Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

Food for thought:

"Violence does, in truth, recoil upon the violent, and the schemer falls into the pit which he digs for another." –Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Originally posted by greeneyedleo




ADULTS KNOW BETTER - No ifs, ands or buts. No excuse is acceptable IMO. Adults should be held to a MUCH higher standard then children. And adults should make the choice to NOT commit a crime.

i'm with ya dude but lets say some dudes dressed in their black hoodies are climbing in your window? you gonna ask for id?
see what i mean...

i think there are some people on here that are in fairy tale land. i am not knocking anyone here as we are ALL entitled to our own opinions..
again, real world. bad # happens ALL the time. every day. every minute homes are getting broken into.

i just feel that if you really knew what it felt like to be vandalized like that, your opinions might change...hell, maybe not but i would guess so

reply to post by Boondock78


I agree with you 100%.

I guess my response was in regards to what happens after someone is arrested for a crime....not while the crime is in progress

reply to post by Boondock78


Sorry, did I miss something, I didn't think anyone was home... it was the next door neighbor that murdered those guys wasn't it? Was he actually in danger? Where the people that actually live in the house getting robbed in danger, ie were they cowering in fear in the house, were they being raped?

Nope, no one was in danger - well you could argue that there was the danger of some cowboy running around letting loose at anything that moves with a shotgun...

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


We're mostly in agreement.

One thing worth pointing out, however, is that when you've lost your temper and said something stupid, you didn't immediately follow it up by stepping out of your house with a loaded shotgun.

From what information we have, I would come to the conclusion that this man had every intention of killing those robbers no matter the outcome of the confrontation.

if those fellas didn't want to get shot, maybe they should have been decent people instead of stealing what someone else worked for. this man has done a good thing, and if we had more of it, i do believe this country would have fewer victims.

Did some of you forget to read the Texas state law that is posted in this thread? Here a link so you can help ATS deny ignorance:
tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us...

This man has every right to watch his neighbors house and defend it. This is his choice and it is laid out in the state law.

Texas has a law that puts the fear back into the criminals and let the public take care of things as they see fit. I wish more states were like this.

There are options available in Texas and that is the problem that some of you have because your version of reality doesn't allow one to take another's life. Too bad, get over it, and move on.

I see nothing wrong with this and criminals get what they deserve. Quit arguing your view since that doesn't matter in Texas, and that is what this thread is all about, one man upholding Texasl law.

I also want to thank everyone who understands the law and allows that to be part of their reality.

reply to post by sobolwolf


i understand that but when a thread goes 13 pages, the topic veers off a bit...if you read my posts i am mostly talking about you protecting your own home....

so yeah, i guess you missed something

Originally posted by BitRaiser

He said "I'm going to kill them", then he did.
That's call premeditation, folks. It is hard evidence of murder.

If he had said "I'm going to stop them", then ended up killing them because he felt threatened, it wouldn't be so cut and dried.

I take it you haven't listened to the audio of the 911 call,
because he did not say, "I'm gonna kill them". Thats an embellishment of what he did say, and taken out of context to boot. Also, he did say I'm going to stop them.

Quote bitraiser
From what information we have, I would come to the conclusion that this man had every intention of killing those robbers no matter the outcome of the confrontation.

So your saying that if the criminals had stopped and laid down on the ground he would have shot them while they lay there?


Not.



[edit on 12/1/07 by makeitso]

Originally posted by NJ Mooch
Did some of you forget to read the Texas state law that is posted in this thread? Here a link so you can help ATS deny ignorance:
tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us...

This man has every right to watch his neighbors house and defend it. This is his choice and it is laid out in the state law.

so case closed then...

Prosecuting Horn could prove difficult in Texas, where few people sympathize with criminals and many have an almost religious belief in the right to self-defense. The case could test the state's self-defense laws, which allow people to use deadly force in certain situations to protect themselves, their property and their neighbors' property.

Despite the religious under current of the state - forgiveness has been replaced with murder first. Ask questions later.

The general populace would rather remedy the symptom - kill criminals, rather than deal with the root cause of why these people are criminals in the first place.

It has been stated in this thread that Texas is a relatively affluent state. Fantastic commerce. Incredible industry.

Why then do we see more vulnerable people slip through the net, condemned to a life of poverty, drugs and crime?

Where are their jobs in this massively wealthy state?

Where is their education?

Why is the alleged wealth of the state not used to irradicate crime and propagate an air of real freedom and democary where people do not have to bear arms at all?

The message is simple: If you don't want criminals then don't make them.

Originally posted by Siren
reply to post by IAmTetsuo

 

Also answer this question: Why do habitual criminals have so little fear of the law - and in many cases, honest law-abiding people seem to fear the law even more than criminals do?

I understand.

That could explain why honest people take the law into their own hands.

Excluding a revolution, if honest people do that wouldn't they be contributing to the very thing they are in opposition of.

In theory, yes.

But in practice, people do have a right to defend their selves, loved ones, homes, and property - and with a reasonable amount of force. We can debate endlessly about what amount of force is reasonable. I tend to side with the victim. And if the law fails to protect honest people, then it eventually fails to be the law and just becomes another criminal gang - one with badges and blue uniforms rather than black leather jackets embossed with "colours".

If someone was behaving like a comic-book vigilante and was actively hunting down what he thought were criminals in the slums, then I would have a lower opinion than someone who defended his own property (or a friend's).

reply to post by skibtz

The message is simple: If you don't want criminals then don't make them.

Im sorry, but that is a big fat cop out.

Criminals CHOOSE to be criminals. NOBODY forces them! Everyone in this country has the opportunity to "make it" and not live a life of crime.

Until someone visits a 3rd world country, nobody can say that we have poverty in this country which would cause someone to be a criminal. I dont buy it, as I have seen REAL poverty with my own eyes in other countries.

Im absolutely besides myself that anyone thinks that others force people to be criminals. Unless someone is mentally handicapped...it is IMPOSSIBLE to force anyone to commit a crime.

In Denmark you can only get a gun if you take a hunting licence, and not a "handgun", no no...a 12 gauge shotgun or simular. The licence takes about 3 months to get.
If you want a hunting riffle, you need a permit for that too.
If you have this "hunting gear", you need to have it looked up in your home when not in use.

It is almost impossible to get a lincence for a handgun, and more impossible to get your hands on a gun, if you ever get the licence.
You can get a licence for handguns in some shooting clubs, but then you can only shoot at the club, and not have your own gun.

Also there is very hard punishment for people having guns without licences, hard fine and imprisonment.

The result... almost noone gets killed by guns... most "money needing criminals" doesnt even use guns.

This is the right way to go if you ask me...
why would I even consider getting a gun? If I get rubbed, I have insurance to cover me, and I can atleast be sure that I wont accidently kill someone, who might just be a desperat teenager in need of money or the likes.

If you are so worried about burglars, it is from the fact that they most likely have a gun, this is not the case here in Denmark.
Besides...most burglars wont go near a house with a dog in it, so get a dog instead of a gun.

this whole thing with a triggerhappy asshole going out to take a shoot at burglars without any consern for the situation or the individuals... frightens me more than the burglars themself.

lets face the facts... most criminals are after money in one or another way.

reply to post by Bluess


If we had your laws and werent allowed to own guns.............what does that leave us with?

It leaves us with crimals who have guns. Criminals are not out buying guns legally and then registering them.


Also, here is a statistic. Grant it, its from 2005 - but that is still current enough.

Weapon use:

In 2005, 24% of the incidents of violent crime, a weapon was present.

Offenders had or used a weapon in 48% of all robberies, compared with 22% of all aggravated assaults and 7% of all rapes/sexual assaults in 2005.

Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns. In 2005, 55% of homicides were committed with handguns, 16% with other guns, 14% with knives, 5% with blunt objects, and 11% with other weapons.


Property crime makes up slightly more than three-quarters of all crime in the United States.

Overall, in about 84% of all burglaries, the offender gained entry into the victims residence or other building on the property.

In about 79% of all motor vehicle thefts, the vehicle was stolen.

Of the 13 million completed thefts of property in 2005, there were 4.1 million property thefts of less than $50, 4.7 million between $50 and $249, and 3.2 million of $250 or more.

Source: www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

This is a major problem in the US.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

[edit on 1-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


your missing my point...without guns in circulation, the criminals have a hard time getting guns, and since no ordinary people have guns, the criminals dont even need them.

reply to post by Bluess


How do you get the thousands and thousands of illegal guns out of circulation? The nasty old LEOs try. But its nearly impossible.

Id rather be armed myself against these thugs....then not be armed at all.

And the criminals dont have guns because the good citizens have them. They have guns to threaten the people to get what they want and kill them.

I would bet that if there are 10 houses on a block...and a criminal knows that 3 of the houses have gun carrying residents....THOSE houses wont be broken into.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
And they probably would have arrested the victim and charged him with some totally bogus "racist" hate crime!

I take it you are referring to myself, the victim?

Whilst I don't have any idea of the race/creed/religion of the people that burgled my flat, the individuals who mugged me at knife-point were white, and the ones holding the gun to my head were black.

I make no differentiation of race/creed/sexuality/faith...I will attack, right there and then if the opportunity presents itself, if not, I'll make a hot-footed escape to lick my wounds and learn from the experience

Whilst here in the UK we dont have the right to bear-arms or conceal-carry....not even a folding blade over 3" in a public place, I'm still armed to the teeth with 'unconventional weapons' when out and about and know how to use them to good effect...you're welcome to try mug me, but I doubt you'd get far with a steel biro stabbed into your armpit and a 'house-key-nunchaku' blow to the face

Originally posted by Bluess
The result... almost noone gets killed by guns... most "money needing criminals" doesnt even use guns.

What do they use instead? Knives, clubs, bats, fists, brass knuckles, teeth, claws, and the like. All these can be, and often are, deadly. Despite the movies and detective novels, and their love-taps with blunt instruments knocking someone out for 15 minutes with no lasting impairment.

This is the right way to go if you ask me...
why would I even consider getting a gun? If I get rubbed, I have insurance to cover me, and I can atleast be sure that I wont accidently kill someone, who might just be a desperat teenager in need of money or the likes.

I thought Denmark had an advanced welfare state where nobody is poor, much less so desparately in need of money as to commit violent crime. If the criminals are so poor, how come? There are government services for people in need, even in America and Canada, and more so in Denmark. Something just doesn't add up here.

If you are so worried about burglars, it is from the fact that they most likely have a gun, this is not the case here in Denmark.
Besides...most burglars wont go near a house with a dog in it, so get a dog instead of a gun.

Agreed with the bit about dogs. But these too are increasingly regulated, especially the more aggressive breeds.

this whole thing with a triggerhappy asshole going out to take a shoot at burglars without any consern for the situation or the individuals... frightens me more than the burglars themself.

I'd really fear triggerhappy assholes too, if I was the kind of honest law-abiding citizen who happens to crawl around other people's property without their permission or even knowledge!

Fortunately, most honest law-abiding citizens stick to their own property or those of people who have invited them.

lets face the facts... most criminals are after money in one or another way.

Or fear, or blood. Especially the ones who attack defenseless people. If all they wanted was money, and lots of it, why not rob a bank instead?

I'm not saying i have asolution to nation filled..well practically drowned in guns...

All i am saying is really, if there are no guns in circulation and the people of the nation has strong believes in "no guns policy" then almost noone will be killed by guns.

I know cause that is the fact in Denmark.

as to all the "Denmark has no poor Criminals"... most "hardcore" criminals in Denmark are drugaddicts...and i believe drugs cost a pretty penny, so go figure...