Australia governed in secret?

Originally posted by christian952

Our current Prime Minister has a virtual clone, being the current Opposition 'Leader'. They are one and the same, it's frightening. If I can steal the promo line from Aliens vs Predator: "Whoever wins, we lose."


It's the same in the Uk. the difference between the 2 main opposing parties is minimal. Going back 20 years, there was a huge difference. Both parties are now the same politically.

Very similar in the U.S. as well, but with one key difference. They seem to split the most important issues between the two parties. For example, I am against gun control (Republican) and for a public health system (Democrat.) And there are far more important issues to me. Each party tells me right out in the open that for every good thing they will do, they will counter it with something bad for the country.

Originally posted by justsomeaussie
Damn well that didn't edit the way I wanted.

But just to recap. You feel you are being controlled because you are being FORCED to:

Hand in firearms
Wear a bicycle helmet
Send your children to school
Not be allowed to read infomation regarding UFOs

Handing in firearms leave the people powerless to resist by force the final stages of the NWO being established.

Wearing a bicycle helmet means profits for the legal system and insurance companies. Where do you draw the line? Walking is now illegal because you might trip and bang your head?

Sending your children to school...to learn to be good citizens of the NWO. I am not against education, but if public schools in Australia are like they are here in the US, then school is not really about learning. It's about control, economics, and conditioning.

Are you really not allowed to read about UFO's down under?! Wasn't there a famous quote about where they burn books they will eventually burn people? Well I guess UFO's aren't just read about in books. "...The second way of enslaving a people is to supress the sources of information, not only by burning books but by controlling all the other ways in which ideas are transmitted." -Eleanor Roosevelt, former First Lady of the US

reply to post by tezzajw


Are UFO's really considered a matter of national security down under? That would seem to be at least some sort of official acknowledgement. They simply "don't exist" up here in the States.

Originally posted by tezzajw
I don't think that you completely understood what I posted, but that's ok. I never claimed that we don't have it 'easy' in Australia compared to other countries. Sure, we do. However, we are still controlled and we still lose basic freedoms that are taken by governments.

I'm not entering a point-by-point blow against your arguments, you have your opinions on what freedom is. We're not a 'free' society and we never will be. We do as we are told, or we are penalised for breaching the 'rules'.

You may, if you choose, think that you are totally free, if that helps you get through your working day. I don't mind.

I personally don't like being lied to by a government that is supposed to be open and transparent - especially with regards to UFO/Alien reports and investigations. Hang on, what's that key phrase - 'National Security' - they won't have to tell me anything anymore and I can believe what I am forced fed to believe.

[edit on 19-11-2007 by tezzajw]

I see this has two possible answers.

1. There are no aliens and the government isn't covering anything up.
2. There are aliens and the government is coverning it up.

Honestly, do you think globally, it would be kept a secret? There are so many wild and crazy theories out there why aren't they all true. Like I said before if aliens have the technology to travel this far they must be crazy to just deal with just the governments.

Think about it Alpha Centauri is 4.22 light years away, that is it takes 4.22 years travelling at the speed of light to get to earth. And thats just the nearest star, if they were coming from somewhere else it would take thousands of years just to get to earth. What waste of time. Now of course you'll say, oh well they'll have faster than light technology or wormhole techonlogy, but the problem is you are just guessing. You really hope there are aliens and will use any means to justify them existing, including the government covering them up.

Handing in firearms leave the people powerless to resist by force the final stages of the NWO being established.

I guess that is if you believe there is a NWO and that if there is having personal weapons will do anything to stop it. Honestly, tell me how will having weapons stop a new form of government?

Wearing a bicycle helmet means profits for the legal system and insurance companies. Where do you draw the line? Walking is now illegal because you might trip and bang your head?

Actually it means less profits as you can't sue as much. In Vietnam hundreds of people die everyday as there are no laws for wearing helmets on bicycles. In any society there are always laws, there have to be laws for it to work, otherwise its not a society its anarchy.

Sending your children to school...to learn to be good citizens of the NWO. I am not against education, but if public schools in Australia are like they are here in the US, then school is not really about learning. It's about control, economics, and conditioning.

You really want to believe in NWO don't you. In Australia we have the ability to choose what school you want your kid to go to and even to school them at home if you don't like the others. So in your instance you can teach your kids all your conspiracy ideas.

Are you really not allowed to read about UFO's down under?! Wasn't there a famous quote about where they burn books they will eventually burn people? Well I guess UFO's aren't just read about in books. "...The second way of enslaving a people is to supress the sources of information, not only by burning books but by controlling all the other ways in which ideas are transmitted." -Eleanor Roosevelt, former First Lady of the US

Yes, we are allowed to read about UFOs in Australia, you may find it surprising but it is the US that has one of the tightest media controls in the world. The US has the least amount of "free speech" in the western world. The US is so tied up in the "right" to do anything that they can't see the forest for the trees. Read up about the "right" to bear arms and you'll find out that it actually means the right to have an army it's only the hicks that say it's for personal weapons. Somehow even the hicks in Australia think they have some "right" as well but it's only because they watch too much American tv.

Like it or not, sinister or not, I think the NWO is inevitable.

I still don't see the need for a helmet law.

The right to bear arms is not just about having an army, or militia. It's about self-protection as well. Wether protectiong oneself from a car-jacker, a crocodile, or starvation.

I am glad to hear that home-schooling is allowed. I am all for education, but not a big fan of institutions. Children certainly need an understanding of core subjects at the very least.

I also agree that free-speech is quite restricted here in the States. Most people here don't see that almost everything the hear or read is filtered through a very small handful of people. The question about UFO censorship down under was legit, someone stated (perhaps misstated) that the subject was forbidden.

God has given us freedom of choice. The more laws there are, the more you can blame governments for people not exercising their God-given right wisely. And who is the government to deny divine right anyway, especially in a Democracy? The governments are micro-managing our lives, while they can't even manage their responslibility to the people.

[edit on 22-11-2007 by jackinthebox]

Try and ask ASIO, DSTO, CSIRO or the RAAF if you can read their files on UFOs/Aliens and see what type of response you receive.

You will not be allowed to read their files, as they won't admit to having any of them. Government agencies conceal that which they do not want to be revealed to the general public. It is a direct attempt to fool the public with deliberate obfuscation of safeguarded information.

reply to post by tezzajw


The US CIA has released reams of documents pertaining to UFO's. A lot of it is just raw data without any interpretation. Many lines have been blanked out of course, but much of it is good evidence of a true phenomenon however one chooses to interpret it. Also, there have been top military officers and politicians who have admitted seeing UFO's. Of course they're not going to release real specifics any more than they will reveal details of nuclear or stealth tech.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Try and ask ASIO, DSTO, CSIRO or the RAAF if you can read their files on UFOs/Aliens and see what type of response you receive.

You will not be allowed to read their files, as they won't admit to having any of them. Government agencies conceal that which they do not want to be revealed to the general public. It is a direct attempt to fool the public with deliberate obfuscation of safeguarded information.

Ok, I'm not entirely sure why you are asking DSTO or CSIRO about aliens or even the RAAF for that matter. What simply if there weren't any aliens and you are wrong? They can't show you stuff they don't have.

If I say to you I think you are hiding aliens in your house, show me evidence otherwise, what you can do? That is effectivly what you are saying to these agencies.

I spent 9 years in the military and work in areas never saw anything even remotely close to such things.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Try and ask ASIO, DSTO, CSIRO or the RAAF if you can read their files on UFOs/Aliens and see what type of response you receive.

You will not be allowed to read their files, as they won't admit to having any of them. Government agencies conceal that which they do not want to be revealed to the general public. It is a direct attempt to fool the public with deliberate obfuscation of safeguarded information.

I can tell you right here and now, none of those organisations have the remotest interest in UFOs. In fact, for the RAAF (and having been on the receiving end of a few requests and reported sightings) anything to do with UFOs is referred to the local UFO club. The only time the RAAF would be interested in it is if it involved a possible RAAF asset, and then it comes down to a safety issue. The assumption that there HAS to be something on UFOs in classified files is the problem with your arguement. It is hard to release something you don't have. Look at all the other classified material that is released regularly (25 years from memory?). There is very little that isn't released in the fullness of time, and that which isn't is because it relates to systems and capabilities that are still being used for intelligence gathering. And how does this "fool" the public?

Your other points I personally disagree with, but I can understand your frustration. Why should those who want guns (why you would I'll never know, but that's a whole different kettle of flathead) be punished in the off chance that one turns out to be a psychotic serial killer? And given that most psychotic serial killers will find a way to carry out their plans, even if guns are banned. Same with the alcohol on the streets. I hate walking along seeing drunken idiots harrassing passers-by, but again, why punish the whole? These are debatable points, and as I said, I personally agree with the bans, but they wouldn't affect me either way.

As for bike helmets, seatbelts and others, these are basic safety issues. Most people who don't wear helmets and suffer head trauma become a drain on the health system. Easier and cheaper just to legislate that you should wear a helmet. And does it really make that big a difference?

Overall, the whole focus on loss of individual freedoms since 9/11 has been huge. But really, what can't you do today, that you could do on September 10, 2001, or any other time before that?

Originally posted by justsomeaussie
Ok, I'm not entirely sure why you are asking DSTO or CSIRO about aliens or even the RAAF for that matter. What simply if there weren't any aliens and you are wrong? They can't show you stuff they don't have.

I don't think that you understood my point. I'm not stating that they have UFOs/Aliens. I'm stating that if they had files on them, then we wouldn't be allowed to look at those files and the knowledge of such files would be denied to exist.

I'm a member of a local UFO organisation. I have spoken to people who have reported encounters to the RAAF over a number of years. I was assured that some reports were followed up by the RAAF in different ways, while most were ignored. I've also had other conversations with people who have had documents confiscated by government departments, that related to reporting UFOs.

Have you read the online document 'Fortress Australia'? Search for it on Google and read it. The DSTO monitor satellite transmissons, amongst other things, so we are told - we're not told about all of the covert operations that they indulge themselves in. Why aren't we told what our government agency does? We pay the tax dollars to keep them running, so we should be able to know. It's not a free country when government knowledge is kept secret from us.

Why aren't we told about what happens at Pine Gap? It's obviously on Australian soil, but we don't own it - why? Again, we're being told lies.

I don't buy the excuse of 'National Security' - it's a convenient fallback position to hide ANYTHING that they want to and run things their way.

DSTO is a science organisation hence the name, they don't monitor anything. Please check your facts before just making stuff up. Of course there are instillations in Australia that the public is not fully aware of. Same as with any country. The government has to keep things private as to not compromise the operation. Would it be fair to let every Australian (yes including the Muslims!) know that we were tracking a terrorist or some other situation? No, certain parts of of the government must remain private for those exact reasons.

Look up IGIS and ISA. The controls and measures put in place to protect Australian citizens are strong. People seem to forget that is actual human beings out there doing the job, if it were some horrible organisation set out to rule the world all it would take is one single person with ethics to bring the whole system down.

Everything can't be open, it's a simple as that.

Originally posted by justsomeaussie
Of course there are instillations in Australia that the public is not fully aware of. Same as with any country.

Secrecy from the population = loss of freedom.

The controls and measures put in place to protect Australian citizens are strong.

Population being controlled = loss of freedom.

Everything can't be open, it's a simple as that.

Acceptance of the fact, as though it is normal = loss of freedom and a denial of what freedom really should be.

Thanks for your post, it perfectly summarised all of my points. Australia is over governed, with a fair portion done secretly to keep us 'safe' from 'ourselves'... yeah, right.

It's too bad that they aren't so bold to include a 'New World Order' political party on today's ballot sheets, with NO other options to tick. At least when we vote today, we'll have many boxes to tick, giving us the illusion that we actually have a choice and that our vote really does 'matter'... yeah, right.

Ok so let me get this straight. You think that there should be no part of the government that is classified? That includes the military and intelligence organisations and other government agencies. That means than I could look up your tax information, Medicare records etc.

It also means out anyone who wants to harm Australia and find out weak points can do by simply "googling" or reading on Wikipedia what we do and how we do it? Are you saying that our operations against terrorists internal and external to Australia should be open and declared to the public?

What loss of freedoms do you actually suffer? Yes you have to wear a helmet, you have to wear a seatbelt. We won't let you have automatic rifles. The police can arrest you if they have suspicion that you have committed a crime. When has it actually effected you? Tell me what freedoms?

All countries are governed in secret, so long as the people remain ignorant of the power of the international banking cartel.

Originally posted by justsomeaussie
Ok so let me get this straight. You think that there should be no part of the government that is classified? That includes the military and intelligence organisations and other government agencies. That means than I could look up your tax information, Medicare records etc.

I'm not sure you understand the distinction between public records and private records. Private records, relating to particular citizens such as tax returns, etc, are not for the public domain. Public records relating to ALL aspects of government should be to and for the public, not hidden.

It's rather an academic argument anyway, as I personally despise being governed in any form and I can't believe how billions of people on this planet WANT to be governed. Look at the hysteria on TV right now - all the sheep cheering for Rudd. Who the hell WANTS to be governed? Not me! Look at the sheep cheering for Howard on his way out - it's sickening.

The military? I don't believe Australia should have a military. The fact that we have soldiers and that they are deployed on foreign soil in offensive acts, means that we propogate violence. If no countries had soldiers, no countries would have armys and no countries could start wars or continue them.

If we had an armed population, then we could not be invaded by anyone. Imagine an urban militia force of around ten million people who are all prepared to fight guerilla warfare on their home soil, defending their homes? It's a far more effective defence against invasion than paid soldiers and an unarmed population. Then again, why would we need to defend ourselves, if no army exists to attack us? Humans are disgusting, violent creatures when they band together to make laws and take part in tribal pissing contests.

Finally, don't even try and play the 'terrorist' card with me. Honestly, the whole false-flag terrorist propaganda was only created to help put in place the control measures that you seem to accept and justify. No amount of laws, control or military might will ever stop small, independent terrorist cells from operating. Terrorists don't take our civil liberties from us, the government does, in (planned) knee-jerk reactions to the supposed actions of terrorists. Search YouTube and watch 911 Coincidences and maybe you'll think a little differently after watching all 17 parts. The most effective terrorists are the people you elect.

You appear happy to be controlled - I'm not.

Rudd just got elected. He'll be kissing Mrs. Clinton's butt in a year's time. He already knows that she will win, as she was his hot tip when Rove asked him the other night on TV. Another new government that will strip away our rights as much as they can. Puppets dancing on strings - where's my scissors?

Well [SNIP] off the internet then and go live in a forest somewhere. The internet you are using right now was put in place by the government. The fact that you can use it and aren't not speaking Japanese was by the military. You like to live in the western world yet you bag it all the time. I have no dramas with people who don't like the government and who choose not to be a part but just by being on here, you are being a part.

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[edit on 24/11/07 by masqua]

Just a note here that transparency in Government was a key point in the final days of the Rudd campaign, and some of the details expounded such as expediting FOI requests and detailed press briefings after cabinet meetings even raised my jaded eyebrows.

Originally posted by justsomeaussie
The fact that you can use it (the internet) and aren't not speaking Japanese was by the military.

You further verify my points with each post that you type.

The fact that the Japanese had soldiers who participated in an offensive campaign proves that governments are evil and controlling. If Japan did not have an army, then we would not have been under any threat at all.

I feel no sorrow at all for any Australian soldiers killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. They chose to be paid as soldiers (trained murderers) and they knew the risks. What I can't understand is why some of them willingly wanted to leave young families to do the bidding of Bush and pay with their lives? It's insane to think that they are 'happy' and doing what the 'love' being overseas fighting in a war!

They're NOT fighting for our freedom. They're fighting because they want to and because Bush and Howard sent them there as pawns to control the supply of opium and oil. Sickening. Screw the military and the government.

The only flaw in your argument is that human beings will always fight and have wars. Countries need militaries at the most basic level to protect themselves. As I said in the previous post, if the Allies didn't have a military Germany would of taken over half of the world and the Japanese a fair chunk of the other. So yeah if you are a bitch and don't to defend your country then fair enough. But as I said earlier, stop using everything that people have fought for and go live in the forest.