Western religion has killed more people than cancer.

Western(and mid-eastern) religion has killed more people than cancer. yet millions are deeply religious. Why? why have so meany people subscrubed fo a system that preaches peace and tolerence and yet spawn events like the crusades, holy war, and the religious digitry that runs rampant in most monotheistic systems. cant they see that this is hypocracy on a global scale? if you are religious help me understand why you believe what you believe.
thanks alot.

No, PEOPLE have killed more humans than cancer.

reply to post by superevoman


Agreed.

The 'idiosyncrosies of man-made religion' is a big part of it.

To those who follow a certain path...
...this path will be made sure.

true but in the name of religion. this is the same argument as guns dont kill peple...ect. the point is a person uses a gun/religion as a tool/justification to kill

reply to post by superevoman



So, it doesn't mean the religion is bad, it just means there are a few opportunists who will use anything to their evil advantage.

reply to post by superevoman


I'm not licking boots.

I agree with what you are saying.

I'm Spiritual, and am fed up with religious dogmas.

Period.

reply to post by thehumbleone


As always with religion, there will be extremists.

Humble?

When I took Martial arts, I remember the Sensei getting me to look at my hand. He called it the 'man' (I'm sure its spelled different)

It meant; "The Way'

Do

To have a clenched fist; but relaxed. The way of the DRagon.

Man-do - the way of the dragon.

Mind/body/spirit

reply to post by thehumbleone


i thinks its more than a few, any way, if i created a medicine that could cure 1 person of AIDs out of every 2000 yet if a smaller dose is given it kills the person, many people have stolen the medicine and used for there evil ends killing millions. would you be for or against this medicins continued manufacture?

reply to post by superevoman


Woulda...Coulda...Shoulda

If we only could do things.....
...perhaps differently.

Hmmm...the word: "Change"...takes on a whole new meaning.

Duckster I thought you were Christian?


Super nova. First of all, your unsincerity is made known by your goofy dancing banana. The reader can see that.

Now.

Whats going to happen, by nuclear weapons is the extinction of nations, the world until God intervenes.

these weapons will get into the hands of communist who will start WW3. Ands its not for defense, they want to rule the world.

Gods commands are.

" Thou shall not kill "

This is still valid. But the Crusades I thought were protecting God from the rise of a violent islam? I have not studied that that much yet so I dont know.

The religious wars in the OT were for the sins against the children of Israel. God knows who will be evil and who wont, he knows every heart because he made the heart.

You dont have a clue of the circumstances back then from a few pages of a book, and this is what unsincere people do. They judge everything they dont understand.

Gods belief is one, only one of the religions can be true. If all religions were true, than God is divided against himself in truth and revelation.

We believe in revealed truth, from miracles and teachings of Christ as the son of God.

His teachings are love God with all your heart, and your neighbor, and also love of your enemies.

So why would God contradict himself? He would not.

But the wars that happened, you dont know the circumstances fully. Trust me, the commandment thou shall not kill is still valid.

Its actually the most major sin in our church Catholic thats called one of the sins crying to heaven for vengence.

We have death penalty for completely evil people, yet its just I believe sometimes, and they are judged by (mere) human hearts, yet Gods judgemtn is questions when he knows the heart itself.


Botton line is, dont judge God, be sincere and try and understand him, because at the day of judgement you will see why stuff happened and the circumstances from justice itself.

If a human judge has justice in his heart and you trust him, why not God who made that justice?

Now, this point is insane. Wars will always happen, if not by religion, then communist and so on, yet the communist will wipe the world out with theirs because they are athiestic mindset, nobody matters.

so this point is invalid, because wars will always exist.

peace.

JesusisTruth

Much Respect Man

When I was young and mormen I was seven or somthin, and I remember reading I think in a mormen book or something scripture like Saying this. "Its better to kill one who will kill many"

I dont remember reading it in the Bible I have been thinking this would be like God saying,hmm what you think?

Originally posted by superevoman
Western(and mid-eastern) religion has killed more people than cancer. yet millions are deeply religious. Why? why have so meany people subscrubed fo a system that preaches peace and tolerence and yet spawn events like the crusades, holy war, and the religious digitry that runs rampant in most monotheistic systems. cant they see that this is hypocracy on a global scale? if you are religious help me understand why you believe what you believe.
thanks alot.

Care to statistically substantiate that?

As far as I know, many people died because of politically motivated war.

In WWII, about 60milllion people died. In WWI, about 20million.

The only religion motivated war today is in the Middle East. We have some terrorists bombings here and there, buy I don't think it's massive.

Also wars in the past, I don't think it can ever match the number of killings at a short period of time during WWI and WWII.

It's all about greed and power. War is just an excuse for that. Religion only an instrument.

[edit on 17-11-2007 by amitheone]

Superevoman,

Is your post as the op on this thread..like science..logic and reason...the very epitome??
YOu know..like did you go to public school and never get over it??

YOu know I agree with amitheones point. These are modern scientific times of great men of logic and reason which carried out WW1 and WW2.
WW1 resulted in the formation of Soviet Russia built on the logic and reason of Karl Marx and Fredrick Engles. Great men of "Reason and Logic. How many people were killed out of this greatness..logic and reason?? Then throw in the mix of the Communist Chinese..another of the offshoots of Karl Marx and Fredrick Engles. How many killed here?? Just thought you and other peoples on this board would like to know this recent fingerprint. Notice that one neednt stick people that far back in a time warp to make this point. Do you know this?? You do know this dont you. Intresting to me that historically these nations I mentioned dont like organized religion at all. 'They dont like the competition for ideas. By the way superevoman..what is the tolerance level of this system of communism for the people it intends to rule??? You do know this logic and reason yes??

Now that I have all that out of the way. In these non believing nations what is the religion they are practicing with such devoutness that they kill millions upon millions upon millions in the last 100 plus years. You do realize that to kill hundreds of millions you have to be running a very devout system right??
And here you have to go way back centurys and centurys to stick people in a time warp to make your point. The intresting thing to me is that this view is seldom taught in public schools next to the significance of it.
Are you catching on to the other hypocracy as of yet??

OK..now that I also have that out of the way..lets try a bit of logic and reason..some of us use so little of it.

Watch the Crusades here. The Crusades are standard M1 issue logic and reason used by so many to fingerprint others. So let us take this another step in logic and reason.

The Church at Rome gets the credit for the Crusades...yes? Yet so many are wont to use this as a broad brush to label all of Christianity for what was instituted by the Church at Rome.

Enter logic and reason. The Church at Rome has a Bible..yes?? Please show me from the Bible instructions itself where the Church ..any Church is authorized to carry out a Crusade....ever??? While you are at it ..show me any bible instruction to make converts by the Sword??
Once you understand this concept...you realize that the Church at Rome is operating or has operated in the past outside of thier Biblical mandate. They have been disobedient. They are in fact ..a counterfit church. Yet you and so many here use them as a broad brush to paint all Christians.

Dont worry superevoman...even most Christians cannot reason this out. Too deep for them too. You are safe here asking such questions of Christians who cannot think outside of thier public schooling too.

Oh..while I am at it ...there is no such instruction from the Bible to carry otu a inquesition either ...further evidence of the disobedience of the Church at Rome.

I am not necessarily picking on the Church at Rome either since I can also historically make similar claims about the Church of England.

Now superevoman..I can also make such claims about the very devout religion of Politics. Yes one can make a case for the Body Politic being a religion complete with a priesthood. The difference here is that the conduct book or Bible of Politics is obviously not for general public consumption or knowlege. This hints at a feudal system. A system for insiders and a system for outsiders. This is one of the fingerprints that nonbelievers like to claim for many of what they label religions. It applies to politics too. Politics just like the religions you like to use logic and reason against is a definite system of whoredom since it so obviously barters the souls of its constituency willing or not. This pattern should be obvious to those who study religions.

When I read posts like yours it comes across precisely like a politician today. Using such techniques as a default setting on this computer. It automatically goes there and people just dont have any answers...you just default through on your logic and reason.

Ever watch olde Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson..they so often use race as a default setting to play through like a very sharp astute politician. Arent both of these guys preachers?? Very few people can use reason and logic to stand up to them. They just default through.

I see the same pattern in what you are posting..expecting to default through. Others on this ATS/BTS boards use the same or similar logic and reason.

You do know that a system for insiders and a system for outsiders...this religious practice and system is called "Occult." You do know this yes??
Hidden and concealed from those it intends to rule. With unknown patterns of conduct. Unknown by the general public. This too is a default ..except that it is often not known by those that it affects. They dont even know that a default has taken place. This is politics. The very nature of politics. And it is whoredom. Occult is a term which is religious in nature. Check it out in history. Occult Religions. Concealed, Hidden, Known often by only a chosen few.

You need to know superevoman that there are people out here who can think and reason outside the standards of public education. The standard issue mantras so popular today by so many of logic and reason..even science.

OH..by the way..on the subject of guns killing people ..you need to look at the statistics on motor vehicles killing and injuring people. Use logic and reason here. Use science here please.

Anyway...hope you get my point about logic and reason...science etc etc.
Also about history and the angles from which it is taught.

Thanks,
Orangetom

almost every war in history has been motivated or atleast has been said to be motivated by religion in some form(even if those who said it were not sincere) also many killings on a smaller scale by individuals that have claimed to be religiously(or divinely) motivated. also cult suicides and killings can also count as religiously motivated( though i realize this is skirting being relevant)

Religion is only one of a plethora of excuses for launching wars of aggression.

The three greatest mass murderers in history: Mao, Stalin, and Hitler were irreligious in the extreme, yet they're the trio that are used as the epitome of evil, and deservedly so. Religion had little to do with their bloody reigns save as victims.

I have little use for organized religion...but it's not the boogey-man as so many seem to think.

Orangetom. Well said, and explained. Certainly better than I could have done...

reply to post by orangetom1999


"Enter logic and reason. The Church at Rome has a Bible..yes?? Please show me from the Bible instructions itself where the Church ..any Church is authorized to carry out a Crusade....ever??? While you are at it ..show me any bible instruction to make converts by the Sword??
Once you understand this concept...you realize that the Church at Rome is operating or has operated in the past outside of thier Biblical mandate. They have been disobedient. They are in fact ..a counterfit church. Yet you and so many here use them as a broad brush to paint all Christians.

Dont worry superevoman...even most Christians cannot reason this out. Too deep for them too. You are safe here asking such questions of Christians who cannot think outside of thier public schooling too.

Oh..while I am at it ...there is no such instruction from the Bible to carry otu a inquesition either ...further evidence of the disobedience of the Church at Rome. "-orangetom

hmmm nice, however, it matters not if any church is acting out side its religious "mandate" or not. religion has massive amouts of sway power, many people will get behind a cause supported by religion no matter what. do i think we should do away with religion? no. i do not. people go all screwy if they dont have a higher power to believe in, just like in comunist contries. individual atheists and agnostics who dont need established religion to function as a normal human beings with out it however they are usualy a minority. why? i dont know why. this post is designed to be part of a string of posts i am creating to help me understand religion, not offend those who believe, i am sorry if it did. i do not yet have enough info on this subject to argue effectively with you, thus the posts. i am in the pursuet(?) of knowledge.

i do not think the romon catholics are the only or the worst who misinterpret the bible. many american orthodox christian systems misinterpret all the time. does not it say some were in the bible that you cant (or shouldnt) force belief on the unwilling? i am not sure if it does correct me if i am wrong. thanks

Originally posted by seagull
Religion is only one of a plethora of excuses for launching wars of aggression.

The three greatest mass murderers in history: Mao, Stalin, and Hitler were irreligious in the extreme, yet they're the trio that are used as the epitome of evil, and deservedly so. Religion had little to do with their bloody reigns save as victims.

I have little use for organized religion...but it's not the boogey-man as so many seem to think.

Orangetom. Well said, and explained. Certainly better than I could have done...

while hitler may not have been directly motivated by religion he used it as a guise to get more support, which in my mind is just as evil. he said something to the effect that the persecution the the jews and the entire idea of the 3rd riche(?) was diviney mandated. so naturaly he got many supporters( however he didnt publicly state that he was gunna gass millions of jews)

who is super nova? i will takit by your next comments your talking about myself. i am sincere 100% i used the bannana because i wanted to let people know that i was trying it be more friendly than anti religion or what ever. besides i like the bannana so deal with it. lol

as for the rest of your post, where did you find this out?

[edit on 013030p://0711pm by superevoman]

Superevoman,

I am saying ..be very careful as to what constituted logic and reason in this topic line. It is very easy to deceive people on this topic if they have never had but a public school education..ie ..a television education majoring mostly in emotions and makeovers.

The reason you see so many references to the church being involved in wars is the very political economic systems of most nations. THey were all without variations, until the late 1700s, Feudal in nature. Feudalism.

In feudal nations..both in the orient and here you had variations of god men who were put in or inherited offices or titles and thier reigns were often for life and supported by a priesthood. Hence when they went to war ...as a nation...as a demigod king or emperor...the priesthood went with them. Their claims to power were heavily dependent on the religious authority. It was a dual effort fleecing system for power. A few people lived reasonably well on the labor and efforts of the many. This is the essence of fuedalism..a royalty ..including the priesthood who lived well off others while the others had very little.
This was the status quo of many nations in history. Hence it is very easy to put everyone back in a time warp situation to make claims as you are wont to do.

Contrast this history with the slaughter of nations and peoples as I posted in recent times..times of logic and reason ..logic and reason of Intelligences..sophists, magi, Wise men. YOu will see a very different picture than public education is wont to teach us.

I am not justifying what went on back then. I merely point out that it continues and waxes worse under "reasonable men" of today. Nothing has changed..it only got worse. But we dont claim religion as a source today. I disagree ..it is religious in nature but the religion is undefined to most peoples. They dont even know or see the connection.

What you had in the RCC was a continuation of the older systems...such as Babylon, ancient Egypt...Mesopotemia...and others. IN the orient there were simply oriental variations of this system. All God men or demigods or protectors of the faith...the demigod faith in order to keep their absolute power.

This is not what is outlined in the Bible. The power is not of this earth..not of this world.

There were always peoples who do not and did not back then adhere to this system of god kings or emperors. They were a minority back then and still are a minority today. Nothing has changed here.

What these olde religious systems are trying to do is make a comeback under the guise of Christianity ..but are in fact counterfits. They are attempting to Hijack Christianity for political purposes. They have been remarkably successful in this last century and continuing on unto today.

As I have stated..politics itself is a religion and is part of the hijacking back to the olde systems ..particularly variations of the olde Egyptian systems. They are attempting to insert Occult beliefs and practices into most Churchs. The amazing thing to me is that most Christians are totally ignorant as to how this is being done.

Study the olde feudal systems and their connection to the religions..thier dependency on them for power and control. The control of men..not God...over the affairs of this world. Then view the wars through this new knowlege. You will eventually see a different picturre than one taught in most of public education. You will even see public education as a deception. I have caught it several times on the history/discovery.
Remember the concept of hijackings and counterfits.

Must shove off to work now...will post more when the opportunity allows.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by superevoman
Western(and mid-eastern) religion has killed more people than cancer. yet millions are deeply religious. Why? why have so meany people subscrubed fo a system that preaches peace and tolerence and yet spawn events like the crusades, holy war,

What do you mean? Worshipping Ishtar is a middle-eastern religion. Why these accusations against it? Please explain why you imagine that Horus preaches peace or leads crusades.

Seriously, why on earth are you trying to bundle together disparate things?

Why does Islam involve mass murder? Because that's what Islam commands. If you are objecting to this, explain where you get your value that Islam is wrong on this. If you are not saying this, explain why you criticise Islam.

Why do Christians engage in mass murder? Well, first find your Christians who do. That you have to talk vaguely about the crusades of 1000 years ago sort of gives the game away. How many people are killed by 'Christianity'? How do they die? Of boredom? Those pew-bibles can be vicious when cornered? Torn to death in Manhatten by frenzied episcopalians? Again, specifics please.

Again, why did all the Jews last year round up 6 million Arabs and gas them? Because the Torah told them to? Or because there simply wasn't anything else to do on Saturday nights? Or did it happen at all?

I realise that you probably live in fear of being raped and murdered by Zoroastrians -- a crime that is on the increase in white middle-class suburbs, no doubt. But are you suggesting that they gang raped your poodle because the Avesta said so?

There is a great risk, surely, of repeating uncritically anti-Christian sloganising of the kind above. It's just mental slop, put out by the people who control the media agenda in our day, and don't want people putting a stop to their wenching, drinking, stealing and drug-taking. It is the dirtiest knaves are always loudest in their talk against Christian 'extremism', and we should always count our spoons when those in authority try to prevent criticism of their sleazy dishonesties.

The main risk in repeating this sort of cant is of being a damn fool.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

[edit on 17/11/2007 by roger_pearse]