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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So your saying the firemen just walked by the big jet fuel fires we were told were there?
Originally posted by Damocles
well if they were ascending up the stairwells, the doors to each floor would have been closed. and unless im mistaken, dont firedoors in most commercial buildings NOT have windows in them?
Originally posted by six
Ultima.....Read the link above. It explains to YOU...again....In great detail on how the firefighters were thinking.
Originally posted by totallyhuman
The heat from the jet fuel would not be hot enough to melt the steel gurders as it has been told on news sites.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by totallyhuman
The heat from the jet fuel would not be hot enough to melt the steel gurders as it has been told on news sites.
Which raises the question, where did the molten steel come from in the debris field and what kept it molten for 6 weeks?
Originally posted by Haroki
Another source of heat is that iron rusting is an exothermic reaction. Ship loads of iron have been known to set off fires as they slowly rust.
Another source of heat would be that aluminum can auto ignite, without any spark present, at 1400F. And when air is present,it forms aluminum oxide, which can reach temps of 5000F.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by Haroki
Another source of heat is that iron rusting is an exothermic reaction. Ship loads of iron have been known to set off fires as they slowly rust.
Another source of heat would be that aluminum can auto ignite, without any spark present, at 1400F. And when air is present,it forms aluminum oxide, which can reach temps of 5000F.
So you would agree then that the fires alone did not casue the collapse?
Originally posted by Haroki
But yes, fires alone did not cause the collapse. The damage - caused by the planes - AND the fires collpased the building.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by Haroki
But yes, fires alone did not cause the collapse. The damage - caused by the planes - AND the fires collpased the building.
But as i have proven time and again from reports and evidence the buildings withstood the planes impacts.
So something else had to happen to weaken the building.
Originally posted by Haroki
When you figure that out, you'll have your answer. Good luck.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by Haroki
When you figure that out, you'll have your answer. Good luck.
And when you figure out what caused the molten steel in the debris and kept it molten for 6 weeks then you will know what helped cause the collaspe.
Please try to do some research if you want to know the truth.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
And when you figure out what caused the molten steel in the debris and kept it molten for 6 weeks then you will know what helped cause the collaspe.
Originally posted by Haroki
Another source of heat is that iron rusting is an exothermic reaction. Ship loads of iron have been known to set off fires as they slowly rust.
Another source of heat would be that aluminum can auto ignite, without any spark present, at 1400F. And when air is present,it forms aluminum oxide, which can reach temps of 5000F.
Sulfur present from drywall would have furhter accelerated this rusting. FYI - rusting=oxidation. Oxidation=burning. Burning releases heat.
Another accelerant would be the water sprayed on the fires. The water, when it cools the iron, produced steam, which when it passes over hot steel, will break the bonds between the H and O atoms, releasing heat and making H gas and O's to further accelerate the oxidation. This actually a common way to produce hydrogen, in the hope of making hydrogen fueled cars.
www.alchemix.us...
Originally posted by Freelancer
Interesting line of thought.. Why is this so important to you? You have specifically stated this helps in determining why this building collapsed. Why not tell everyone why you think this particular aspect is so important? Not too much to ask is it?
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by Haroki
Another source of heat is that iron rusting is an exothermic reaction. Ship loads of iron have been known to set off fires as they slowly rust.
Another source of heat would be that aluminum can auto ignite, without any spark present, at 1400F. And when air is present,it forms aluminum oxide, which can reach temps of 5000F.
Sulfur present from drywall would have furhter accelerated this rusting. FYI - rusting=oxidation. Oxidation=burning. Burning releases heat.
Another accelerant would be the water sprayed on the fires. The water, when it cools the iron, produced steam, which when it passes over hot steel, will break the bonds between the H and O atoms, releasing heat and making H gas and O's to further accelerate the oxidation. This actually a common way to produce hydrogen, in the hope of making hydrogen fueled cars.
www.alchemix.us...
So i will repeat my post again. You do agree that something else had to casue the heat the melted the steel and kept it molten for 6 weeks?
Originally posted by Freelancer
Interesting line of thought.. Why is this so important to you? You have specifically stated this helps in determining why this building collapsed. Why not tell everyone why you think this particular aspect is so important? Not too much to ask is it?
Well because we know the fires in the buildings were not hot enough to melt steel and they were burning out before the buildings collapsed.
So that means that something else had to cause the temps to melt the steel and keep it molten for 6 weeks.
[edit on 8-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well because we know the fires in the buildings were not hot enough to melt steel and they were burning out before the buildings collapsed.
So that means that something else had to cause the temps to melt the steel and keep it molten for 6 weeks.
[edit on 8-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]
Rapid deterioration of the steel was a result of heating with oxidation in combination with inter granular melting due to the presence of sulfur. The formation of the eutectic mixture of iron oxide and iron sulfide lowers the temperature at which liquid can form in this steel."
Physicist Steven Jones introduces the thermite hypothesis ignored by official investigations, that can explain the unusual evidence seen above:
"There is a straightforward way to achieve 1000°C temperatures (and well above) in the presence of sulfur, and that is to use thermate (or a similar variation of thermite). Thermate is a high-level thermite analog containing sulfur developed by the military.
Thermate combines aluminum/iron oxide (thermite) with barium nitrate (29%) and sulfur (typically 2% although more sulfur could be added). The thermate reaction proceeds rapidly and is much faster than thermite in degrading steel leading to structural failure. Thus, both the unusually high temperatures and the extraordinary observation of steel-sulfidation can be accounted for -- if the use of thermate is allowed in the discussion."
Thermite, one of the most common pyrotechnic incendiary agents, is essentially a mixture of powdered ferric oxide and powdered or granular aluminum. When raised to its ignition temperature, an intense reaction occurs whereby the oxygen in the ferric oxide is transferred to the aluminum, producing molten iron, aluminum oxide, and releasing approximately 750 kilocalories per gram. The reaction proceeds as follows:
8Al+3Fe.sub.3 O.sub.4.fwdarw.4Al.sub.2 O.sub.3 +9Fe
This exothermic reaction may produce a temperature of about 4500.degree. F. under favorable conditions. The white-hot molten iron and slag can itself prolong and extend the heating and incendiary action.
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