Australia to build HAARP facility.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Russian Scientist,

Thankyou for your comments and if I may, I shall attempt to answer some of your concerns.

Microwave Mind Control Systems and Published Evidence

The following report from Cheryl Welsh provides a listing of some of the reported symptoms of electronic microwave mind control technologies, published evidence of their existence, and demonstrated military interest and/or funding for these technologies.

These energies can be beamed to large populations from aircraft, helicopters, satellites, and land-based microwave towers, which have proliferated worldwide at an explosive rate in the past two years.

March, 2003

Reported Symptoms

1. Microwave hearing
2. Transmission of specific commands into the subconscious
3. Visual disturbances, visual hallucinations
4. Inject words, numbers into brain via electromagnetic radiation waves
5. Manipulation of emotions
6. Reading thoughts remotely
7. Causing pain to any nerve of the body.
8. Remote manipulation of human behavior from space
9. Harassment, stress symptoms such as helicopters flying overhead
10. Seeing, as in a camera, through your eyes, i.e. to see what you see exactly
11. Control of sleep patterns.
12. Computer-brain interface, control and communication
13. Complex control of the brain such as retrieving memories, implanting personalities

The aforementioned link goes through each symptom in detail with evidence to backup the fact that these symptoms do exist with medically published trials and test to verify the facts. Please have a look.

Latest Info on ELF towers being erected countrywide.

The following also deals with the relationship between the erection of these towers and mind control purposes being planned for the masses.

.....they found out that the little towers, by the tens of thousands, they could literally aim any energy like a gun to a single home, a given range area, and so forth. Big places run by FEMA/NORAD run it all from computers. But they can also go remote, with the proper clearance and hookup. They found out they didn't need to get the guns (that's why the push and schoolyard shootings stopped here; they no longer needed that scare op that worked so well in England, Australia, Germany, ....)

Now...how can you fire a gun or load it, if you are crawling on the ground begging for mercy? If you can imagine the worst abdominable pain there is, then you know how debiliating it is - you simply can't do anything, but lie on the ground and pray for relief [Editor's Note: this assertion has been corroborated by Al Bielek, Stewart Swerdlow, Col. Fletcher Prouty, and even Major Ed Dames. During the 1991 Gulf War, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi troops spontaneously surrendered without even attempting to fight. It was this very ELF mind control technology which had been applied and rendered them impotent... Ken Adachi].

The French pioneered this technology in the late 70s from Bell Labs. They created a device for crowd control that looks like a big baseball stadium loudspeaker. It fits into the back of a van. Then they'd open the doors, pointing the van at the crowd. I've seen the device.

It operates on a 5 cycle bass wave, elf. Made everyone drop to their knees with stomach nausea.

Your towers are the same thing, but with bi-phase polarity freqs that can induce hallucinations, nausea, herpes outbreaks (every organism has its own cellular freq) or whatever they want you to feel that day...horniness, anger, whatever.

Total Population Control

The following is a brief overview of the above link relating the ELF, GWEN towers, and HAARP inter-connection for those of you interested to read and ponder.

Earth is wrapped in a donut shaped magnetic field. Circular lines of magnetic flux continuously descend into the North Pole and emerge from the South Pole. The Ionosphere, an electromagnetic-wave conductor, 100 kilometers [62 miles] above the earth, consists of a layer of electrically charged particles acting as a shield from solar winds.

Earth Resonant Frequency
Natural waves are created which result from electrical activity in the atmosphere. They are thought to be caused by multiple lightning storms. Collectively, these waves are called 'The Schumann Resonance', with the strongest current registering at 7.8 Hz. These are quasi-standing [scalar], extremely low frequency (ELF) waves that naturally exist in the earth's electromagnetic cavity which is the space between ground and the Ionosphere. These 'earth brainwaves' are identical to the frequency spectrum of our human brainwaves.

[Frequency nomenclature: 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second, 1 Khz = 1000cps, 1 Mhz =1 million cps. Wavelength: A 1 Hertz wave has a wavelength that is 186,000 miles long, A 10 Hz wave is 18,600 miles long, etc. Radio-waves move at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second)]

HAARP
The Creator designed living beings to resonate to the11 natural Schumann Resonance frequency pulsation in order to evolve harmoniously. The Ionosphere is being manipulated by US government scientists using the Alaskan transmitter called HAARP, (High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) which sends focused radiated power to heat up sections of the Ionosphere, which bounces power down again. ELF waves produced from HAARP, when targeted on selected areas, can weather-engineer and create mood changes affecting millions of people. The intended wattage is 1,700 billion watts of power.

continued in next post --->

Geomagnetic Waves & GWEN
Sixty four elements in the ground modulate, with variation, the geomagnetic waves naturally coming from the ground. The earth's natural 'brain rhythm' above is balanced with these. These are the same minerals found in red blood corpuscles. There is a relation between the blood and geomagnetic waves. An imbalance between Schumann and geomagnetic waves disrupts these biorhythms. These natural geomagnetic waves are being replaced by artificially created low frequency (LF) ground waves coming from GWEN Towers.

GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network) transmitters placed 200 miles apart across the USA allow specific frequencies to be tailored to the geomagnetic-field strength in each area, allowing the magnetic field to be altered. They operate in the LF range, with transmissions between LF 150 and 175 KHz. They also emit waves from the upper VHF to the lower UHF range of 225 - 400 MHz. The LF signals travel by waves that hug the ground rather than radiating into the atmosphere. A GWEN station transmits in a 360 degree circle up to 300 miles, the signal dropping off sharply with distance. The entire GWEN system consists of, (depending on source of data), from 58 to an intended 300 transmitters spread across the USA, each with a tower 299-500 ft high. 300 ft copper wires in spoke-like fashion fan out from the base of the system underground, interacting with the earth, like a thin shelled conductor, radiating radio wave energy for very long distances through the ground.

The United States is bathed in this magnetic field which can rise from ground up to 500 ft, but goes down into basements, so everyone can be affected and mind-controlled. The entire artificial ground-wave spreads out over the whole of the USA like a web. It is easier to mind-control and hypnotize people who are bathed in an artificial electromagnetic-wave.

GWEN transmitters have many different functions including:

1. controlling the weather,
2. mind control,
3. behavior and mood control, and
4. sending synthetic-telepathy as infrasound to victims with US government mind-control implants.

GWEN works in conjunction with HAARP and the Russian Woodpecker transmitter, which is similar to HAARP. The Russians openly market a small version of their weather-engineering system called Elate, which can fine-tune weather patterns over a 200 mile area and have the same range as the GWEN unit. An Elate system operates at Moscow airport. The GWEN towers shoot enormous bursts of energy into the atmosphere in conjuction with HAARP. The website www.cuttingedge.org wrote an expose of how the major floods of the Mid-West USA occurred in 1993.

So you see Russian Scientist & Tom Bedlam, The Russians also have their version of HAARP technology that they say as as refered to by you, to "make it rain".

This technology is NOT only to make it rain, not only to modify the weather. Yes, it can do that, but the sinister side of the potential application of this technology must not be disputed!

It doesnt take many people in power to make the decision to turn this technology upon the masses when it suits them!

Here is a little more for those of you that might find the large linked article bit too much to read-

Human Vulnerability
Dr Andrija Puharich in the 50's/60's, found that clairvoyant's brainwaves became 8 Hz when their psychic powers were operative. He saw an Indian Yogi in 1956 controlling his brainwaves, deliberately shifting his consciousness from one level to another. Puharich trained people with bio-feedback to do this consciously, making 8 Hz waves. A healer made 8 Hz waves pass into a patient, healing their heart trouble, her brain emitting 8 Hz . One person emitting a certain frequency can make another also resonate to the same frequency. Our brains are extremely vulnerable to any technology which sends out ELF waves, because they immediately start resonating to the outside signal by a kind of tuning-fork effect. Puharich experimented discovering that

A) 7.83 Hz (earth's pulse rate) made a person feel good, producing an altered-state.
B) 10.80 Hz causes riotious behaviour and
C) 6.6 Hz causes depression.

Puharich made ELF waves change RNA and DNA, breaking hydrogen bonds to make a person have a higher vibratory rate. He wanted to go beyond the psychic 8 Hz brainwave and attract psi phenomena. James Hurtak, who once worked for Puharich, also wrote in his book The Keys of Enoch that ultra-violet caused hydrogen bonds to break and this raised the vibratory rate.

Puharich presented the mental effects of ELF waves to military leaders, but they would not believe him. He gave this information to certain dignitaries of other Western nations. The US government burned down his home in New York to shut him up and he fled to Mexico. However, the Russians discovered which ELF frequencies did what to the human brain and began zapping the US Embassy in Moscow on 4 July 1976 with electromagnetic-waves, varying the signal, including focusing on 10 Hz. (10 Hz puts people into a hypnotic state. Russians and North Koreans use this in portable mind-control machines to extract confessions. A machine was even found in an American church to help the congregation believe!) The Russian "Woodpecker" signal was traveling across the world from a transmitter near Kiev. The US Air Force identified 5 different frequencies in this compound harmonic Woodpecker signal that was sending signals through the earth and the atmosphere.

Nikola Tesla revealed in 1901 power could be transmitted through the ground using ELF waves. Nothing stops or weakens these signals. The Russians retrieved Tesla's papers when they were finally returned to Yugoslavia after his death.

The great mind of Nikola Tesla, the one true genius humanity ever had, over a hundred years ahead of his time with his ideas and patents, unfortunately, his technologies and science has been corrupted by those in power who wish to be able to control us in any possible way......why? are we such a threats to our own governments?

Heres how chemtrails & fluoride fit into the picture with these transmitters-
educate-yourself.org...

Chemtrails are being sprayed daily all over USA (and other countries too) in a white crisscross pattern. They contain diseases and chemicals which affect our state of consciousness. They can produce apathy which works in conjuction with fluoridation of the water, as well as aspartame and drugs. Fluoride disables the willpower section of the brain, impairing the left occipital lobe.

Fluoride and selenium enable people to 'hear voices'. ELF waves create disturbances in the biological processes of the body and these can be activated in the population once the diseases are introduced into the body from the chemtrails.

Some chemtrails have been analyzed and shown to be creating cleavages in spacial perceptions, blocking the interaction of various amino-acids that relate to higher-consciousness and to increase dopamine in the brain producing a listless, spaced-out state of lower reactive mind.

Basically, the goal is to fog the difference between the real and unreal and some of this could be connected with the many UFO abductions occurring en-mass. Hundreds have been witnessed laid out on tables and implanted. Intelligence agencies are in league with each other behind this disablement of the masses to such a point that they can't even fight back. In order for the perpetrators to do what they want, they need the overall 'frequency' of each victim to function at a specific rate below the threshold of awareness.

Could this be part of a greater plan with mind-control transmitters covering the whole of USA and England, cleverly disguised as cell phone towers and trees? The power from microwave towers may be turned up to such a level that people can die.

Is it so wrong to try & make people aware of the potential of these devices?

Here's is a little bit more, from the Sydney Morning Herald.........& this was back in 1983 ! Imagine how much more they have progressed?

The Sydney Morning Herald on 21 March 1983 published an article by Dr Nassim Abd El-Aziz Neweigy, Assistant Professor in the Faculty of Agriculture, Moshtohor Tukh-Kalubia, Egypt. It stated:

"Russian satellites, controlled by advanced computers, can send voices in one's own language interweaving into natural thoughts to the population of choice to form diffused artificial thought. The chemistry and electricity of the human brain can be manipulated by satellite and even suicide can be induced. Through ferocious anti-humanitarian means, the extremist groups are fabricated, the troubles and bloody disturbances are instigated by advanced tele-means via Russian satellites, in many countries in Asia, Africa, Europe and Latin America."

There are endless and endless reports of various government experiments into mind control and population control technologies and methodoligies throughout the last 50 years.

It is of the upmost importance people realise what is going on here. I am not paranoid as someone had mentioned earlier, I am concerned and if that is a crime, then so be it, for at least when the time comes, I'll probably be following the rest of you sheep and "trying" to think to myself,
"Atleast I tried".



[edit on 25/10/07 by Melbourne_Militia]

Why bother with all the trouble and not just put computer chips in us...

sorry mate seems far fetched for me..

[edit on 25-10-2007 by Inf0rm3r]

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam

Delgado's work was pretty crude, but if you are of the set that thinks "microchips" were involved, you need to do more research yourself.

As for "microwave hearing", let's see you tell me what the energy density has to be before you can perceive it. I'll wait....(crickets)

yes, plugging electrodes into brains does sound crude, but a more sophisticated approach would probably yield better results. afaics, remote controlling a bull is impressive already, isn't it?

uh, the microwave auditory effect depends on pulse energies, not so much on power output.

grouper.ieee.org... (.pdf)

The hearing
phenomenon, however, has been shown to depend on
the energy in a single pulse and not on average power
density. Guy et al. [1975] found that the threshold for
RF hearing of pulsed 2450 MHz fields was related to
an energy density of 40 mJ/cm2 per pulse, or energy
absorption per pulse of 16 mJ/g, regardless of the peak
power of the pulse or the pulse width (less than 32 ms);
calculations showed that each pulse at this energy
density would increase tissue temperature by about
5.106 8C.

to clarify, this guy seemed to believe his skull somehow kept everything out, so i thought these two details might change his tune a bit. note that i did not speculate.

Hey MM,


Have you come across anything that mentions religion with all this?


I have to wonder as I have come across a few articles which state that new age religions were created by essentially black ops. Now people into this stuff are predisposed to wanting to hear and see the other side of reality and would take any interference as a devine sign.

Most conventional religious organisations believe or are waiting for some sort of second coming.

We also have our fringe ufo cults waiting for something as well.


Not to mention all the 2012 hoohah.




Im wondering if it may all tie in somehow.

Originally posted by Bspiracy
hrm.. lemme give you a scenario and then tell me it "doesn't control the weather"

Let's say we use this HAARP technology to super heat the ionospehere and push it up 60 miles like the HAARP facility here in America has stated they have done.

What do you think the below troposphere is going to do? That's right! Rush in to fill the void! That's right this creates disturbances around that area and you've all seen what dominoes do! ..

You should go take a look at what happens between the day and night sides of the ionosphere if you think this "controls the weather" - the height changes are quite dramatic.

Do I really need to mention what kind of lightning effects could be sparked by this technology?

Perhaps you should. I can't wait to see the pseudo-science.

Oh.. and why is it LIMITED to just the ionospehere? What about the stated use for under-sea commo? Learn the tech?

The ELF transmissions are done by causing ionospheric changes...

This can 100% control the weather..

Nope.

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

Russian Scientist,

Thankyou for your comments and if I may, I shall attempt to answer some of your concerns...

I know to someone who isn't in the field that Adachi might sound plausible, at least if you don't read the nuttier parts, but educate-yourself is right down there with Weekly World News. I'm really surprised Bat Boy hasn't been documented there.

The following report from Cheryl Welsh provides a listing of some of the reported symptoms of electronic microwave mind control technologies, published evidence of their existence, and demonstrated military interest and/or funding for these technologies.

Having read some of her stuff in the past, I have a strong suspicion that she is an unmedicated paranoid schizophrenic. She most certainly is not technically literate.

Info on ELF towers being erected countrywide.

There aren't any such things as ELF towers. Look - it took the Navy about 75 miles of antenna lines just to couple enough power into a rock stratum to serve as an antenna - to get about 6 Watts of emission out of several megawatts of input power. You can't efficiently transmit a signal that is grossly disproportionate to your antenna length. And an ELF signal tends to be thousands of km long.

Since the wavelengths are so long, you can also forget "aiming them like a gun", it isn't possible, Ed Dames not withstanding.

The French pioneered this technology in the late 70s from Bell Labs. They created a device for crowd control that looks like a big baseball stadium loudspeaker. It fits into the back of a van. Then they'd open the doors, pointing the van at the crowd. I've seen the device.

It operates on a 5 cycle bass wave, elf. Made everyone drop to their knees with stomach nausea.

Here's a typical screw-up. Like so many non-technical people, Adachi et al can't distinguish between sound and radio. Here he's explicitly saying that a low frequency sound wave is a radio wave. That should clue you in that he's babbling.

He also doesn't know about the French experiment, it wasn't a "van", he didn't see it, all of that's a lie. It fit in an oversized 18 wheeler truck bed, and was powered by a small APU turbine. The interior of the trailer was fitted out to be a sort of large pennywhistle which the APU's exhaust "blew".

Your towers are the same thing, but with bi-phase polarity freqs that can induce hallucinations, nausea, herpes outbreaks (every organism has its own cellular freq) or whatever they want you to feel that day...horniness, anger, whatever.

Again, he states that radio and sound are co-identical, wrong, and tosses in the phrase "bi-phase polarity freqs", a meaningless concatenation of tech-y words.

The following is a brief overview of the above link relating the ELF, GWEN towers, and HAARP inter-connection for those of you interested to read and ponder.

More gibberish I'm afraid. GWEN isn't related to HAARP at all, and it doesn't use ELF.

Earth is wrapped in a donut shaped magnetic field. Circular lines of magnetic flux continuously descend into the North Pole and emerge from the South Pole. The Ionosphere, an electromagnetic-wave conductor, 100 kilometers [62 miles] above the earth, consists of a layer of electrically charged particles acting as a shield from solar winds.

And bees smell fear, the human head weighs about 8 pounds. The usual cut and paste from a science book to lead into the rubbish.

Earth Resonant Frequency
Natural waves are created which result from electrical activity in the atmosphere. They are thought to be caused by multiple lightning storms.

This is also true...but then it starts to diverge from reality.

Collectively, these waves are called 'The Schumann Resonance', with the strongest current registering at 7.8 Hz. These are quasi-standing [scalar], extremely low frequency (ELF) waves that naturally exist in the earth's electromagnetic cavity which is the space between ground and the Ionosphere. These 'earth brainwaves' are identical to the frequency spectrum of our human brainwaves.

No. Here's the reality. The Earth-ionosphere system forms a sphere-in-sphere waveguide. The resonant frequency of that waveguide is the Schumann resonance. The waves are not the resonance. Any conductive sphere within a sphere has a resonance, it's just that the Earth is large so the wavelengths are long. There are a number of resonant peaks, and they change around from time to time. It is not a perfect resonance as the ionosphere is not really spherical on the inside and the Earth is not centered within it. This set of resonant peaks is mapped by several scientific organizations and is published in real time on the net.

They are not "scalar", there's really no such thing when it comes to EM. It's a dead-standard behavior of a wave in a waveguide.

It's not an "earth brainwave" for God's sake, any more than a ringing sound is a "bell brainwave" when you strike a bell with a hammer. And while some of the peaks are within the range of normal brainwaves, that's a meaningless correlation. So are, for example, the wingbeats of the larger hummingbirds, but you don't see them controlling your thoughts. Like confusing radio with sound, you see technically illiterate people attributing meaning to comparable frequencies, as if frequency is something that is a proper object like an electrical field. It's an attribute. It's tantamount to saying "John has brown skin, therefore, if I color this paper the same color, I can control John's skin". No. They are attributes, they can even be the same in terms of color, but one does not affect the other. That would be more in the line of "voodoo" or "thaumaturgy".

[Frequency nomenclature: 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second, 1 Khz = 1000cps, 1 Mhz =1 million cps. Wavelength: A 1 Hertz wave has a wavelength that is 186,000 miles long, A 10 Hz wave is 18,600 miles long, etc. Radio-waves move at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second)]

More "bees smell fear" material.

This bit looks like a lift from Begich's execrable book. I've got a meeting, and don't have time to do this the justice it deserves. Back this afternoon.

The problem with most theories about HAARP - especially regarding weather manipulation - is that they all rely on the ionosphere being something completely different to what it actually is, and, more importantly, on everyone not knowing a thing about the ionosphere.....

In this case, I think wikipedia is as good a place to start as any : en.wikipedia.org...

As Tom say, it varies considerably in height and density according to time of day and time of year ..... a simple fact which in itself effectively debunks most of the nonsense spouted about HAARP. It's also rather a long way from the troposphere where our weather takes place.

regarding weather manipulation, focusing on HAARP (don't fall for acronyms, they aren't any more important than normal words) is counter-productive. if your guess is wrong (it probably is) you'll be nailed down and relegated to nut/fringe territory.

we can't really know how it's done if something is done, imho, so i'll simply present an animated .gif of an anomaly:




from www.abovetopsecret.com...

the best conventional explanation would be it's simply a fake. otoh, there should be more than one record of hurricane 'ophelia'

Ok, back. Where was I?

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

HAARP
The Creator designed living beings to resonate to the11 natural Schumann Resonance frequency pulsation in order to evolve harmoniously. The Ionosphere is being manipulated by US government scientists using the Alaskan transmitter called HAARP, (High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) which sends focused radiated power to heat up sections of the Ionosphere, which bounces power down again. ELF waves produced from HAARP, when targeted on selected areas, can weather-engineer and create mood changes affecting millions of people. The intended wattage is 1,700 billion watts of power.

Ok - passing by the invocation of a Creator and evolution in one sentence, you don't "resonate" to the Schumann resonance any more than you "resonate" to the 3 degree background radiation of the universe. The amplitude of the natural ELF in the Earth-ionosphere waveguide is so small that its E and H components are several orders of magnitude less than the Earth's natural electric and magnetic fields. It's not that simple to pick up even if you wanted to - and that's with the correct instruments. You, not being particularly high in permittivity nor large in size, do not interact well with ELF - you're an exceptionally poor antenna due to being small. So even the exceedingly tiny bit of ELF there is in the Schumann resonance signal fails to couple well to you - you lose nearly all of THAT. In the end, there's not a femtowatt of it that couples to you.

Now - the next sentence is almost correct - at least at first. It is an ionospheric heater, that's one of the main uses. There are many other ionospheric heaters, HAARP isn't the first or the largest. You just don't hear about the other ones for some reason. At any rate, it does heat the ionosphere, but the bounce part isn't quite right. Some of it does reflect, but they'd much rather have all of it interact.

The next sentence is pure malarkey. HAARP doesn't radiate ELF at all. It's an HF rig, and operates more or less in the 2.5 to 10MHz band. That ain't ELF by a long shot. The way in which it gets the ionosphere to produce ELF is sort of indirect, basically they wobble the auroral electrojet sort of the way you use the wiggler magnets in a FEL, the oscillations of the electrojet interact with the magnetic field of the Earth which is in a nice useful dip angle there, and that produces the ELF signal. That doesn't make a huge berzerk amount of ELF but it does make some.

And then on to the final bit, again they're acting like you can focus ELF. You can't really focus an emission to less than 1/2 the wavelength of the signal, and even then only with great pain. HAARP doesn't even make the ELF signal directly, the electrojet sprays it everywhere with no attempt at directionality, nor is there a way to devise any. But even if you had a parabolic reflector 10 times the size of Earth (it would take one) you couldn't get an ELF signal focused to less than 1/2 the wavelength. At 7.8 Hz, that's 63 million feet in diameter. Not much of a focus, I'm afraid. It doesn't lend itself to "targeting" anything.

Geomagnetic Waves & GWEN
Sixty four elements in the ground modulate, with variation, the geomagnetic waves naturally coming from the ground. The earth's natural 'brain rhythm' above is balanced with these. These are the same minerals found in red blood corpuscles. There is a relation between the blood and geomagnetic waves. An imbalance between Schumann and geomagnetic waves disrupts these biorhythms. These natural geomagnetic waves are being replaced by artificially created low frequency (LF) ground waves coming from GWEN Towers.

Good Lord, what crap. I assume they're still prattling on about HAARP at the start. No. Modulation has a meaning already, and they're not using one of them. HAARP doesn't modulate squat to do with geomagnetic waves. It's a shortwave transmitter. And once more with the mystic "brain wave" junk - I'm sorry, but I find it tough to feel all religious over a bell tone. Dong! oo, master I'm bowing! Then you have this non-sequitur mineral statement. I'm not quite sure how that fits the other sentences - WHAT are the same minerals? Are they saying a magnetic field is a mineral? And a mineral is a rhythm? Anyway, none of this part is even lucid much less correct.

The only thing that I can get out of it is a desperate attempt to link GWEN to HAARP by means of "minerals" and "geomagnetic waves" I guess. This is insane. Let's get the GWEN thing addressed.

A ground wave hasn't anything to do with minerals or geomagnetism. When you transmit a signal, depending on how you set up the antenna and the frequencies you're using, you emit part of it as a "ground wave" and part as a "sky wave". The ground wave part propagates along the ground and follows its curvature. The sky wave part radiates up and reflects off of the ionosphere. Think of it like a photoflash. Part of the light reaches the subject directly - that's the groundwave, and part by bouncing off the roof and walls, that's the skywave. Simple.

Your AM radio works that way. If you've ever tried to listen to Coast to Coast while driving long distances through empty terrain, you'll have noted that as you pass the AM station, you will receive the signal strongly. Then as you drive away from it, it will drop slowly over time in strength. At one point, it will fade, then begin a cycle of growing stronger, then weaker, for quite a while before it fades away. The first behavior was you receiving the ground wave of the AM station. the 500kHz-1600kHz band that US AM stations use is known for good ground wave propagation. The cyclic fading behavior was the area where the sky wave and ground wave interact, producing nulls and maximae. Farther away,and you'll get just sky wave bounces. This is the way you might sometimes receive an AM station from Detroit or LA for a few minutes with great clarity only to have it fade away forever - the signal reached you by bouncing off of the ionosphere. Interestingly enough, if you know the distance from the transmitter and the frequency, you can use the beginning of the cyclic area as part of an equation that will tell you about how high the ionosphere is over your location.

Groundwave propagation does not depend on ionospheric bounce, AKA skywave. Very high frequency signals like those from your cell phone do not travel by ground wave, they are strictly line of sight, and pass through the ionosphere so they don't have skywave parts either. This limits their distance - no matter how high powered the transmitter, they are limited to line of sight. Since they penetrate the ionosphere, you use frequencies over 30 MHz to reach satellites and other space assets.

HF transmitter rigs such as shortwave radio may have a limited groundwave part, but generally use skywave. They're low enough frequency that the ionosphere reflects them, but generally not low enough in frequency to travel along the ground efficiently. The skywave behavior lets you use them to communicate over distances.

The bad part is this - you have very high frequency comm links for line of sight, and for sats. You have HF for longer comms. In the event of a nuclear war, if one or more nukes are set off in or above the ionosphere, two things will happen that relate to this. One, the ionosphere will be greatly enhanced. It will be much more active, thicker, and lower to the ground. This will make it reflective to VHF. Two, it will become disturbed, oscillating up and down in unpredictable ways.

This is bad in two ways - you can no longer reach satellites for comm relay, and you can't use HF rigs to communicate over medium or long distances because the skywave component will be useless due to disturbance in the ionosphere.

That leaves only groundwave communications. If you want to maintain strategic communications over a distance, you'll need a groundwave rig. GWEN is a network of ground wave relay stations whose purpose is to maintain communications in the event of an ionospheric burst. The VHF links of a GWEN station are to communicate by line of sight to handheld or mobile radio terminals. The station then passes the comm traffic along using the LF groundwave link to its destination, since the skywave and satellite links will be down for some time.

That's all GWEN is. It doesn't have a thing to do with geomagnetic anything. The people that wrote that junk don't know as much as you do now.

The rest of the GWEN part is such crap it's not worth addressing separately, but I thought I'd hit this:

GWEN transmitters have many different functions including:

4. sending synthetic-telepathy as infrasound to victims with US government mind-control implants.

Again, these people can't distinguish sound from radio. Note how they've prattled on for a while about how it's this or that frequency radio, now they're saying it's infrasound. Sound is not radio, they're not related. But they keep making this stupid mistake. By the way, it's not possible to modulate a signal faster than half the frequency, and if you want it reasonably noise-free, about 1/10. If you were sending "synthetic telepathy", whatever schizophrenia induced delusion THAT might be, you'd be sending excruciatingly slow Morse code to the "mind control implant", as you couldn't modulate infrasound faster than about once per second.

The Russians openly market a small version of their weather-engineering system called Elate, which can fine-tune weather patterns over a 200 mile area and have the same range as the GWEN unit.

Elate, if it works at all which is questionable, uses air ionization. Not radio.

So you see Russian Scientist & Tom Bedlam, The Russians also have their version of HAARP technology that they say as as refered to by you, to "make it rain".

Not at all. You ought to get away from Ken Adachi, Begich, et al and get some real information on radio. It's pretty interesting, and there's lots of online classes you can take. In addition, there's no end of amateur operators that would give you practical info.

Puharich made ELF waves change RNA and DNA, breaking hydrogen bonds to make a person have a higher vibratory rate.

When you see this sort of thing, you are in cuckoo-land. Puharich is a whack job. ELF, not that he could generate it, doesn't have the energy to break hydrogen bonds. And when you see someone babbling about someone's "vibratory rate" you are into one of those science-free zones where they're using new-agey theosophic definitions. You don't have a "vibratory rate", that's all 'woo-woo' junk. Although you could probably tell by their invocation of psychics as diagnostic instruments.

However, the Russians discovered which ELF frequencies did what to the human brain and began zapping the US Embassy in Moscow on 4 July 1976 with electromagnetic-waves, varying the signal, including focusing on 10 Hz. (10 Hz puts people into a hypnotic state. Russians and North Koreans use this in portable mind-control machines to extract confessions. A machine was even found in an American church to help the congregation believe!)

A mix of fantasy and prevarication here. The Russians DID bombard the embassy with radio waves, but not ELF by a long long long shot. One, ELF can't be generated easily and is not directional. But then these guys can't distinguish it from sound, so you should get the idea immediately they're lunatics.

The Russians actually used microwaves, and they were at particular frequencies, but the reason they did so was that they had planted a number of harmonic bugs in the embassy. That's a very interesting subject which I could expound on but it isn't all that related to the thread. At any rate, this type of bug relies on an external signal to make it work, and the microwave bombardment was to drive the various bugs they had planted.

Nikola Tesla revealed in 1901 power could be transmitted through the ground using ELF waves. Nothing stops or weakens these signals. The Russians retrieved Tesla's papers when they were finally returned to Yugoslavia after his death.

An ELF wave is just radio. Anything that will weaken or "stop" a radio wave will work the same way on ELF. The reason you use ELF to transmit to submarines is that the lower the frequency, the less the path loss for a dissipative medium. But that's Maxwell, not Tesla. And Tesla's transmitter emits a broadband output, lots of HF in there.

Originally posted by Long Lance
yes, plugging electrodes into brains does sound crude, but a more sophisticated approach would probably yield better results. afaics, remote controlling a bull is impressive already, isn't it?

Not so much. The concept "remote controlling" sort of leaves you with the idea that you can run them around like an RC airplane. What Delgado did was to drop an electrode into what was apparently a pleasure center of the bull. He could abort an attack by giving the bull a woody. I'm not sure if it's good or bad to have the bull mad at me or thinking I'm a cow.

That's sort of impressive, I guess. You could get the same effect by strapping a red taser on the bull and shocking him down to the ground when he charged.

uh, the microwave auditory effect depends on pulse energies, not so much on power output.

Exactly, which is why I said:

As for "microwave hearing", let's see you tell me what the energy density has to be before you can perceive it. I'll wait....(crickets)


...the threshold for
RF hearing of pulsed 2450 MHz fields was related to
an energy density of 40 mJ/cm2 per pulse, or energy
absorption per pulse of 16 mJ/g, regardless of the peak
power of the pulse or the pulse width (less than 32 ms);
calculations showed that each pulse at this energy
density would increase tissue temperature by about...

to clarify, this guy seemed to believe his skull somehow kept everything out, so i thought these two details might change his tune a bit. note that i did not speculate.

You did really well to find the Guy paper, I congratulate you. Now, let's think about the implications in that abstract. 40mJ/cm2 is really high for a human exposure. That's a lot of energy to be aiming at your face. Much more than I'd want aimed at me. Now the average power is not that high, although there are other threshold effects for shorter pulse widths and average power that this article doesn't mention. The pulse power is higher by far than what the military will allow you to be exposed to outside an experimental situation.

How does this seem to work? Well, you'll notice that in your reference to Guy, that they had that apparently inexplicable bit at the end "would increase tissue temperature". The reason that is in there is that what you're hearing is the expansion of tissue due to thermal effects. The microwaves are heating bits of your middle ear and making a barely audible "click". If you modulate these, you can make a sort of buzzy interpretable sound. But eventually your head gets hot, the tissues swell etc. It's not as insidious as an LRAD if you're in a really good place for one to be used. The 2.45 GHz frequency they chose is the one you use to heat water.

Next, you really do lose a huge amount of signal strength to path loss at that frequency. The skull, scalp and CSF eat it right up. The microwave hearing phenomenon depends on it penetrating your pinnae and eardrum, mostly, instead of going through your skull and stimulating your nerves in some way.

edit: it eventually gives you cataracts, too



[edit on 25-10-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Tom Bedlam, you are INCREDIBLE!!!!!

Your scientific and technical knowledge is vast and broad.

I think you have helped many people understand the truth and reality of this thread. But.... to tell you the truth, I'm truly impressed with your knowledge, it's awesome!!!!!!

Whatever their paying you at your job; IT ISN"T ENOUGH!!!!

I'm still in shock from all that I just read, that you wrote. You really know your stuff!!!!!!

reply to post by RussianScientists


We're into my main job area - that's all. I do a lot of other stuff but comm and radar design in military applications is probably my core competency.

I'm not totally unfamiliar with the HIPAS and HAARP projects, either. Big chunks of the functions you've heard about and some you haven't (the real ones anyways) are being/have been moved to satellites, it's generally easier to do what you need to in orbit than on the ground, and the ELF part of HAARP isn't active much anymore now that the sub fleet's changing over to something else.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam

There are many other ionospheric heaters, HAARP isn't the first or the largest

Here's a few of the others you mentioned.

Arecibo

Jicamarca

EISCAT

Nancay


Here's a site I have come across a couple of times searching for stuff. It's a Swedish lab. It's full of information on these other sites.

www.physics.irfu.se...

reply to post by GAOTU789


Righty-o! EISCAT, HIPAS, and Arecibo are the ones that come to mind immediately. There used to be one at Siple Station, very small, IIRC.

There used to be a really nice diagram showing the freq ranges and powers of all the commonly known ionospheric heaters but I have lost the link. I might rummage around and see if I can find it.

edit: Oh, yeah, at least one STS has carried an ionospheric heater experiment package as well as an electron cyclotron resonance test rig - it was a concept demonstrator and feasibility study that led to the satellite implementation of some of the HAARP functions.

[edit on 25-10-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

My thanks to MM for bringing this to light, and thanks to Tom for some very educational posts, I got a lot from that.

Tom, I was wondering if you could clarify your stance on a couple of points.

Does EM radiation effect the brain? hallucinations, voices etc... I was under the impression this was so. It's been used to explain things such as hauntings, alien abductions and the like. I've seen experiments covered in some documentaries that would seem to verify this.

Do sound waves effect the brain? I got the impression, you don't think this is so. I would have to disagree with that one if that is the case.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by DaRAGE
As far as i'm concerned. Get a HAARP in Australia. The faster the better. And then regulate the weather for all i care.

We should all get microchips to regulate the criminals too...

Originally posted by squiz
Does EM radiation effect the brain? hallucinations, voices etc... I was under the impression this was so. It's been used to explain things such as hauntings, alien abductions and the like. I've seen experiments covered in some documentaries that would seem to verify this.

The experiments you're likely referring to involve application of fairly strong time-varying magnetic fields in close proximity to the head - I think the apparatus looks like a football helmet with a wrist-thick cable coming out of it. At that, it doesn't allow for "synthetic telepathy" - it's more like a general impression of "someone's behind me" with a few of the more susceptible reporting "aliens", which may be nothing more than triggering of an image that embodies their general feelings of fear. The fields induce micro-currents in the conductive brain tissue. But these fields are many many orders of magnitude higher than any radio broadcast could induce - the energy density of an H-field in that configuration falls off as the sixth power of the distance.

Do sound waves effect the brain? I got the impression, you don't think this is so. I would have to disagree with that one if that is the case.

Thanks in advance.

I know there's some work, by Sony if I recall, with ultrasonic stimulation of brain tissue. Again, it's done with transducers in direct contact with the skin that are outputting a good bit of power and are firing the neurons by mechanical stimulation. You might ask yourself the last time you hallucinated at a rock concert or on a flight line with a jet turbine running nearby due to sound in general.

I don't doubt that you could affect the brain with enough sound, but it would either take an apparatus in direct contact with the head or most likely near lethal SPL's in free air.

edit: I'm assuming by the way you phrased the question we're not talking about broadcasting the sounds of hornets or babies screaming in order to make people leave an area.

[edit on 26-10-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

reply to post by Tom Bedlam


yep, that was the Em experiment I was thinking of. That makes sense, thanks. But I've also heard of this effect in relation to everything from high voltage power lines to old granite castles and even earthquakes.
I not entirely convinced that ELF waves cannot effect us, perhaps even on a biological level, I think we are better defined as biological electric machines with the brain as the receiver.
The ionosphere may have played a bigger part in evolution and life. Just a theory of course, based on the life like properties of plasma.

I was thinking that a low ELF wave could carry a HF wave, a pulsing Hf wave, as in your stadium example for instance. How difficult are they to detect? couldn't a elf wave be hidden in a hf wave?

Actually after reading some more about neurological effects. I'm actually a little more concerned, than I was before. I find goggle scholar to be help with this sort of subject. I try to find legitimate sources.
Some say elf effects are inconclusive and needs more research, some claim neurological effects and cellular dysfunction and of course at places like the dept of energy etc... claim no side effects as you would expect. The truth is blurry.
It may be a leap to claim it can alter brain frequencies and thus mood keeping us from achieving higher mental states . But it may not be such a leap to call it potentially unhealthy or maybe irresponsible.

I referenced sound, because I have experimented with it, mainly using simple signal generators and meditation. You can put yourself into a theta pattern, you can get to the edge of sleep so to speak, dream but be aware.

Here's a good layman's guide to brain frequencies and there effects, we experience most of them every day. From when we wake up to deep sleep.
With some practice you can induce them.
www.neurodevelopment.com...

Thanx.


[edit on 26-10-2007 by squiz]