree with shooting gang banging criminal scum who break into homes, ruin peoples safety and property and then laugh about it because nothing will be done. 21 states have castle laws now, and all 50 need it. DO NOT STEAL from people's homes or mug people, or you could and should be shot in the act by someone defending the safety of there family, period. I am a democrat by the way not a "right wing nut job" as has been said in the thread. This country is getting so soft that people are stepping all over everyone and it needs to stop. I lived in Galveston TX, and if someone was stealing from a house, you will be shot, just like you should anywhere else. It's the laws fault for making the act of defense criminal, because shooting someones leg out is more sensible then killing them, but then they can sue you even though there criminal trash, and it's gone to far, so killing them is actually easier and considered better for everyone. Reverse those laws so that there is proper action and no lawsuits against the person stopping the crime, and the killing would stop.

reply to post by Bluess


What you have posted is murder rates with guns. That's not what the other posted had stated. He quoted murder rates regardless of weapon (or even no weapon).

reply to post by migliavacca


yeah... ill still need a souce for the tabel he provided

Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by greeneyedleo



What?

So, if you dont become President, you havent made it? Your kidding me right? I see people all around me who were brought up in "American Poverty" and they are way more well off then me. And many of these people got a free education too w/ all those scholorships out there that I dont qualify for

And where did I mention Africa? I have never been to Africa. Thanks though.

As far as drugs go. Sure, just dont do them. I manged to NEVER do drugs. It was very easy not too....even while people around me were doing everything under the sun. I just made a choice not too.

As far as addicts go. My heart goes out to them and I believe they need help. But I refuse to give them a free ride when they commit a crime as a result of their drug use.

As far as hard working good people falling on hard times. Did it ever occur to you that many hard working good people fall on hard times and manage to NEVER break a law and commit a crime AGAINST others?

There is NO excuse for people committing crimes against other people. And I have no tolerance for it.

As far as poverty goes. In America there is NO REASON to ever go w/out food. I have volunteered at so many food banks and shelters. You go w/out food - its your choice...or its your parents bad choice.

Sadlywe live in this day and age where our materialistic values are more important than human life. The lake of fire awaits burglars and murderers alike.
If you believe that thieves can't be forgiven, how can God ever forgive you?

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

As far as poverty goes. In America there is NO REASON to ever go w/out food. I have volunteered at so many food banks and shelters. You go w/out food - its your choice...or its your parents bad choice.

I gotta call you out on that one Cochese. Sorry chica, but I absolutely MUST disagree.

There isn't an operational food bank of any sort within at least 50 miles of me.

The few times there actually have been some, the greedy *snips* charged anywhere from 3 to 6 dollars for a meal. Kinda defeats the whole purpose right?


While I understand where you are coming from, I feel it's my duty to say that WHERE you happen to live is also a very very large factor in whether or not you go hungry.

As I type this, there is a guy that has been sleeping in a cubby hole he dug out of the bushes in the Krystal (It's like White Castle) parking lot for months.

I have actually seen him wash up the best he could and job hunt like crazy. However, he is disabled and I can't help but feel that that is part of the reason for his not being hired.

I know for fact that he was went without food for at least a week and a half and every shelter in town turned him (and many others) away.


In a capitalist society, even compassion comes with a price.

Just ask apc, I'm sure the "capitalist pig" is around here somewhere.




J

[edit on 1-12-2007 by SimiusDei]

reply to post by SimiusDei


Well, I suppose I will agree with you on that one.

Originally posted by Bluess


All i am saying is really, if there are no guns in circulation and the people of the nation has strong believes in "no guns policy" then almost noone will be killed by guns.

thats fine and all but there are hundreds of thousands of guns out there. they are NEVER not going to be in circulation...
with gun shows, people buying, selling, trading....theft of guns, etc...
the federali's can track say my wife and i but john q criminal is gonna get his piece out of a trunk....
what good does that do us.?

i really wish the whole 'if there wre no guns......'

too late for that. so now what?

i know the night stalker didn't use a gun. he used a big ass blade. same goes(i think) for the hillside strangler..
there are more...

take away a gun and it will be something home made, a zip gun, a bat, anything you can think of to do damage.

people have a right to be safe and security in their home.

and it has been established a couple times that texas law states that in 'certain instances' it is legal...so what is there left to debate?

I gotta say... the number of people that are gleeful over the deaths of a couple wayward human beings is downright vulgar.

We have no context for these criminals. We have no idea what their circumstance was. As I mentioned earlier, we know one was a father... would you steal to feed your starving child if you had no other recourse?

While people are very happy to state figures on repeat offenders, there's very little said about the number of rehabilitated criminals that go on to lead productive lives and contribute to society. I personally know a couple career criminals that are now stand-up sorts... one of whom was never caught or convicted for his crimes.

Further, almost no one is willing to talk about the system that victimizes marginalized people, forcing them out of the mainstream and into criminal behavior. Again, I have had personal experience with people like this. They are not necessarily evil. They usually don't even like what they do. They simply don't have any options... or rather, they don't see any other options.

Finally, anyone who claims to be Christian and is happy about this case will be having a little issue when it comes time to face their God. "Thou shalt Not kill" has no disclaimer associated with it. There's no sub-text that states that killing in defense a bag full of material possessions excludes you from this commandment. Any Christian should feel sorrow over this, whether or not the shooter was justified.

In short, this is a tragedy pure and simple. It's sad that the confrontation had to occur. It's sad that some people have to resort to crime to make their way in life. Most of all, it's sad that there are people that are so blood thirsty that they would calibrate the death of their fellow citizens, no matter the context.

Originally posted by Bluess
as to all the "Denmark has no poor Criminals"... most "hardcore" criminals in Denmark are drugaddicts...and i believe drugs cost a pretty penny, so go figure...

You should have said so in the first place!

I thought you meant that they had no money for food, not drugs. The reason that drugs "cost a pretty penny" is that they are illegal. I'm not great lover of drug addicts, believe me, but if governments had effective drug-treatment programs, that would do more to reduce crime than any crusade against drugs. Even putting junkies in a "hobo jungle" far from where they can do others any harm, and giving them free food, shelter, and drugs would be better than the status quo. It would keep them off the streets, that's for sure!

If anyone wants to start a thread on ethics and their beliefs please do so, but keep this thread on track and use Texas state law as your source of law, not the Bible or anything else that comes up. Stay on track and more importantly stay on topic.

I am sure that i'm not the only member that is tired of reading pages of nothing but personnel opinion that is based on something other then Texas state law.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Finally, anyone who claims to be Christian and is happy about this case will be having a little issue when it comes time to face their God. "Thou shalt Not kill" has no disclaimer associated with it.

If our immune systems worked that way, with anything other than total ruthlessness, all multicellular life on Earth would die, and damn quickly too! Society needs a stronger and more selective immune system to fight off the real parasites rather than attack parts of its own body.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
.

would you steal to feed your starving child if you had no other recourse?

^^^^of course i would...i find it hard to believe though...i made black beans and rice for dinner for myself, wife, and parents today and i think it cost me about $3
i can see if you are transient but if not, i really find it hard to believe that people can not afford beans to make a stew with or something....
15 bean, pinto, black beans.....pinto beans over fried taters...black beans over 5 minute rice....


While people are very happy to state figures on repeat offenders, there's very little said about the number of rehabilitated criminals that go on to lead productive lives and contribute to society.

^^^^^so hook us up with some links. no doubt some people actually come out and go straight but i don't think it is the norm. after they get out with a felony on their record, it's gonna be hard to get a job and they are gonna start the cycle all over again.


They usually don't even like what they do. They simply don't have any options... or rather, they don't see any other options.

^^^^^i see where you are coming from here too. still don't give them the right to come into my house.


In short, this is a tragedy pure and simple. It's sad that the confrontation had to occur. It's sad that some people have to resort to crime to make their way in life.

^^^^^you sure they HAD to do this?

Most of all, it's sad that there are people that are so blood thirsty that they would calibrate the death of their fellow citizens, no matter the context.

i don't really know what else to say...
i try to bring up good points

Originally posted by skibtz
Everyone in the USA has the opportunity to make it?

How many black presidents have you had?
How many female presidents have you had?
[edit on 1/12/2007 by skibtz]

How many presidents with ADHD have you had?
How many presidents with Tourette's Syndrome have you had?

I have far more sympathy for a middle-class white guy with Asperger's Syndrome than I have for a perfectly normal (and neurotypical) black brother raised in poverty, but who wrecks his health with drugs and STDs, and wrecks his career with criminal records.