British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

Grenade it was directed at two people, if you have a problem with a set part of it please do care to quote it and then I will explain how it was in reference to you.

Otherwise, please do answer the questions.

Are you going to stop trading with China, Japan, etecetera and remove all of their products from your home as well as no longer buy anything from these nations?

reply to post by Odium


Have i said i will no longer trade or buy goods from Islamic countries? What does percieving sex with a ten year old girl as wrong have to do with trade? If i think its morally wrong then im entitled to think that am i not? Regardless of religion or what countries laws allow this action i think it is wrong. I fail to see your point.

I love the way Muslim's protest and riot at the drop of a hat yet they expect a civil response from the majority of the country they live in. If you ask me it is British citizens who should be rioting and calling for the heads of Muslims for their actions. We call teddy bears Muhammad and Muslims go mad, maybe i should be going mad for the crimes against humanity (as i see them) against young women around the world. Who would be more just in their actions?

Also in response to your earlier tirade. Sure i have admitted it may be custom to marry at a younger age in the past die to life expectancy etc. However we no longer live in that world, the only reason for it now in my opinion is lust and/or tradition.... neither of which is excusable in my opinion. May god have mercy on you for defending this barbaric practice.


[edit on 4-12-2007 by Grenade]

reply to post by Grenade


Grenade the fact you are willing to do business with such immoral people says a lot about you. Clearly the problem you have with such people is only a minor one, women being so miss-treated means very little to you as long as you can get cheap oil? Clearly your arguments loose a lot of ground when you’ll support these nations with income.

As stated before, you are nothing more than a bi-product of the socialization process. You are so indoctrinated in what’s moral and what isn’t moral you can’t explain why these morals exist. Why is the age of consent in the U.K. 16 and not 15 not 18?

You are nothing more than another individual on this website who rants and raves about how bad the Muslims are, how evil they are without any substantial forethought going into your argument. The idea that Muslims go out and riot at the drop of a hat is ludicrous, so what if a few hundred thousand go and do that? There are roughly what – 1billion Muslims? Clearly they are all going out and doing this? If you don’t mean all of them, then there’s no point posting a general statement – after all that’s called generalization.

Furthermore for a Non-Religious person, it’s ironic that you bring God into your posts so often. Why do this?

Also a practice is only barbaric due to your morals. You sound very much like a Judge who was laughed out of the legal system back in the 1980’s for placing a group of people in prison for engaging in S&M.

Fact is – prove that him marrying the girl at age 9 caused her any harm. If you cannot do this, you are raising an issue for the sake of raising it and trying to play on people’s emotions.
Fact is – you are wiling to do business with such immoral people.
Fact is – you can’t answer why you are more moral for supporting the age of consent at 16 as someone who supports it at 18, 14, 9 or no consent regulations.
Fact is – you make blanket general statements in your posts to again play on people’s emotions without any forethought.

There is no validity to your argument whatsoever. Nothing more than subjective nonsense from someone who clearly has his or her own set out agenda and I am sure it’s as plain as the nose on your face for people to see who view these threads. So answer these questions:
If they are so immoral why will you do business with them?
How did him marrying a 9-year-old girl cause her any harm?
While women are being raped, abused, etcetera in Western Society and not willing to go to court or to the police due to social stigma, why are we any better then these Islamic Nations?

And by the way, rape is illegal in many Islamic Nations but the burden of proof can sometimes be very hard. Also there’s no mention of rape directly in the Qur’an, the parts of it most often used are normally bad translations. Just like the idea that a woman’s view is worth only half that of her male counterparts is very much a misunderstanding by people.

reply to post by Odium


Reference the stats- this is what I mean by not believing the figure you bandied about. That first reference was 81% saying they received some form of "sexual harrassment"- I would love this to be illuminated, I as a male have been on the end of "sexual harrassment" from women, including getting my arse and balls groped and lewd comments.

You also throw in comments like "estimated", Im sorry that isnt good enough, most women being "sexually molested" without even knowing it, this is really getting ridiculous, you refer to night clubs, again, most men would have had their arses pinched, genitals groped, comments made etc- the wonders of throwing men and women together and heavy drinking.

You state every women you know as a close friend has been sexually assaulted, well that strikes me as odd- I have several close women friends and none have been assaulted

My logic is not flawed- quite simply people are not moving to places like Sudan, whether from new zealand or the UK. Many people move to the Australias to improve their lives, mind you, these are civilisations born out of our Christian, western culture- before you respond with "we are not the indigenous people of that land" that is true, but I did not say we were, just that the modern civilisations of the australias are born out of western culture and migration.

I note that migration out of the UK has increased in recent years, as people get fed up with the multi cultural hell hole infested on us by leftists.

There is nothing flawed about the debate, Polish people, British people, etc are not moving to Sudan.

The case in Japan is not a blanket 13, as I am sure you are aware, local authorities decision making mean in practice it is usually 17- either way you cut it, 9 years old is sick. You talk about "socialisation", this is just relativist talk trying to make everything relative- child sacrifice may have been normal to the Aztecs, but that doesnt mean it isn't wrong or sick. We have the age 16 because like it or lump it the law has to have an age to protect children from paedophiles, this may lead to cases where one 15 year old is more sexually ready than a 17 year old, but the law cant work like that, one must have set parameters, the law cannot be individualised for millions of people.

As for people not living longer back then, absoloutely, but that does not excuse having sex with a 9 year old, I mean 9 for goodness sake, plenty of time to procreate even in mid teenage years on.

So can we not judge "racism" if it is part of your culture or "socialisation"- was slavery ok, because at the time everyone was doing it- do we not look back now and point that slavery was wrong then and it is wrong now. Yes one can look at the context in historical terms, but that does not prevent someone now being able to judge it as wrong- same goes for sex with 9 year olds

Originally posted by Odium
reply to post by Grenade

 

There is no validity to your argument whatsoever. Nothing more than subjective nonsense from someone who clearly has his or her own set out agenda and I am sure it’s as plain as the nose on your face for people to see who view these threads. So answer these questions:
If they are so immoral why will you do business with them?
How did him marrying a 9-year-old girl cause her any harm?
While women are being raped, abused, etcetera in Western Society and not willing to go to court or to the police due to social stigma, why are we any better then these Islamic Nations?

And by the way, rape is illegal in many Islamic Nations but the burden of proof can sometimes be very hard. Also there’s no mention of rape directly in the Qur’an, the parts of it most often used are normally bad translations. Just like the idea that a woman’s view is worth only half that of her male counterparts is very much a misunderstanding by people.

Odium i think maybe you should come of your pedestal and back to reality. Like all beings i am subject to social conditioning which i do not deny. I also fail to see where i have made personal insults (unlike yourself), on each of my points i have stated that it is my own opinion and for someone who is making blanket statements themselves and generalising i find you to be slightly hyprocritical. Your assumption is that everyone can see through my statements, where are these people, please come forward.

To answer your questions.

1. Please state where i have claimed i see 16 as the threshold for my own personal belief as to the age of consent? Personally i think it depends on the person, one thing i do understand is that girls entering puberty arent ready for marriage. Having a daughter of my own at this age i think i have more of an insight than yourself. Playing WoW and basing your opinions on research from google doesnt do it for me friend.

Also working 60 hours a week to provide for my family hinders my activism, i do however cycle to work, spent 4 years as a greenpeace activist and if you have read my previous posts you would realise that i have actually stated "most muslims are peace loving and humane who pose no threat to society".

You are right /claps, i do not follow any religion however i am agnostic so i do not deny the existence of God, only that i do not believe humans have the ability to communicate with a force such as a proverbial "God".

Im sorry, beheading someone is immoral, im sure if i was the son of Ghengis Khan or Adolf Hitler i would have different morals however i prefer peace to war. I realise morals are personal to each of us, there are some cases where common sense allows us to accept general rules on morality tho. My point is that we should be taught as children not to believe in fairytales and be tools of religion but to believe in ourselves and be tools of humanity.

How about for once rather than defending other opinions you actually voice your own.

1. Do you think having sex with a 9 year old girl will do any harm?
2. I dont choose where my oil comes from, im afraid the morality of major corporations and thier heads comes into question here not me. I do not personally buy from these countries. I only provide heating and comfort for my family.
3. Answered previously.
4. I voice opinions not statements. Only you are stating FACTS!
5. When have i mentioned rape? Also women are not punished for being raped in this country or any western democracy. Certainly not stoned to death or sentenced to 200 lashes for being gang raped!

FACT IS - Do not presume to know me or my background. As i said, you are the only one stating facts..... until now!

reply to post by Odium


Out of curiosity, are you a Muslim or thinking of converting?

If sex with a 9 year old isnt immoral then please state one thing that is? Eating bacon?

Reply to Blueorder

I find it funny how you condemn sex with 9 year olds but than in the same Western
Society you have nine year olds that wana drink, take drugs, smoke and have under age sex teenage pregnancy is UK is highest in Europe. That’s why it’s stated in Islam that you can get married soon as you reach puberty. NO NOT FORCED TO GET MARRIED BUT GET MARRIED WHEN YOU FEEL YOU HAVE TO AFTER YOU REACH PUBERTY!
It’s because we rather have people married than them having illegal sex or babies without proper family. In Muslims it is treated very wrong that a women or man have relationships eg. Girlfriends/boyfriends with illegal kids. We Muslims can’t stand future societies that have become bastardized.
That’s why I keep saying that following Islam strictly will not only help our families but our future generations. We have something called SHAME, RESPECT, HONOUR and DIGNITY.

reply to post by kangjia57


Rather than marriage we could have proper education and condoms?

A child at 13 should still be learning and in school, not doing the school run.

So if they are allowed to make their own decisions what if they decide to have a boyfriend, drink, smoke and take drugs? O yeah, beheaded i forgot. At least we have the common sense to realise people make mistakes.

And if following Islam strictly improves family life and society why are most Islamic states behind the west when it comes to education and economy? Surely with 1500 years of experience the ME should be the centre of the world, especially considering its huge natural resources.


[edit on 4-12-2007 by Grenade]

reply to post by kangjia57


When you see me promoting kids of 9 drinking, smoking having underage sex then come back to me- as I haven't Im not sure what your point is there.

There is much wrong with modern british society, most of it down to multi culturalism, and the leftist elite who have left our universities since the 1960s

Paradoxically, the same people who are responsible for much of the social malaise (drug abuse, teenage pregnancies, one parent families, explosion of crime, etc) are the same people who have allowed and encouraged Islamic growth in the UK.

You will not find me defending such societal developments by a liberal / left small elite

Reply to Grenade

If sex with a 9 year old isnt immoral then please state one thing that is? Eating bacon?

I think drinking alcohol is immoral. You get drunk than after you don’t know what you are doing. Than you end up getting sexually harassed, or you sexually harass someone. You might end up killing someone or kill yourself either crossing the road drunk or driving drunk into someone else. Or you might just decide to murder someone in drunken state, it could be either someone you don’t like or some random person on street. I have even heard stories in UK that borthers and sisters end up having sex with each other after getting drunk or mother or son end up having sex due to being in drunk state!
Very bad stuff eh?

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to Grenade

If sex with a 9 year old isnt immoral then please state one thing that is? Eating bacon?

I think drinking alcohol is immoral. You get drunk than after you don’t know what you are doing. Than you end up getting sexually harassed, or you sexually harass someone. You might end up killing someone or kill yourself either crossing the road drunk or driving drunk into someone else. Or you might just decide to murder someone in drunken state, it could be either someone you don’t like or some random person on street. I have even heard stories in UK that borthers and sisters end up having sex with each other after getting drunk or mother or son end up having sex due to being in drunk state!
Very bad stuff eh?

Incest is always bad, although this would be much more prevalent in the Arab countries, with or without alcohol- can't see anyone here defending incest, can you eh?

Originally posted by kangjia57
I think drinking alcohol is immoral. You get drunk than after you don’t know what you are doing. Than you end up getting sexually harassed, or you sexually harass someone. You might end up killing someone or kill yourself either crossing the road drunk or driving drunk into someone else. Or you might just decide to murder someone in drunken state, it could be either someone you don’t like or some random person on street. I have even heard stories in UK that borthers and sisters end up having sex with each other after getting drunk or mother or son end up having sex due to being in drunk state!
Very bad stuff eh?

Whoa. Alcohol is very unhealthy, that's why I don't drink it, for health reasons. But your post shows the level of brainwashing you have recieved in your life, I have known MANY alcoholics, none of them randomly decided to murder people, or have sex with their mother or sister. All I can say is, wow....

reply to post by kangjia57


I tend to agree, although i dont have any problems with responsible drinking. Ie. Do not drive while drinking, drink within recommended limits. Binge drinking is a problem and im sure it does have a lot of negative effects. What is the punishment for a Muslim to drink alcohol? Im sure it reflects the crime

I also totally agree with 2Zid, i have been very drunk many times and have yet to find my Mother or sister attractive. I have also never sexually harrassed anyone. Alcohol does not tranform people into other beings, as 2Zid said your level of brainwashing is staggering.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Grenade]

Reply to Grenade

So if they are allowed to make their own decisions what if they decide to have a boyfriend, drink, smoke and take drugs? O yeah, beheaded i forgot. At least we have the common sense to realise people make mistakes.

If you are a Muslim you make decisions keeping in mind what Islam says aswel.We have Sharia law so that people make less mistakes.

And if following Islam strictly improves family life and society why are most Islamic states behind the west when it comes to education and economy?

That’s like me asking you if the West has given REAL freedom to its people and everything is nice and fair than why do the people keep committing crimes and unsocial activities keep increasing? Ohh I forgot the West gives them freedom to make their own decisions, very nice!
Well I don’t think they should be sent to prison than it’s because they have made their own free fair decisions.

Originally posted by kangjia57

If you are a Muslim you make decisions keeping in mind what Islam says aswel.We have Sharia law so that people make less mistakes.

[/QUOTE]

the nazis had rules as well, under the nazis drunkeness on the streets was not common and crime was low

[QUOTE]
That’s like me asking you if the West has given REAL freedom to its people and everything is nice and fair than why do the people keep committing crimes and unsocial activities keep increasing? Ohh I forgot the West gives them freedom to make their own decisions, very nice!
Well I don’t think they should be sent to prison than it’s because they have made their own free fair decisions.

No he asked you a question which you then ignored- ie why islamic states are so economically and educationally stunted.

You have then decided to bring up a separate issue of "freedom"- you actually contradict yourself, asking why people commit crime if they are free- this is infantile questioning and reasoning.

People will commit crime because they are people- we have a secular system of governance to cope with that, much better than the shariah you ofer

Reply to 27jd

But your post shows the level of brainwashing you have recieved in your life

So if a Muslim or someone else has a deferent view of life to what yours is. Than why is it you always say OMG TERRORISTS, EXTREMISTS, and FUNDEMENTALIST!!OMG these people don’t look at the life the way we do! They are not humans but BRAINWASHED ZOMBIES.

Like I said before matey I respect your way of life and your views but don’t just label me with BS.Debate and discuss thats what this forum is for.

Never lose sight that due to Sharia Law a woman was imprisoned for kids in her class naming a teddy Mohammed- let us never forget that is the level of imbecility, bigotry, hatred and oppression to which the followers of Sharia Law will stoop

[edit on 4-12-2007 by blueorder]

reply to post by kangjia57



I think i was referring to your brainwashed point of view regarding alcohol. Not once on this entire forum have i used the word terrorist, funamentalist or extremist. Not once.

You still didnt answer my question.

Reply to blueorder

No he asked you a question which you then ignored- ie why islamic states are so economically and educationally stunted.

Ok I will answer that question!

Muslim countries are poor and have bad economy because Because muslim countries give their natural resource
to Jews-owned companies. For example muslim countries
give their natural gas and oil to oil companies owned
by a Jewish family: Rockefeller such as Exxon,
Chevron, Amoco, Arco, etc.
For example, in 2006 Exxon posts record $36 billion
profit. That is only a company.

Indonesia for example pay tens of billion dollars to
Jews oil companies such as Exxon, Chevron, Amoco, etc
every year. Not to mention the gold and silver exploit
by another jew company: Freeport.

In other Muslim Countries the same thing happen. The
Jews companies exploit muslim natural resources such
as gas, oil, gold, silver, coal, etc. They make big
profit for that while the muslim countries become
poorer and poorer because the money that should have
for them is taken by the Jews companies.


Exxon profit US$ 36 billion while many Indonesian
people died of hunger. Because of poverty the Muslims
cannot get good education. They become uneducated.
They cannot develop or buy good weapons to defend
their countries.

On the other hand the money in Jews companies run into
the Jews capitalists and also the US and Israel
government. They can make good and many weapons with
the money.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Like I said before matey I respect your way of life and your views but don’t just label me with BS.Debate and discuss thats what this forum is for.

There is really nothing to debate, you may as well have said, in all seriousness, that you heard alcohol makes you grow horns and a tail. If you really want to debate, fine, but I think that you're not listening to what we have to say with open ears any more than we are to what you say. Seems kinda pointless, because there is no way we're going to see the way of Islam in a good light, and I think you truly believe we are a bunch of hellbound infidels. I'd truly love to see a day when Islam comes into this century, and we can all get along respecting each other, but it won't happen until the religion respects universal human rights and dignity.