Russia suspends arms treaty -- The World War III Wheels are in Motion.

I think OP is making a mountain out of a molehill. How the heck is this going to result in WW3? Mutually Assured Destruction is still in force...I doubt any nuclear power is going to make a serious move out of fear of a global holocaust.

Not to get religeous here or anything, but the book of Revelation in the Bible completely supports the theory of a mounting threat in Russia and maybe even Putin being the antichrist. Take a look here:

Revelation 13: Russia -- is it headed for dictatorship? -- will the Antichrist come out of Russia?-- a Bible prophecy and New Age analysis

Link to external source

[edit on 093030p://333 by For(Home)Country]

Make the call, push the button, launch. Who cares? Their isn't much left anyway.

[edit on 7-11-2007 by pc is here]

reply to post by For(Home)Country


sorry, from european view, bush is like antichrist to us.

I think that Putin's nationalistic pride is seriously still wounded because the USSR lost the cold war. As ridiculous as it sounds, I really think that his main goal is to get back at the US for what he sees as the "humiliation" of defeat. (No wonder they get along with Iran so well. They both have hardons for not being "humiliated.") The thing about Russia supposedly being able to "defend itself" against U.S. or Western aggression, is that the U.S. just wants to keep making money and stop having to deal with so many nutjobs in the world. But is anyone naive enough to believe that Russia would be so benevolent to the defeated if it were to emerge as the victor in a cold war type conflict? Come On! The U.S. and its allies tried to help Russia become a democracy and an economically stable one at that. Russia would simply give the U.S. the courtesy of death after forcing it to dig its own grave.

Although I will concede that the U.S.'s nationbuilding has been somewhat haughty and definitely poorly executed in the last few decades, and I can understand how people might think the U.S. is just being imperialist and greedy by starting all these wars, etc. I really think it's an issue of the best defense being a good offense. Pretend for a second that the mid east wasn't led by crazies who desire world domination at any cost, and that the region was peaceful and populated by allies, and that the oil would always be there to buy at a fair price...Do you still think the U.S. would be starting wars with them? Of course not. The U.S. is simply trying to protect its economy from being ruined by some crazy despot or sore loser, to (preemptively) protect itself from being attacked by crazy jihadists, and to ensure that this state of protection can continue long after the current administration is gone.

My $.02

if anyone is the antichrist its probaly you russia is not the antichrist. this isnt a witch hunt this is reality.

Originally posted by mentalempire
I think OP is making a mountain out of a molehill. How the heck is this going to result in WW3? Mutually Assured Destruction is still in force...I doubt any nuclear power is going to make a serious move out of fear of a global holocaust.

I agree. Nothing says "warm and fuzzy" like tanks being moved to the border of Europe.

reply to post by Black_Fox


True, a real crisis isn't needed. A false flag would do the job as well, but i think the way things are going 'they' won't need to orchestrate a hoax. A crisis will develop all by itself in the near future.

The breakdown of relations between the East and West has begun again, with new enemies and allies putting their hands on the table faster than we can count them.

Israel, Pakistan, Iran, Syria and Turkey are all making their intentions known on the world stage, and it is only a matter of time before one runs out of tolerance for another.

Then we have the whole 'US led peacekeeping' scenario which, depending on the country in question, could very well create the international incident required for WW3 to begin.

If any military action is taken against or involving Iran, Russia is likely to scramble it's Spetznatz to protect their interests in the country. Putin said this himself not so many months ago.

All it would take is for any 'Coalition' troops to 'accidentally' (or not so accidentally) fire on Russian guards and the war begins.

Once again, all my opinion, but the pieces of the puzzle seem to be falling into place just like they did before Iraq. The propaganda machine is in full swing, with US ministers mentioning the words Iran and War way too often for comfort.


[edit on 7-11-2007 by fooffstarr]

[edit on 7-11-2007 by fooffstarr]

reply to post by pluckynoonez


Do you really agree or are you just being sarcastic? Sorry, this is the internet and sarcasm is often impossible to detect. Well, about those tanks. I wouldn't worry about it, after all, we moved the "chess pieces" around a lot during the Cold War, didn't ever really mean anything.

Originally posted by mentalempire
reply to post by pluckynoonez

 

Do you really agree or are you just being sarcastic?

Sorry, this is the internet and sarcasm is often impossible to detect. Well, about those tanks. I wouldn't worry about it, after all, we moved the "chess pieces" around a lot during the Cold War, didn't ever really mean anything.

Nothing ever rarely means anything. The cold war was for pussies, as any posturing is now. It is important to realize that tanks are just tanks, and not heavily armored trucks (with those tank tracks for back wheels). The difference is the former can drive through brick walls, and the latter looks really cool. The point is: why worry when what me is going on? Bush is a uniter and not a divider...and thank God for that.

reply to post by pluckynoonez


Jesus, do you REALLY think I'm a Repugnantcan't? Please...

reply to post by Rasputin13



Absolutely agree, about time more people became privy to the obvious. Seems everything is blamed on the Bush admin. these days.

I'm hoping, with my fingers crossed, and my prayers.... that humanity will not have to learn this lesson the hard way.

I have come to realize that war creates nothing of value, neither does it save what you cherished.

We must learn to get along, and solve our problems mutually. The faith and credit we have granted our leaders has been misplaced...

I believe the collective wisdom of the human race is much greater than any leader has to offer. And I think with the internet, there is the very real possibility that the future will be one of communication, understanding, progress, and a very less threatening and frightening world for us to live in.

Isn't this what we all want?

I do not place my faith in supposed heroes, I put my faith in what is in ALL of us: the human spirit.

Originally posted by For(Home)Country
Not to get religeous here or anything, but the book of Revelation in the Bible completely supports the theory of a mounting threat in Russia and maybe even Putin being the antichrist.

[edit on 093030p://333 by For(Home)Country]

I have serious doubts about the authority of the bible. Not counting my own confusion after having read the thing, TWICE, see google video "Zeitgeist" and evilbible.com

Too many contradictions, too much of human character in the supposed words of "god". I won't even begin to talk about all the things Goethe, Rilke, or Nietzsche had to say on the subject, since they are considered cliche this hour...

I tend to try and clear my mind, and establish silence within me, and "feel" the truth whispered to me from the universe. I find echoes of this in eastern religions, and a little in what we call christianity, though christianity in its strictest sense seems like a plagiarism of ancient myth. (See Jordan Maxwell)

I do believe a fingerprint of truth imprints itself in every aspect of existence, and I think the bible has a part of this, but.... I am no longer frightened by "apocalyptic" predictions based on something gathered from the testaments. I believe every fragment of every moment of existence contains within it possibility of apocalypse and bliss, depending on our choices. So much of life seems to me to be how I choose to feel, irrelevant of current events. There are boogeymen and saviours everywhere...

I take a breath, and stare at the sky. The sun is still shining.

Mutual Assured Destruction only works if both sides fear death. If one side things that the highest honor is dieing and you get 40 virgins or whatever, Mutual Assured Destruction doesn't work. It takes two to tango


1)) Errrr China has a larger army, can put 1 fighter in the air for every bomber the WEST can feild ( not just the US but the entire WEST ) and has every bomb you have, i.e. its another superpower. And just what do you think Russia has kept??? You guys are struggling in Irag what, FIVE years later......hmmmmm anyone heard of Vietnam??

America is fighting a PC war in Iraq. We are struggling by choice. Winning hearts and minds in not like winning a war. If America wanted to we could turn the whole country into glass or use regular bombs and turn the place into a parking lot and then we could really take the oil. American army/government is playing with kid gloves. When you have the power to do what you want and you don't that what makes something/someone good.


3) Agreed with the point if someone wants to start violence they will,but strength???? One strong man only gives birth to a challenger. Tolerance is needed above all. Instead of dictating to them how they SHOULD rule, how about discussing it with them . in the end, if the people didnt want it, they would change it... Maybe you should ask them WHY they are so keen for it.

Next time your out in a bar and some guy about to kick you butt, tell all your friends they should be tolerant and then you can tolerantly take the guys butt kicking he will apply on you. I am not saying fighting solves all the answers but i am saying if someone wants to kill you that talking to them probably is not going to change their opinion. More often you will end up dead.


4) China does not need exports. wake up pal. they can stop production of everything and simply wait for the world to collapse which would probably happen in about a week or two. When was the last time you heard of anything being xported TO china??? other than fuels...


my post talked about china exporting their goods and to me your post sounds like you are talking about imports to china. my point is china needs to export their goods so their economy can keep growing. i probably have tons of stuff that is made in china.

reply to post by SimiusDei


All you peacenik cowards step aside. The hawks will protect you stupid idiots. You can continue to lay out at the beach or msg each other blah blah blah ... We will fight and die for your right to be useless and pointless.

reply to post by humanunnaki


Oh how macho.... be still my beating heart

Fool! War and violence are always...always a failure of reason. Granted it is sometimes necessary, but that doesn't change that fact.

they got their bottoms slapped by afghanistan, and kicked by the states in the cold war.

they're not above getting another smackdown if thats what they're looking for. we got plenty for them and iran.

Originally posted by sc2099
I think that Putin's nationalistic pride is seriously still wounded because the USSR lost the cold war.

They didn't lose the cold war.....

As ridiculous as it sounds, I really think that his main goal is to get back at the US for what he sees as the "humiliation" of defeat.

The US had no means to defeat the USSR in 1980 or 1989 and if the USSR's leaders wanted to suppress the rebellions they could have easily done so.

(No wonder they get along with Iran so well. They both have hardons for not being "humiliated.")

Iran has already been humiliated by decades of imperialism and us backed dictators so all they are trying to do is avoid more of the what they know will come their way if they do not fight as best they can.

The thing about Russia supposedly being able to "defend itself" against U.S. or Western aggression, is that the U.S. just wants to keep making money and stop having to deal with so many nutjobs in the world.

The US national security state supports the majority of those so called 'nutjobs' and have for a very very long time.

But is anyone naive enough to believe that Russia would be so benevolent to the defeated if it were to emerge as the victor in a cold war type conflict?

Maybe things will get worse for Americans and Europeans but for most of the rest of the world conditions will probably improve...

Come On! The U.S. and its allies tried to help Russia become a democracy and an economically stable one at that. Russia would simply give the U.S. the courtesy of death after forcing it to dig its own grave.

I think whatever democracy we can observe in Russia today is entirely due to the actions and organizations of native Russians.

Although I will concede that the U.S.'s nationbuilding has been somewhat haughty and definitely poorly executed in the last few decades, and I can understand how people might think the U.S. is just being imperialist and greedy by starting all these wars, etc.

It's surprising that even the imperialist are seeing shortcomings! If only you truly understood the consequences of us 'nation building' ( and if the results of their nation building is anything to go by democracy was not the intent in even one instance) you must become a anti-imperialist.

I really think it's an issue of the best defense being a good offense.

In a ideal world where nations mind their own business and are led by representatives that were truly elected by the people i am all for everyone being armed to the teeth and ready to bring the fight to anyone who intervenes in their internal affairs. As things stand i can not advocate anything but purely defensive weaponry.

Pretend for a second that the mid east wasn't led by crazies who desire world domination at any cost,

It's not led by crazies and they are not looking for world domination , beside possible Israel, so we can pretend as much as you like!

and that the region was peaceful and populated by allies,

Why would anyone wish to ally with a imperialist nation that will destroy them if they diverge even slightly from their assigned duties? SH were a GREAT ally but because he was not tyrannical enough and was developing Iraq into quite a model society for the middle east ( most doctors, teachers, engineers etc) Iraq had to be destroyed before other nations in the region got similar ideas and attempted to erect other social models.

and that the oil would always be there to buy at a fair price...

It has and the US have had to occasionally intervene to ensure suitable high prices through which to maintain dollar supremacy.

Do you still think the U.S. would be starting wars with them? Of course not.

It's not about money, profit or anything as mundane as is evident by all the unprofitable things the worlds leadings corporations have done in the past.

The U.S. is simply trying to protect its economy from being ruined by some crazy despot or sore loser,

Instead the US economy is being ruined by US corporations, the US government ( who else has the power to destroy the dollar trough perpetually and massively increasing the money supply) China and a host of foreign nations that are trading with the US in exploitative ways.

to (preemptively) protect itself from being attacked by crazy jihadists,

So why did the fund so many of the fundamentalists and terrorist organizations they now pretend to be fighting? Just another accident?

and to ensure that this state of protection can continue long after the current administration is gone.

Russia's conventional strategic forces ( their nuclear chemical and biological ) is stronger than their US counterparts and they also operate sufficient defenses to make any attack by similar US strategic forces largely ineffective. The Russian federation is operating from a position of strength and their alliance with China and India is making the US position increasingly perilous.

My $.02

$ .002...

Stellar

Stellarx, haven't seen one of your posts in a long time. Still posted to the russian consulate in Capetown, I see.

Summing up another of your mind-numbing posts, I get that everything good that has happened in russia is due solely to the russians, while anything bad is (of course) the fault of the U.S. (or someone not russian). See, it would have only taken you seconds to type something with the same meaning as what you wrote.

Oh, BTW, did the U.S. help the russians at all to win WWII?

And russia didn't lose the cold war? Your empire fell apart. Some of your military basically had to walk home after being booted out of eastern Europe. Your military technology was left to rust. Numbers of your WMD's had to be secured by the U.S. and other countries. Don't argue, I know people .... Continue to boast all you want, any rational person would see the above as a (huge) defeat. And we all do in spite of your unending posts.

At any rate, the thread is about the meaning of russia suspending the arms treaty. To me, the premise that russia is stuck between trying to regain the hollow super power status it had during the cold war and at the same time trying to keep being relevant is still quite valid. Truth is that russia has been reduced from the status of a major adversary to the status of just being a thorn in the U.S. side, one we have to throw a bone to every once in awhile - and that's what really hurts (you).

[edit on 11/8/2007 by centurion1211]