Why sleeper?

I should stay away from this thread. essedarius stop me!!

I jumped into that sleeper thread in the early days and soon discovered that i wasnt welcome, nor were others that wanted to question his motives. Oh well, its not my board.
I do agree that it should be in Skunkworks at the very least.
It has proved one thing to me though, there is no shortage of gullible people in this world. Sad but true.

mojo

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Wanna know what is absolutely HILARIOUS?

Observe50 had a thread very similar to Sleepers. It was immediately moved to skunkworks. I wonder why?

I am willing to get banned (say a trade), to move Sleepers "I am telling lies about Extra Terrestrials" thread to either A; Bit Bucket or B; Skunkworks.

Even more incredible? Sonic's, thread gets moved from alien/ufo to general chit chat? Now that my friend is embracing ignorance.

Time for me to move on, this is too much. Big Brother is lurking. Conspiracy? You bet. Inside action too.

Originally posted by Stockburn
Wanna know what is absolutely HILARIOUS?

Observe50 had a thread very similar to Sleepers. It was immediately moved to skunkworks. I wonder why?

I am willing to get banned (say a trade), to move Sleepers "I am telling lies about Extra Terrestrials" thread to either A; Bit Bucket or B; Skunkworks.

Even more incredible? Sonic's, thread gets moved from alien/ufo to general chit chat? Now that my friend is embracing ignorance.

Time for me to move on, this is too much. Big Brother is lurking. Conspiracy? You bet. Inside action too.

Well, what am I supposed to do, yanno? If the ATS higher staff believes that sleeper's topic should stay in the "Aliens and UFO's" forum, it is their decision. They can use their power in whatever way they please.

Originally posted by surf911
By the way there is a difference between "there" "they're" and "their" Constantly using "there" just shows that your uneducated and ignorant.

You seem to forget not only americans visit this forum, people from other parts of the world that do not master the englisch/american language are also on these boards.When they make a few spelling errors it doesent necessarely mean they are uneducated.From your replies i can only conclude it is you that is ignorant and uneducated.

reply to post by SonicInfinity

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
The logic of it all escapes me. What is so special about sleeper?

Sleeper is in my opinion a genuine person, of who I think, has experienced an abduction or more likely, more then one, as many others have experienced also, but of a much higher level so to speak.

What I find so special about him are the following points,

1. Of course his amazing experience in, “A day with an Extraterrestrial”

2. His very interesting ongoing tread, “I’m coming clean on Extraterrestrials”

3. In my opinion, his exceptional knowledge of the Extraterrestrial matter and other things also.

4. His remarkable answers, of which I find many very interesting, and now and then flavoured with a bit of great humour.

5. His relentless afford, and enormous energy, to again and again answering all those questions asked, from 13/1/07 until now.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
If he is truly being visited by beings from outside this world, why would they allow him to speak his mind?

Sleeper is absolute not the only one who speak his mind about the reality of beings and things from outside this world, and in my opinion, they are allowed to do it, because it’s a part of the ongoing disclosure of the Extraterrestrial reality.

To trying to open the eyes of those who despite all the available evidence still can/will not believe the Extraterrestrial reality.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
He offers no proof whatsoever of his claims. He offers no visuals, no specific data, and no real reason to believe in what he has to say.

There are many people who offers it all, but despite that, they are also not believed either.
Even worse, they are deceived, ridiculed, and laughed at, etc.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
To the people who believe that what sleeper says is the truth, why do you believe? Is your belief logical? If so, what is your logic? If not, what makes your belief any different from any other illogical belief?

Well, you know by now that I think that what Sleeper says is absolute possible.
If I can proof that he had really that experience, I can not.
But even when he didn’t had that experience, it is a magnificent story.

My logic is.
Many things of where Sleeper speaks are supported and also claimed by many other people.
So if I combined this four things together, what Sleeper says, what many others says, the mountain of available evidence, and what I personally know of the Extraterrestrial reality.
I am convinced that its highly possible that he is telling the truth.



[edit on 19/10/07 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 19/10/07 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by TrappedSoul
I would like to see a picture of this Sleeper guy, haha. I bet he is just a fat computer-geek without any friends. Yeah, I'm being rude now, but spreading bull# like he does is rude too.

He is absolute not fat, so you are indeed spreading bull#.

Originally posted by Lady-X
Book? What is the name of this book? How can sleeper sale a book if nobody even knows what it is?

The name of his book is, “In League with a UFO”

reply to post by malakiem


Who said I believed Sleeper??? I was stating who the El are you to rip on sleeper , If you havent even broke the 10 thousand points barrier. I have given much input to ATS, or I would not have even stepped up to the plate bro. I said what I said and I won't back down from it. Like I care what you or anyone thinks.I say what I say ,you say what you say.Thats called freedom of speech.

Originally posted by dntwastetime
Who said I believed Sleeper??? I was stating who the El are you to rip on sleeper , If you havent even broke the 10 thousand points barrier. I have given much input to ATS, or I would not have even stepped up to the plate bro. I said what I said and I won't back down from it. Like I care what you or anyone thinks.I say what I say ,you say what you say.Thats called freedom of speech.

No, you gave up your freedom of speech the second you agreed to abide by the rules of ATS. Maybe out in the real world you can say whatever you desire, but on here, you have to follow certain guidelines or else you will be warned or even banned.

As far as your little "10,000" points argument, I could have over 100,000 points by now if I was really trying. I know all about the points system here on ATS, and I can easily get about 5,000 points per day if I wanted. I just have better things to do with my life than sit on a message board forum and earn points all day.

Originally posted by johnlear
So schuyler, your statement “Once you realize that's where you are, in the supermarket checkout line drawn to lurid tabloid headlines that have about as much connection to reality as Michael Jackson or Tom Cruise, then the silliness and contradictory nature of the site is easier to take” is sadly lacking in background, foundation and accuracy. Again.

John, that you are holding up the National Enquirer as a paragon of thoughful journalism is somehow in keeping with your other thoughts and ideas, and entirely appropriate, in my opinion. In other words, I'm not at all surprised that that is the company you keep and the focus of your current reading material. I'm sure your fervent defense of the Enquirer will further advance your reputation as a logical and critical thinker. In my opinion, however, you are twisting in the wind on this one. Thank you so much for sharing the basis of your intellectual acumen with us. It is most appreciated.

Originally posted by onbekend59
You seem to forget not only americans visit this forum, people from other parts of the world that do not master the englisch/american language are also on these boards.When they make a few spelling errors it doesent necessarely mean they are uneducated.From your replies i can only conclude it is you that is ignorant and uneducated.

You know, you are absolutely right and I, for one, will always give an automatic pass to anyone on these forums who is not a native-English speaker and makes a few minor errors that do not matter. Many of you write better English than a native. I suggest everyone else do the same and be very careful before you criticize grammar and spelling. It's easy to make mistakes when replying rapidly to posts. I do it all the time.

But I think you are taking this out of context and reacting to one sentence by surf. He had just been called an "idiott" by someone else in a post that's ripe for a red flag warning. He was just defending himself. Allow him to do that without taking it personally. The guy attacking him was betraying his own idiocy in his post and surf was just pointing it out. By the way, I don't know surf or his normal posts so I have no reason to defend him beyond what I see in the posts here.

To all, I think this thread is degenerating. Can we step it up a notch? Is there any more to be said?

reply to post by Stockburn


Read your own writing and you'll see why it was moved. I'll give you a hint, "Very similar to sleeper's".

sleeper's thread has taken on a life of its own ALL BY ITSELF, with ZERO assist from staff. Thousands of people enjoy reading it, it's pretty simple if you take emotions out of the mix and realise this is a discusison board, people enjoy discussing that stuff with sleeper.

We choose to leave it in Aliens and UFOs because we like it there, thousands of visitors and members like it there, it started there and grew huge before we even noticed it was "catching fire", there is absolutely no reason to move it. That's the best part about paying the bills and doing the work, you get to make the rules, and you get to bend them when it makes sense to.

S...

Originally posted by schuyler

John, that you are holding up the National Enquirer as a paragon of thoughful journalism is somehow in keeping with your other thoughts and ideas, and entirely appropriate, in my opinion. In other words, I'm not at all surprised that that is the company you keep and the focus of your current reading material. I'm sure your fervent defense of the Enquirer will further advance your reputation as a logical and critical thinker. In my opinion, however, you are twisting in the wind on this one.

Now hold on just a minute there schuyler, I also read Doonsebury. And every morning I might add. And not only that but I 'get it' most of the time! Doesn't that count for anything?

Are we all finished yet?

I for one think that Springer was being generous by moving this thread to the chit chat forum. Seems like it should be in the rant forum to me!

But, then again, I have oh so few points and my opinion doesn't count!

I am also lacking in grammar and spelling a lot of the time.

Who cares!

As I said earlier, people enjoy hearing what Sleeper has to say because he is very human about it, and not technical. People can relate. Plain and simple or at least it is for me.:bash:

Originally posted by Springer


That's the best part about paying the bills and doing the work, you get to make the rules, and you get to bend them when it makes sense to.

S...

Spoken like a true amigo
All I can say as a member is, if you don't like the ATS rules and want it your way. " Build your own site, manage it with your attitudes and see how far it gets".

I have some truth for those of you who seem to need it so badly that you will go above and beyond to insult another member of this forum.

This thread ("Why sleeper?") was started to gain points and attention.

It's as simple as that. Any thread lately with "sleeper" in the title is apt to gather a great deal of replies and, in turn, points for the OP.


Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't believe sleeper's story for a second. However, he has every right in the world to post ANYTHING he wants as long as it adheres to the T&C of the site.

What is more interesting to me, however, is WHY so many of you would stay around a site that you liken to the "garbage" of the National Enquirer?

Some of you guys CONSTANTLY criticize ATS and the subject matter it contains. It seems that you can find no "right" in anything done here that doesn't adhere to what you consider "normal".

WHY DO YOU STAY?


I know that I wouldn't last a second in a forum I looked at with such LOW regard. If I found a site that I was a member of to consist of 90% trash, I would be out of there in a heartbeat.

Yet, you continue to log in day after day after day.

WHY?

Do you get some sick pleasure from berating others? Or are you simply so incapable of thought that you feel the need to bash people that ARE capable?

What is your purpose here?


The ATS motto is "Deny Ignorance", yet, that's all some of you seem to be able to embrace.


Is it ignorant to disagree with something you find silly? Hell no it's not! But, it IS ignorant to CONTINUALLY berate others' beliefs and opinions while offering no sort of SUBSTANTIAL cause for your criticisms.


90% of you people can do nothing more than call someone "stupid" or "liars" for what they say. Yet, I have YET to see you PROVE, EVEN ONE TIME, that those people you criticize are, in fact, stupid or lying.


Naturally, there ARE people that jump on the site and make claims that are very similar to sleeper's and then jump back off, never to be heard from again. However, sleeper has not done that. He has stuck to his story since day one and NONE of you have proven him a liar yet.

I'm willing to bet that 9 times out of 10, those people that jump here and make outrageous claims and then disappear are actually just one of you guys, under a different name, who are trying to undermine the intelligence of the people that DO actually care about the things this site stands for.

I can see you guys right now, sitting there behind your little monitor and under the cover of anonymity, typing up your little stories and saying to yourselves, "HAHAH this'll get those morons!!"

They have a name for you people and it is "TROLLS".

You have nothing to contribute to the site but negativity and an incredible resistance to open mindedness. So, why do you stay? Does it give you so much pleasure to read things you think are completely ridiculous day in and day out that you simply cannot resist logging on everyday?


You guys remind me of that football star in highschool who beat the hell out of the dorks and nerds daily, only to find himself working for those dorks and nerds when he was 30 and bald.



Are there lies posted as truths on ATS? Yes
Are we a bit gullible at times in believing those lies? Yes

But, it is NOT because we are stupid. It is because we are OPEN MINDED and willing to give a fellow poster the benefit of the doubt until said poster gives us a LEGITIMATE reason


At the very least, some of you people should be ashamed of yourself for your undeniable ability to cuddle ignorance and hold it to yourself like a 5 year old's security blanket. At the most, perhaps you should just leave and spare us and YOURSELF the punishment of your further need to troll ATS.




As far as John Lear goes; Maybe I am wrong, but I don't recall ONE TIME he told you that you MUST accept everything he says as gospel.

I don't recall ever even witnessing him BEG you to believe him.


He puts his beliefs out there for you to read and NOTHING MORE.


Yet, some of you seem to hate him so bad that you simply cannot resist speaking about him or criticizing him personally.

I'm quite sure that is the sign of some psychological problems.


Perhaps therapy would help?


Or maybe just pulling the stick out a few inchs and learning a bit about TOLERANCE and COURTESY would do the job.



Jasn

EDIT: Thread successfully tagged. I think "jealousy" fits quite nicely.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by SimiusDei]

Originally posted by SimiusDei
You guys remind me of that football star in highschool who beat the hell out of the dorks and nerds daily, only to find himself working for those dorks and nerds when he was 30 and bald.

I liked your whole post but don't like quoting something that big. But the part I will quote is perfect. I actually know a guy from my highschool who was a football star and fits that perfectly. Sweet justice.
Your whole post was denying ignorance and I'm proud to read it. Thank you SimiusDei

The amazing thing that crosses my mind is that Sleeper hasn't said a word about this thread and is denying ignorance for not falling into their trap.

reply to post by Solarskye


No, thank YOU.


I applaud sleeper for not even dignifying these people with a response.

All they are looking to do (other than gain attention and points) is draw him into an argument.

I have learned, from my time here, that when a thread starts swerving past a point that you aren't comfortable with, it's best to leave the thread alone.

It takes a bigger man to just walk away.


Jasn

Originally posted by Springer
We choose to leave it in Aliens and UFOs because we like it there, thousands of visitors and members like it there, it started there and grew huge before we even noticed it was "catching fire", there is absolutely no reason to move it. That's the best part about paying the bills and doing the work, you get to make the rules, and you get to bend them when it makes sense to.

Yeah, you're right. I keep forgetting that fundamental difference I have brought up a time or two before. I suppose sleeper's thread is not doing too much harm, and hey, if it attracts and entertains people and those people know to take it all with a grain of salt (sugar works, too), I guess the damage is minimal.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
I have some truth for those of you who seem to need it so badly that you will go above and beyond to insult another member of this forum.

This thread ("Why sleeper?") was started to gain points and attention.

It's as simple as that. Any thread lately with "sleeper" in the title is apt to gather a great deal of replies and, in turn, points for the OP.

Not the freaking points thing again. If I was seriously looking for points, I would make a topic in the "Breaking Alternative News" forum. You realize that you get 50 points per reply in a topic on there, right? You only get 1 point elsewhere, from what I understand. Like I said before, I treat most everybody the same, whether they be a hard-working citizen or a flashy celebrity. I don't care about sleeper's ATS-status -- when you're posting on an online forum, you're all the same to me when it comes to posting.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't believe sleeper's story for a second. However, he has every right in the world to post ANYTHING he wants as long as it adheres to the T&C of the site.

Or if Springer likes it.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
What is more interesting to me, however, is WHY so many of you would stay around a site that you liken to the "garbage" of the National Enquirer?

Some of you guys CONSTANTLY criticize ATS and the subject matter it contains. It seems that you can find no "right" in anything done here that doesn't adhere to what you consider "normal".

WHY DO YOU STAY?

Because ATS has provided me with more knowledge about the government behind the government that I could ever acquire by myself. This site has introduced me to other places of informational wealth, as well as provided unexplainable visuals that come pretty close to proving the subject they present. I don't criticize the material here unless I find it to be fishy or backed up with little to no proof. I've criticized sleeper's topics because it does provide no proof. I'm not on a crusade or something; I was a logical person, looking for a logical answer.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
I know that I wouldn't last a second in a forum I looked at with such LOW regard. If I found a site that I was a member of to consist of 90% trash, I would be out of there in a heartbeat.

Yet, you continue to log in day after day after day.

WHY?

False accusations. I never said I held this place in such low regard. On the contrary, this is one of the most mature sites I have seen on the Internet.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Do you get some sick pleasure from berating others? Or are you simply so incapable of thought that you feel the need to bash people that ARE capable?

What is your purpose here?

My purpose, as a disinformation agent, is to derail every individual on ATS that continues to spew truthful comments about the reality of extraterrestrial life on this planet.

That was a joke, by the way.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
The ATS motto is "Deny Ignorance", yet, that's all some of you seem to be able to embrace.

Is it ignorant to disagree with something you find silly? Hell no it's not! But, it IS ignorant to CONTINUALLY berate others' beliefs and opinions while offering no sort of SUBSTANTIAL cause for your criticisms.

Your capital letters are putting me in a constant state of fear. O_O

[Continued]

[edit on 10/20/2007 by SonicInfinity]

Originally posted by SimiusDei
90% of you people can do nothing more than call someone "stupid" or "liars" for what they say. Yet, I have YET to see you PROVE, EVEN ONE TIME, that those people you criticize are, in fact, stupid or lying.

Don't try that standard argument with me. It hasn't worked for the past 2,000 years with Atheist vs Christianity, and it won't work here.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Naturally, there ARE people that jump on the site and make claims that are very similar to sleeper's and then jump back off, never to be heard from again. However, sleeper has not done that. He has stuck to his story since day one and NONE of you have proven him a liar yet.

I'm willing to bet that 9 times out of 10, those people that jump here and make outrageous claims and then disappear are actually just one of you guys, under a different name, who are trying to undermine the intelligence of the people that DO actually care about the things this site stands for.

I can see you guys right now, sitting there behind your little monitor and under the cover of anonymity, typing up your little stories and saying to yourselves, "HAHAH this'll get those morons!!"

They have a name for you people and it is "TROLLS".

Anonymity? The ATS Admins can view any person's IP address at any time. According to my research, anonymity can only exist if you are Anonymous. If a troll ever got out of hand, the Admins could just contact that person directly if need be. I seriously hope you are not calling me a troll, because I find that to be offensive. ATS is the one place I go in hopes to get away from such behavior. It's the one place where I don't have to deal with constant fads or situational responses. It's the one place online where I can be completely logical, despite the air of conspiracy.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
You have nothing to contribute to the site but negativity and an incredible resistance to open mindedness. So, why do you stay? Does it give you so much pleasure to read things you think are completely ridiculous day in and day out that you simply cannot resist logging on everyday?

If you asked me two years ago about my beliefs and opinions, not even 25% of them would be the same as today. I am an incredibly logical and open-minded person. I try my hardest to weigh situations from an unbiased viewpoint and from multiple perspectives to come up with the most rational and conclusive solution. I am anything but resistant to close-mindedness; anything and everything are up for speculation, excluding the principle foundation.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
You guys remind me of that football star in highschool who beat the hell out of the dorks and nerds daily, only to find himself working for those dorks and nerds when he was 30 and bald.

...how is that analogy even remotely close to this situation? Why would football stars be posting on a conspiracy site, anyway?

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Are there lies posted as truths on ATS? Yes
Are we a bit gullible at times in believing those lies? Yes

Are we overreacting by posting a massive non-documentary post that takes the ATS character counter to its limit? Yes

Originally posted by SimiusDei
But, it is NOT because we are stupid. It is because we are OPEN MINDED and willing to give a fellow poster the benefit of the doubt until said poster gives us a LEGITIMATE reason

I have been tricked and misled far too many times in the past to just believe in somebody on an online message board with no solid proof. Unearned trust is not a luxury I can afford.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
At the very least, some of you people should be ashamed of yourself for your undeniable ability to cuddle ignorance and hold it to yourself like a 5 year old's security blanket. At the most, perhaps you should just leave and spare us and YOURSELF the punishment of your further need to troll ATS.

As far as John Lear goes; Maybe I am wrong, but I don't recall ONE TIME he told you that you MUST accept everything he says as gospel.

I don't recall ever even witnessing him BEG you to believe him.

He puts his beliefs out there for you to read and NOTHING MORE.

Yet, some of you seem to hate him so bad that you simply cannot resist speaking about him or criticizing him personally.

If you are talking to me, I have never criticized him personally, nor have I done so to anybody else on ATS, whether I agreed with their views or not.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
I'm quite sure that is the sign of some psychological problems.

Perhaps therapy would help?

As long as it is a Psychologist and not a Psychiatrist.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Or maybe just pulling the stick out a few inchs and learning a bit about TOLERANCE and COURTESY would do the job.

I find it ironic that you talk of tolerance and courtesy, yet you responded with such a ranting flow of volcanic anger. Even sleeper, the person in my topic title, hasn't responded like this. In fact, he said that he was "enjoying" this thread and that he was "sorry it got moved". I suggest you take that stick and make sure its measurements are correct before you accuse me of not knowing about tolerance and courtesy.

[edit on 10/20/2007 by SonicInfinity]