a very real conspiracy

Originally posted by memoir


First, what good would there be in wiping everybody out? What power is there to be had if there are no people to have power over? More to societal context; what money is to be made?

Well, you'd have to know the rest of my theories about the way the world works in order to understand my position in the statement, fully, but even a cursory perusal of the infamous speech of Dr. Pianka, should suffice. This type of mindset is not only out there, the guy was given a standing ovation by scientists and a group of students who will be the new decision makers later on. Don't ask me why anyone would find such a scenario palatable. Perhaps they view themselves as replenishing the Earth from scratch while the rest of us no good, pollution making slobs, die horrible, slow deaths via ebola virus. ?

Second - this is an honest question, no sarcasm here - Where did she make "it clear she felt the democrats were the only salvation from this situation.". I must have missed that. Can you give me a time reference in the video?

She mentions that we should turn to democracy, that democracy is what we need or rather is what this nation is all about. This is not a democracy, in the standard usage of the term. That word, however, is being used consistently by the democrats as part and parcel of their overall platform. The idea being that the average voter is too stupid to notice the difference between what type of government we are supposed to have, and what we actually have. Democracy in its purest form, is mob rule. This is not a mob rule nation or it's not supposed to be, anyway.

reply to post by undo


The list are real, there have been congressional hearings about them. They are not in the mainstream news, this should lead you back to the point she made about controlled media, they do not want us thinking about this on a surface level. But people who do question and dig a little deeper they want to know about it to get the advantage of fear.

This also follows the point of detaining and releasing many people at random to show authority has control.

Senator Kennedy on the list
query.nytimes.com...

Peace activist on the list
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/09/27/MN181034.DTL

Code Pink on the list of people not allowed to cross border into Canada
www.freemarketnews.com...

A secondary list that promotes greater screening but people are allowed to fly
news.zdnet.com...

Article on the topic
www.aclu.org...

There are many articles on the topic.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by Redge777]

I'll review said Pianka speech. Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by undo]

She mentions that we should turn to democracy, that democracy is what we need or rather is what this nation is all about.

I hardly find this a pro-democratic party statement. Her statement is one of truth regarding the democratic process - not the party - however you bend it. It may be rather idealistic and naive, but it's still true. Communism could be an amazing[ly good] system... until humans are introduced in to it... idealistic and naive - but still true.

We can either turn to violent uprising, or we can turn to 'democracy'. I don't believe we've been inconvenienced enough for violent uprising (yet). We can still use our democratic (not the party) power, granted to us by the constitution to help open the window that's being shut on us.

Though, I say, buy yourself some 'items of defense' and head for the hills. Those running the show don't give one hoot about our little conventions or protests; speed bumps.

Redge,

Some christians were already complaining about the state of the media as far back as 70s. There's an 80s christian song written on the subject called MEAT THE PRESS. The major complaint at the time was, that the only time a christian was given any press was if it was scandalous. I think alot of people feel that way. Heck, that's still going on. The public loves scandal.

Don't you ever get the feeling there's an invisible glass ceiling over the heads of most people? that one always bothered me. the unattainable goal that's supposed to be attainable but isn't.

Though, I say, buy yourself some 'items of defense' and head for the hills. Those running the show don't give one hoot about our little conventions or protests; speed bumps.

One guy told me: If people think they can challenge the police, the national guard or a standing army, they got another thing coming. If martial law is inacted, people will comply. The technology we have today will put any riot or disturbance to rest in a very big hurry. Plain and simple. (i'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it).

I recall thinking, at the time, uh, that doesn't sound too good. I don't like pain. I have enough as it is. If they're talkin' pain, I'm not going there. So riot, social disturbance, I'm in my house, door shut tight, locks bolted. Already wounded in action, thank you anyway!

And in surprisingly random conjunction:

www.washingtonpost.com......

"There is absolutely no reason our intelligence officials should have to consult government lawyers before listening into terrorist communications with the likes of Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda and other foreign terror groups," said House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio).

I'm sorry, but BULL$#%^ --- especially when the bill that this bill helps protect states that the executive branch can name any one of us a terrorist at any time and search and monitor us without any warrant. This is rubbish.


edit to correct external link

[edit on 18-10-2007 by memoir]

reply to post by undo


Your point assumes that the police and military go along with a dictatorial crack down. Education is key so if we do slide into the abyss the police and military will do as they are sworn, and protect the constitution. This is also why dictators set up private armies, as the speaker in the film mentioned, Blackwater now has Billion dollar inside the USA contract.

reply to post by Redge777


The one problem I see in this is that most cops probably can't even spell constitution. That's not a statement regarding their intelligence, rather their convictions. They'll probably do just as they're told. You'll have some percentage of turn coats, and how high that number will be is arguable (and speculative). I think their oath to protect the constitution is more or less something they have to say to get the job.

edit to elaborate: especially when following orders provides some sort of guaranteed protection for their families...

[edit on 18-10-2007 by memoir]

Any person who believes that this government is of the people, by the people, or for the people needs to get their nose out of the text book and squeegee their third #@! eye (R.I.P. Bill Hicks). If you need an example, take a look at the current system of Congress and the President and the bills that go back and forth like so many paper airplanes in a 4th grade class when the teacher has just stepped out.
-memoir

This is true, but doesn’t have to be. That’s what she means when she talks about an uprising of the people. It’s like that stupid cartoon with the talking book you watch in school, “conjunction junction” or whatever. Get up and pay attention. Pass a bill. Vote!! WE HAVE LAWS!!

Tell corporate media to shut the fock up and get out of the way, use your bill of rights and constitution, and laws. I’m pretty sure there are supposed to be designated public TV stations available. Say something real on one.

The problem is the distractions. There are so many different defensive mechanisms of groups of people, fighting for control, I’m not going to get into any of them. The only way to end it is to unite under one ideal, freedom, and progress for everyone. The reason we live here, in America.

We didn’t have to get rid of all our different groups to get along in the beginning. We just had to get rid of the British, and we didn‘t have rights.

Screw their propagated details. DENY IGNORANCE! Vote Freedom!

Keep up the discussion and remember to SPREAD and FLAG this thread!!

[edit on 18-10-2007 by captainplanet]

reply to post by captainplanet


I am sorry...who is she? I have never heard of her. Is she a college professor in political science? A historian?

She is a good speaker. What is it though that we are supposed to be rising up against? What is so different today about our country that wasn't true ten, twenty, even one hundred years ago?

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the Civil War. He also occupied and brutalized American cities (like Atlanta during Sherman's march).

We sort of forced the Indians off of the land that they owned (they were sort of here first).

We had something called slavery that most of the founding fathers did not seem to have a problem with.

In the 1940's, thousands of Japanese citizens were imprisoned because they were...well, Japanese.

We went through a crushing depression.

Our country has always survived. The problem is that it is made up of people like you and me. Bush is just like you and me. What would you do in his position? What would you do if you were head of Homeland Security and facing the very real threat of terrorism?

I just don't think there is a vast conspiracy to destroy America. I think we should always be vigilant...but not paranoid. Our country is far from perfect because people are far from perfect.

Anyway, just my opinion. She really is a good speaker, though.

reply to post by Kenesay200

I am sorry...who is she? I have never heard of her. Is she a college professor in political science? A historian?

Who cares, watch the video. Do you understand logic? Use it to deduct whether or not she is right. I don’t care where you got your “papers”. If your logic is good, you should have a right to be taken seriously. That’s another controlling system. Put them through the process before they are allowed to speak, if that‘s not controlling, I don‘t know what is.

She is a good speaker.

Intelligent people usually are

What is it though that we are supposed to be rising up against?

Lies, corruption

What is so different today about our country that wasn't true ten, twenty, even one hundred years ago?

The federal reserve, many laws, policies and parties, a general non consensus on what needs to be done, and the internet. A lot of the things are the same, lets keep them that way.

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the Civil War. He also occupied and brutalized American cities (like Atlanta during Sherman's march).

We sort of forced the Indians off of the land that they owned (they were sort of here first).

We had something called slavery that most of the founding fathers did not seem to have a problem with.

In the 1940's, thousands of Japanese citizens were imprisoned because they were...well, Japanese.

We went through a crushing depression.

Well I guess we should have said, NO! in all those situations, yes?
These things happen because of ignorance. I don’t have to ride a horse halfway across the country to tell you when something is wrong anymore. Those incidents had no where near the global attention they would receive today, and the people who did know, should have stopped it. Don’t be a good dog for your treat, be a wolf.

It’s also proof that democracy is constantly under attack, and that is the conspiracy. She didn’t say it’s the same people, she said they use the same system.

Our country has always survived. The problem is that it is made up of people like you and me.

It survived because of our constitution

Bush is just like you and me. What would you do in his position? What would you do if you were head of Homeland Security and facing the very real threat of terrorism?

That’s an interesting question. I’d start by not arming people in there homeland, and bullying their politics. Maybe give them all a lap top and make them a little smarter. Then I wouldn’t use a real threat to start a separate war. Great, make two enemies. Then, I wouldn’t implicate policies that strip the constitution.

I just don't think there is a vast conspiracy to destroy America. I think we should always be vigilant...but not paranoid.

There are constantly conspiracies threatening democracy. I agree, “always be vigilant...but not paranoid” That’s why what she’s saying is important, be aware and don’t let it happen. She acknowledges paranoia as a tool for control, it’s distracting.

Our country is far from perfect because people are far from perfect.

Why are people so far from perfect? Is it because they are thrown so much BS they don’t know what’s going on? Isn’t that a good way to set people up so you can tell them what’s going on?

In order to seize Freedom, you need to distract people from it. That’s what a lot of the political bickering, and media induced fear does.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by captainplanet]

Freedom is a simple concept defined by many laws, don’t forget the concept, and don’t get sucked in by hype. That’s the message.

Real conspiracies exist and have been followed through, she’s telling you exactly how they happen, in the hope that YOU won’t let one happen. It’s a process being acted out all over the world, constantly, by different groups who want YOUR allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for ALL.

It represents my constitution, which I am doing my small part to try and protect, by trying to get this blueprint for control out there. You can help:

Watch the video, show a friend, flag the post, try me again. Do your part, by always denying ignorance, no matter what.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by captainplanet]

Naomi's message is pure,...

But do not let that message prevent you from investigating the implications to their fullest extent!

She has "keyed" into a "core" sentiment...


It is up to the rest of us to work it out...

reply to post by coastlinekid


I agree, let's not get irrational. Let's chalk everything up to coincidence and societal context. All of the associations to the past, the 'echo's she's drawing are circumstantial.

I'm sorry. I just can't get over this list. There are so many implications. It would be one thing if Terrorist A get's listed because he makes frequent phone calls to suspicious numbers in Iraq and frequents jolly roger sites and the like... but the people on the list that were mentioned were those that spoke out about our constitution.

These are not people running around in the streets burning effigies of Bush and shouting "Behead those who forsake Islam"... These are people who at some point have made public statements about our rights being trampled.

It's just mind bottling to me.
That above all else I've seen on this site holds the most ground, for me, that something is going on. I lurk and chuckle at most of this stuff... occasionally play the devil's advocate... but this is one of those rare gems. I'm surprised I hadn't heard of it before - it seems to be somewhat common knowledge.

Originally posted by Redge777
reply to post by undo

 

Your point assumes that the police and military go along with a dictatorial crack down. Education is key so if we do slide into the abyss the police and military will do as they are sworn, and protect the constitution. This is also why dictators set up private armies, as the speaker in the film mentioned, Blackwater now has Billion dollar inside the USA contract.

It's not my point, just random info on the subject. I think at the time it was a discussion concerning people's militias. Say a group of people get together and form a militia and decide the local gov is not behaving and challenge its authority. That was what the police officer told me. ... i think he was a police officer. Anyway, the point being that if groups of average citizens feel they can win with violence, well...... it's not 1776 anymore.

reply to post by captainplanet


I think I watched her talk about this subject on the Steven Colbert show. She pretty much lays out the despot blueprint to create a Fascist State.

You have to remember Prescott Bush's ties to the Nazi's and now his son and grandson (current president of the US) is in power.

I did not vote for Bush the first or second time and proud to say it. But I think a lot of American are embarrassed that he is our leader and sit back and think "How the hell did this happen." At least Tony Blair can speak well and seems to be a very intelligent courtier. I can only imagine what Blair thinks of Bush.

This country is lost and technically does not exist when Bush signed the "The North American Union Treaty" back in 2005. The only guy to talk about it on one show then was Lou Dobbs.

Banks and Cooperations are going to own the world and run the wars to stay rich. I don't think there is anything anyone can do to stop it. This is a long process that has been going on for at least 60 years.

The sad thing is I know that most Americans are aware of this but feel we can do nothing about it. God only knows how many times I've written to my congressman and senators and that does not do any good. I usually get a scripted response saying "we are doing everything we can which is why I support bill blah blah blah." Americans are just too busy trying to stay afloat and try hard not to sink into credit debt.

I can go on and on, but I am only saying what most Americans already know. It's like we are just hoping the next narcissistic nut case will be a better president, and chances are good.

Bush did do his job, he did what he was elected to do for the corporations and the elite rich people who want more money and power. He made his buddies and friends rich and now it's almost time for him to leave.

I can only hope most Americans will remember this awful experience and learn from it. But I doubt it.





[edit on 10/19/2007 by TheInfamousOne]

reply to post by TheInfamousOne

“This country is lost and technically does not exist when Bush signed the "The North American Union Treaty" back in 2005. The only guy to talk about it on one show then was Lou Dobbs.

Non-forceful democratic expansion is ultimately the only cure for war. I don’t know the terms of that agreement, but I’m pretty sure we still have a constitution. Maybe South America has a better one now. Can you imagine life in a United States of Earth? How cheap everything would be without international taxes? How we wouldn’t have to fight over resources? Has New York ever declared war on Texas for oil? There is nothing wrong with a treaty.

Like I said, I don’t know the terms. Is there really anything that strips my freedom in there, or is it just alarmist behavior? Find the answer, if it's ignorance, deny it. If my freedom is lessened from it, I want to know how.

The sad thing is I know that most Americans are aware of this but feel we can do nothing about it. God only knows how many times I've written to my congressman and senators and that does not do any good. I usually get a scripted response saying "we are doing everything we can which is why I support bill blah blah blah."

What did you write them? How many people signed it? How many news groups did you send it too? If no one agrees with you before hand, they will ignore you. That’s democracy. It‘s based on majority. If you have a true message, push it and it will be heard. That’s the uprising.

I can go on and on, but I am only saying what most Americans already know. It's like we are just hoping the next narcissistic nut case will be a better president, and chances are good.

Only fools leave things to chance. Your smarter and more powerful than that, don’t let them tell you different. It’s how they stop you from paying attention and voting. Read between everyone’s lines.

Bush did do his job, he did what he was elected to do for the corporations and the elite rich people who want more money and power. He made his buddies and friends rich and now it's almost time for him to leave.

I can only hope most Americans will remember this awful experience and learn from it. But I doubt it.

He did what all future dictators do. He played the “all american” card based on a false view of America. America is about freedom, not capitalism.

Here’s the second interview I’ve seen with Naomi Wolf, this time on MSNBC:

www.youtube.com...

run time, 6:42.

“You had said, “Some are guilty. Some are innocent. They should be tried.” and of course, Podia. Even conservatives that supported the Bush administration, law and order types, very concerned about this guy that you can throw in jail, not give him an attorney, not giving him any kind of constitutional protections, but they we’re finally forced to give him a trial and, he was found guilty.”
-Morning Joe, MSNBC new

“That’s right.”
-Wolf

“So the question is, why are they afraid of sunlight, who said sunlight is the best disinfectant it is?”
-Morning Joe, MSNBC new

“It is in a democracy, that’s right. But when people are trying to shift a, and you know, I have to use very harsh words. When people are trying to shift a system into something less than a democracy, into another kind of regime, sunlight is the enemy. The point is that, what happened to Jose Podia, could happen to any one of [us]“
-Wolf

That’s where it the video ends.

Is this really the best corporate media can do to prove she‘s wrong? Saying someone actually got a fair trial and was found guilty. Is he implying that none of them should get a fair trial because one of them was guilty?

Then he asks why “sunlight” is their enemy. He can’t grasp the need for veiling yourself when partaking in a political conspiracy?
“So the question is, why are they afraid of sunlight, who said sunlight is the best disinfectant it is?” Does anyone really buy that as anything but mockery or a prompted question? He wouldn't need to ask that. It is a uselessly simple question to ask when talking about a true, proven, process for the seizure of democracy. Did they just tell us it made sence? Either way, we need to get her on TV until she’s actually wrong, because if she‘s not, then it needs to be THE topic in the news. Then we’d be questioning politicians, not Naomi.

MSNBC either thinks we are really dumb, or they are slyly agreeing with her in a very cowardly fashion. Demand they have her back on because we’re not satisfied with that interview, it was weak.

And how the hell is that video titled “Naomi Wolf violates Godwin's Law”. What part did I miss? Where was she wrong? I’ve yet to see ANYBODY consistently deny she’s right in this thread. NOTHING I’ve found so far on the internet has convinced me she is wrong. Why isn't she wrong at all? It's a crazy conspiracy theory. Why can't you prove it to be false?

www.youtube.com...

it's only 1:36, it's not me, it was just in the realted threads of the other video. it just seemed related. It seems to be the general feeling.

This should be a very easy message to spread if that’s the best they can come up with to defeat it.

The fact that cowardice, or propaganda, like this even exists on MSNBC News, goes even further to prove her implications.

Please flag it, and spread it around. If no one is talking about it on your other sites, start a topic. Write emails with a link to this thread to MSNBC or other news groups. Tell them you want a real interview with Naomi Wolf and that if they don't prove her wrong, to have another. Remind them of THEIR responsiblity to freedom in informing the puplic. Deny Ignorance.

She is making a HUGE IMPLICATION. Turn a cog.

[edit on 20-10-2007 by captainplanet]

You can contact that show here:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The box on the right.

What happens when you find a real conspiracy?