British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

Grenade - Islam isn't 2500 years old.

Also it's not up to me if something is right or wrong, it isn't up to you. Honestly, I believe in freedom of speech but you also have to have some respect for what other people believe and think. It is known that Islamic people do not call "objects" by the name of their "Prophet". It is seen as insulting to some sects. Thus you should do a bit of research before you go to their country, just like people coming to work in the United Kingdom should do about this country.

As for violence, I don't believe in it. But it's subjective. If I was raised in an enviroment which has spent years at war with other factions and tribes, if I had seen war after war, person die I knew, I am sure my views of violence would be jaded. I am sure my view of religion would also be different. Religion gives people hope, normally people who otherwise have nothing.

Sometimes religion is used for good, sometimes for bad. It's known that members of the Islamic faith give to charity. Maybe that's something good we should take from them? I mean, I see people in a developed Western Nation die of starvation. I see people without a house, having to live on the street. Maybe we should think - why don't we donate more to charity to help these people? IT sickens me that we as a developed Nation have widows of World War Two Veterans unable to cope.

Islam isn't perfect nor are we.

reply to post by Odium



Sorry its late, 1500 or so years old. Although according to Muslims Islam was born at the same time as the Earth. Just like that "poof" and Humans are here.

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an .

reply to post by Odium



Sorry its late, 1500 or so years old. Although according to Muslims Islam was born at the same time as the Earth. Just like that "poof" and Humans are here.

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an word .

reply to post by Odium



Sorry its late, 1500 or so years old. Although according to Muslims Islam was born at the same time as the Earth. Just like that "poof" and Humans are here.

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an word for .

reply to post by Odium



Sorry its late, 1500 or so years old. Although according to Muslims Islam was born at the same time as the Earth. Just like that "poof" and Humans are here.

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an word for word.

reply to post by Odium



Sorry its late, 1500 or so years old. Although according to Muslims Islam was born at the same time as the Earth. Just like that "poof" and Humans are here.

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an word for word.

EDIT (Apologies, mouse just had a spasm on the post button) Anyway sleep time.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Grenade]

Originally posted by Odium
I find no offence in what anyone can say, it really doesn't bother me. But the fact is, that is their Nation and it isn't yours. You don't decide what laws they have and if you dislike those laws, say so but in reality doesn't change what she did.

Very true that she did, but I think most here are not debating whether she broke the law or not as much as the extremeness of the Islam law.

I'm sure the 400,000 killed in Darfur broke the law too... maybe they didn't get the memo either.

Originally posted by DJMessiah

As a Muslim, one of our major requirements is to educate ourselves. When a group like the Taliban claim themselves to be Muslim, and then go and kill other Muslims, while denying an education, they prove to everyone that they are the type of people who would be the real enemy of Islam.

DJMessiah,

These are the majority of my issues with Islam. It seems to be a common practice for a cleric or other religious leader to gain a very large following and then use that following for their own non-religious human purposes.

The Taliban is a good example of a very large group that kept their followers ignorant and the women slaves. To see a person or small group gain let’s say 2500 followers willing to die for their leader since whatever they do they are told it will get them into heaven even when it is against Islam law is the true monster that we face.

I’m telling you this is more of a threat to you as a Muslim than it is to me as a Christian. That threat to you is this all puts a very bad picture on the Muslim religion that could haunt you the rest of your life and you have much greater chance of dying from other Muslims because of your religion than I am.

During my year in Iraq I was never in fear as an American, but if I was living there as an Iraqi I would be in fear every day of my life. I could tell you some pretty bad stories about what would cause that level of fear in me and it had nothing to do with Americans over there.

Originally posted by Grenade
Sorry its late, 1500 or so years old. Although according to Muslims Islam was born at the same time as the Earth. Just like that "poof" and Humans are here.

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an .

Then let it happen in its own time. These sort of things happen from within the society, the more people force people to change their view the harder it becomes. Look at Europe, it took us a long time and to be honest, we still are learning from the mistakes of religion.

Furthermore, this has very little to do with women's rights in Islamic Nations. It's the rich who do well in those societies, not poor men, not poor women. But as people can see with Iran, the more we tell them what they can't do the more the society will support the President.

Religion itself, just like everything has good and bad points. It's just like us, humans, we have good people and bad people, good moments and bad moments, but killing us all of is as logical as out-lawing and attacking religion. After all, either it's the word of God or it's the acts of man. If it's God then well we are wrong, if it is man it's not fair to blame the religion but rather how the religious people act.

Reply to Xtrozero

'The Taliban is a good example of a very large group that kept their followers ignorant and the women slaves. To see a person or small group gain let’s say 2500 followers willing to die for their leader since whatever they do they are told it will get them into heaven even when it is against Islam law is the true monster that we face.'

Ok lets just say that the Taliban were totally wrong and did everything against Islam!

So if an Islamic country that applies the Sharia law and follows Islam in its true meaning as stated in the Quran. Would you class that country as a terrorist country with barbaric regime controlling it?
I mean suppose they give full education from primary level to university and everyone is being educated very well. Would you say that that country is backward and not very updated with the West and the barbaric regime has brainwashed everyone?

I’m telling you this is more of a threat to you as a Muslim than it is to me as a Christian. That threat to you is this all puts a very bad picture on the Muslim religion that could haunt you the rest of your life and you have much greater chance of dying from other Muslims because of your religion than I am.

Tell you the truth as a Muslim I feel the Jews pose the real threat to this world!
Their ambitions of extending in ME and using the West as a tool to fulfil their ambitions is certainly very scary.Damn now they even have nukes!! I fear and pray for the Muslims in ME.

Reply to Grenade

I realise religion gives people hope and that we all arent perfect, however i would never advocate beheading someone or punishing a raped woman to "lashes" for being near a man. Its about time women had equal rights and the ability to live in an open and free society, its about time children had a chance to make their own decisions rather than be forced to believe the Qur'an word for word.

The punishments that are according to Sharia law might sound barbaric but sorry that’s the way it is and will stay the way it is. Like I said before a Muslim can think its harsh but a Muslim cant change or ridicule it. Muslim Women do have their equal rights that’s why they follow Islam. If they didn’t have equal rights and they were undervalued and beaten to death by their husbands than they wouldn’t have accepted Islam and they all would have came running to the FREE WEST to get their freedom.
Why don’t you yourself go to a Muslim country and ask the Muslim women if they are being undervalued?

No Muslim can make their own decisions regarding Islam! If you’re a Muslim you follow the Quran and every word stated in it, and you follow the sunnah (what he did in his life) of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).And as a Muslim you have to love the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) more than your parents. Thats when your faith is complete. Thats the level of respect and love we him for him.

I mean if I am wrong I ask my dear brothers and sisters Muslims to correct me on this forum. If they prove to me I am wrong than I will admit I am wrong ask forgiveness from Allah for not spreading his right message.

Originally posted by Grenade
"Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated."

So once again, it is a Sin to call a teddy bear Muhammad yet it is perfectly acceptable to marry and have sexual relations with a 9 year old girl. Im sorry i would rather spend the rest of eternity in hell than follow this relic of the ancient world. I realise it may have been custom to marry girls of this age at the time. However, in his infinate wisdom and discussions with God maybe he should have realised and stated in the Qur'an that marriage to pre-pubescent girls isnt the will of God.

Without trying to premote hate or offend anyone. In my opinion Islam is a joke and its followers show a level of ignorance i never thought possible. Sure it had its uses in the past to unite and control however, the modern world does not need and will not progress if this plague of the mind is allowed to persist. Thanks for the discussion all but i find this thread sickening now.

Peace to all, im sorry for any offence caused.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Grenade]

I point you toward my previous post. Lets play a game of spot the logic? I think we might be here for a while.

reply to post by Grenade


Here we go again... third and last time I'll be posting this link. Doubtful you will reassess your position. Will be posted regardless.
It's not for you. It's for other people lest they be misinformed by your slander.

Puberty And Young Marriage In Semitic Culture

Originally posted by Odium
Islam isn't perfect nor are we.

no, but it is much worse- you will never find perfection in the land of man, but to then let this lead you down the road of relativism is nonsense

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Trimmed big quote

[edit on 4/12/07 by masqua]

That post aboves sums up why Islam is incompatible with western culture- perhaps these people who are so "devout" should move to the likes of Sudan

Every time I flush my tolit I wave and say "see you later muhammad"

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from the T&C's

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

[edit on 4/12/07 by masqua]

Sorry for all the posts my computer froze and I hit enter toomany times out of frustration

Reply to Beachcoma

Nice link matey.I Couldnt have answred the question better.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to Beachcoma

Nice link matey.I Couldnt have answred the question better.

This just strengthens my opinion that anyone who condones this behaviour is a sick, twisted, mentally unstable person. The kind of animal I would never want to be associated with.
I have a question for you, would you be happy for your daughter to be married and then have the marriage consummated at the age of 8 years old?

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from the T&C's

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.


[edit on 4/12/07 by masqua]

Reply to Grenade

So basically the point made is that a Muslim men and Muslim women can marry each other when they reach puberty.Most of the time men reach puberty at 12 and women reach puberty when shes 9.Hopefully things are much clearer to you now.