Warning: Revelations

Originally posted by xstealth

Originally posted by jprophet420

But every person is a sinner except for Jesus, so no one can get in...

Anyone who is saved and prays for forgiveness is written in the Lambs book of life. That was the point of Jesus dying on the cross.

So yes, it clearly states, those people will get in.

I'm sure you have to; Love your neighbor, Have faith in Jesus Christ, and repent. I think leaving one out does not get your name in the book of life. Read the First, Second, and Third letters of John in the bible. He clearly states this. But you are correct yes. As long as the sin is venial and not mortal, and the repent is in the name of Gods love, not the fear of hell, then you are forgiven. You are also forgiven for mortal sins, but it takes more repentance, and possible many many good deeds, selfless service.

BACK to the discussion of revelations PLEASE.

[edit on 17-10-2007 by 1337cshacker]

Originally posted by jarheadjock


Anyways, i do think there willl be a Great Trib. but i dont think it will be that extensive. The casualties from those calamities will kill billions. I dont think God would want to kill billions, maybe tens of millions but not that high. And i dont think that mulitiple asteroids would hit, maybe just 1, and that Wormwood would ignite the earthquakes and volcanoes.

The "end of days" will happen. It just won't be what people's imaginations have concocted it to be. Will there be millions die? Yes, but over a period of about 10 years...

reply to post by Xeven



That is the problem I have with the OT.... It really doesn't describe the God I know at all, but I'll refrain.

This is just the same doom and gloom scenario that people have been pushing down out throats for the past decade or so.

Sure you can take everything that the bible says at face value, OR, you could take it with a grain of salt and think...hey, this book was compiled by men, and men are fallible.

Of course, this is the word of the Lord, but its not like God sat down with some dudes for a giant dictation session. The bible is a compilation of accounts provided by different people, and they are only the accounts that the Council of Nicea decided to include. For all we know, they are the ones that seemed the coolest to the Council and the ones that really meant something were burned or discarded as blasphemy.

While the Book of Revelation does provide a seeminly graphic and firm account of what will happen in the end time, there is no real evidence that we are in fact in the end times. Yes, there is famine, disease and war, but those things have been going on sice the beginning of time. There is nothing that serves to dictate that the book is pure fact, and that we are experiencing it right now.

I guess we have to wait and see what happens next.

Originally posted by Don Wahn
This is just the same doom and gloom scenario that people have been pushing down out throats for the past decade or so.

Sure you can take everything that the bible says at face value, OR, you could take it with a grain of salt and think...hey, this book was compiled by men, and men are fallible.

Of course, this is the word of the Lord, but its not like God sat down with some dudes for a giant dictation session. The bible is a compilation of accounts provided by different people, and they are only the accounts that the Council of Nicea decided to include. For all we know, they are the ones that seemed the coolest to the Council and the ones that really meant something were burned or discarded as blasphemy.

While the Book of Revelation does provide a seeminly graphic and firm account of what will happen in the end time, there is no real evidence that we are in fact in the end times. Yes, there is famine, disease and war, but those things have been going on sice the beginning of time. There is nothing that serves to dictate that the book is pure fact, and that we are experiencing it right now.

I guess we have to wait and see what happens next.

Interesting.

I understand imperfection is inborn into every man. Revelations was written with divine help, between the vision itself, and the bible code. God did not sit down with them, but I'm sure if God is capable of giving a vision he can help a man write a book of what is to come. While what you say is still possible, but it is unlikely. There is either faith or no faith, not any of this half assed stuff. 1 or 0, on or off, true or false, faith or no faith.

As for why I think we are in the end times, I think it is from the rebirth of Israel. The bible says it will happen AFTER the rebirth of Israel and this will be a sign the latter times are nearing. Thus, the doomsday hype before the rebirth of Israel were all false, not for this reason alone, but part of it. Now that it is reborn, latter times are near. The latter times will include rumors of war along with what you say, and that is happening now, especially with Israel. Mahamedjimahadlacka acka dacka whoever his name is president of Iran, says that Israel should be wiped clean off the map. This is a sign of the latter. Also, the majority of the worlds population is in sin without repent (god will clean the earth as he did in noahs age when this happens), men and women are getting sex changes (a sign), and women are a mere tool for fapping off to and are not loved as greatly (another sign). Sure some of the things have been happening for hundreds of years, but its when they are all combined and happening at once (like now) when the one big sign comes up. God/Jesus posed it subtly so only true followers would know for sure.

I respect what you are saying though, and not trying to debunk it, only spreading what I believe and trying to educate (not you, but all) on these principals. If the end of the world doesn't come in our lifetime, I won't be disappointed, but I am sure this is not the case. If not in 2012, sometime sooner or later, as no date is set. Events are set to take place in 2012, solar flare, possible Yellowstone eruption, etc, but the ultimate and final day of judgment is UNKNOWN. Or is it. Take this bible code string from revelations/isiah:

2012, comet, large, stone-like/stony, object, sped, tounge-like, sun-whole earth/earth annihilated-smitten/stricken-smitten, Planetary/Wanderer, fragmentary, sixty mile-blunderbus/scatter-gun, crater, canada, ultimate, terrifying, appalling, lethal, modifier-mantel-axis-tilting-tipping, speeded, seismic-eradication-it will be crumbled/I will tear it to pieces.

Not from the king james version either. I have heard of people having dream of 2012, the numbers 12212012 in their head for no reason. Obviously something will happen, if not end of the total world, the end of society.

Some think now through mathematical calculation in Washington DC this, or a certain, event can be calculated to 2007. Read this topic in general conspir:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by John_Q_Llama


You have asked some very good and tough questions. I thank 1337cshacker for the answers he has given you.

Why didn't God leave sin out of the mix? If God created everything, why did he create sin? Or did He create sin? We don't know how God came to exist. As 1337cshaker said, he justs exists. It is something we can't comprehend. Here is a mind boggling question that can't be answered either; did good and evil also just exist, or did God create good and evil also?

If good and evil just existed, God could have created everything good. Evil showed up in Lucifer when he got an ego trip thinking he could be greater than God.

The question I always had is if God created angels without a will, how could have Lucifer even begin to think he could become greater than God? Could it be possible that God created good and evil when he decided he didn't like the thoughts Lucifer had.

Then God created us with a will. Why did God create us and give us a will when he knew what would happen? The Bible tells us that he wanted a relationship with us. Is it that he couldn't have the kind of relationship he wanted with the angels, because they didn't have a will? Did he want to be sure that we would want to be with him and talk with him? Did He want to make sure that we wouldn't turn out like Lucifer and cause more havoc in heaven?

Yes, God loves us, but that is only one facet of him. He does also get angry. Near the beginning, he was very close to destroying everything and everyone. It was almost as if he was questioning if he made a mistake or not. There was an interesting conversation between him and Noah. It was through Noah's plea that he didn't destroy everything, but restarted with Noah. There are other places both in the Old and New Testament where you can see God and Jesus getting angry. In Revelations, Jesus isn't coming back with love this time, but with a holy anger and justice.

Also, in the Bible it says sin has a price, and that price is death. This can be looked at in two ways. One death came into the world, or that the death punishment was spiritual in nature. I'm leaning more towards the spiritual in nature, because after Jesus redeemed us we still die physically.

Sorry if I raised more questions than I may have answered. There are some things I do know. One, is that we can not know the mind of God. His wisdom confounds the wise. Two, much of this deals with faith, and personal experience. I believe it was God who has pulled me out of some tough spots, and continues to do so. Otherwise, right now I would not have any hope.
Three, no matter what I find out after death, I know I lived a good life, learned to be kind to others, and hopefully gave others hope as I was given hope where there was none before.

Originally posted by 1337cshacker

I'm sure you have to; Love your neighbor, Have faith in Jesus Christ, and repent. I think leaving one out does not get your name in the book of life. Read the First, Second, and Third letters of John in the bible. He clearly states this. But you are correct yes. As long as the sin is venial and not mortal, and the repent is in the name of Gods love, not the fear of hell, then you are forgiven. You are also forgiven for mortal sins, but it takes more repentance, and possible many many good deeds, selfless service.

BACK to the discussion of revelations PLEASE.

[edit on 17-10-2007 by 1337cshacker]

Thank you for the excellent answers you have given to John.

Remember you are saved by the grace of God alone, and not through works. God wants you to know he is God, and that there is nothing you can do to save yourself.

Works are very important though. For without works, faith is dead. The two go hand in hand.

If the distinction you are making between mortal and venial sin is of catholic orgin, the according to the list of mortal sins given at cahtolicdoors.com, then none of the New Testament except the gospels would have been written. Some of the things the apostles did would have definitely fallen under mortal sin. All the letters Paul wrote would have never been written. He was a murderer. He was one of the ones who hunted Christians down to kill them before his experience on Damascus road. I was born and raised Catholic, but there was so much I disagreed with that I left.

When I read the Bible, it tells me of only one unforgivable sin. I was never able to answer exactly what that particular sin was whether it is the rejection of the Holy Spirit and Jesus, blasphemy, or something else.

reply to post by Mystery_Lady

When I read the Bible, it tells me of only one unforgivable sin. I was never able to answer exactly what that particular sin was whether it is the rejection of the Holy Spirit and Jesus, blasphemy, or something else.

It is a sin that only God's elect can commit in the end of days.


When the elect are "brought unto the synagogues and unto magistrates, and powers" ......meaning, when the elect are taken before Satan who is in Jerusalem pretending to be Christ, the Holy Spirit will speak through them. If that isn't allowed or if the person instead answered on his own, his own thoughts, then that would be the unforgiveable sin. (Luke 12:10)


To me it means that when that happens, when that event is broadcast around the world, then all of the seeds the children of God have been planting will suddenly sprout. People will understand that what they have been told is true and they therefore accept God....souls are saved!


.........Whirlwind

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by 1337cshacker

I'm sure you have to; Love your neighbor, Have faith in Jesus Christ, and repent. I think leaving one out does not get your name in the book of life. Read the First, Second, and Third letters of John in the bible. He clearly states this. But you are correct yes. As long as the sin is venial and not mortal, and the repent is in the name of Gods love, not the fear of hell, then you are forgiven. You are also forgiven for mortal sins, but it takes more repentance, and possible many many good deeds, selfless service.

BACK to the discussion of revelations PLEASE.

[edit on 17-10-2007 by 1337cshacker]

Thank you for the excellent answers you have given to John.

Remember you are saved by the grace of God alone, and not through works. God wants you to know he is God, and that there is nothing you can do to save yourself.

Works are very important though. For without works, faith is dead. The two go hand in hand.

If the distinction you are making between mortal and venial sin is of catholic orgin, the according to the list of mortal sins given at cahtolicdoors.com, then none of the New Testament except the gospels would have been written. Some of the things the apostles did would have definitely fallen under mortal sin. All the letters Paul wrote would have never been written. He was a murderer. He was one of the ones who hunted Christians down to kill them before his experience on Damascus road. I was born and raised Catholic, but there was so much I disagreed with that I left.

When I read the Bible, it tells me of only one unforgivable sin. I was never able to answer exactly what that particular sin was whether it is the rejection of the Holy Spirit and Jesus, blasphemy, or something else.

Interesting response about venial and mortal. I only knew of them through the index in the back of my bible. My bible is from the Vatican after all!

As for blasphemy, I have once tried not to believe in god when I was very young. I knew in the back of my mind he did exist though. I once told someone "He does not exist", but in the back of my head I was thinking "...yes he does." I do not know if this is true blasphemy, but I have repented for it heavily anyway, because it was a shameful thing to do to such a great and only lord. About a year ago when I got arrested and jailed for a no good law I cursed his name "F you god!, how could you let this happen to me, I was a peaceful person not hurting anyone, Jesus might have done this!" etc. I became very angry with him, cursing him, I was suicidal, etc, when everything was my own doing. I realized everything happens for a reason and repented in this. I know now my faith and love in god to be very strong, stronger than it has ever been in fact. Some people I know across the net catch me saying something "hey you don't seem that kind of person", "Well I am" Even my family has noticed that I never cared about spirituality before now. I think this is why this event happened now, either as a test in my faith or to strengthen my love with god. Love, is all emotions, including hate. I think it is impossibly to truly love god deeply without once hating him, much like a wife/husband.

What do you think?

Originally posted by whirlwind

"I understand why you say what you do but you should leave man's idea of religion behind and follow Christ."

I don't see how anyone ever fell for the idea of a new born being "born in sin." It seems we simply take the word of those in authority and it is a mistake.

No one is damned because of what happened in the garden but we are all sinners. God sent His Son and if we believe in Him and repent then those sins are forgiven. I wouldn't call that being an extortionist.

He just wants your love.....Is that so much to ask?

............Whirlwind

Indeed following Man's law will not save you but following God's law will.


Oh and I have a question for everyone. What day does the Sabbath- the 7th day fall on based on today's calender?

(Answer and I will explain further. Think carefully before you answer)

Originally posted by Leyla

Originally posted by whirlwind

"I understand why you say what you do but you should leave man's idea of religion behind and follow Christ."

I don't see how anyone ever fell for the idea of a new born being "born in sin." It seems we simply take the word of those in authority and it is a mistake.

No one is damned because of what happened in the garden but we are all sinners. God sent His Son and if we believe in Him and repent then those sins are forgiven. I wouldn't call that being an extortionist.

He just wants your love.....Is that so much to ask?

............Whirlwind

Indeed following Man's law will not save you but following God's law will.


Oh and I have a question for everyone. What day does the Sabbath- the 7th day fall on based on today's calender?

(Answer and I will explain further. Think carefully before you answer)

Saturday.

Hi all,

First off some really good posts on this thread, it’s awesome to see God working in such a way.

Mysterious lady (brilliant post's) you said that lucifer/satan and the angels had no free will, could you explain where you read this please for as I see and understand it all of the angels were given free will or else how could a third of them rebel against god with out choice/free will.
It was nothing to do with Satan not trusting God but satan not liking Gods plans to raise man above the angels.

The bible is truth delivered true to who ever or which ever apostle receives it, it is after that satan comes along and twists it to suit his own dark purposes.

One example of this is hell (hole/grave), people think hell is someplace you spend for eternity (hehe) not so I am afraid, hell for God is simply eternal death i.e. no coming back, no resurrection, no existence, you are gone for good, you cease to exist in spirit, that is Gods hell and to be frank I cannot think of anything worse (at least hell would be an existence).
Satan has twisted this simple fact to his own purposes, there is no hell but what we make for ourselves.

I think but cant member exactly but I think unforgivable sin is actually spiritual murder; this is one of the worst acts a human can do to another human in Gods eye.

Some people have asked why God left satan on earth, I will explain it as I see it, God left satan on earth as part of the lesson so that when satan is eventually banished for good it will be like WOW, so that was the influence of satan, sin will be much easier to resist while it serves to toughen us against our own selfish and arrogant natures when that is all that is left for us to resist.
God knew what would happen in the Garden of Eden, it was the beginning of Gods great plan for man, Gods teaching.

Now to revelation, how many people know and understand that we are in the later stage of the sixth the seal?
The op,s original link was interesting for sure but upon closer inspection of the web site and its author (Larry W. Wilson) anyone could glean the information he is touting by reading carefully the book of revelation. For one thing he does not even mention the seven thunders!!!!
These seven thunders started back in 2001 and I am amazed he did not mention them on his web sight unless I missed it.

That is all I will say for now, unless people would like me to explain anything I have written.

Good luck.

weareone, Thank you for your words.

I did not see the seven thunders in there either. None the less, it still has accurate description of everything else would you agree?

About your view on hell. I am not saying it is wrong, but, it sounds rather... comforting? There have been times in my life where I wished not to exist at all, never to be born, never to go to heaven or hell, just not to exist period. By your definition I have wished for hell. In retrospect, this is not what I wish now, or will ever wish again. I think that living a good life, loving and doing Gods ways, and living in heaven afterward will be much more comforting after all.

I also have another philosophical question.

The bible says (at least mine in the index under heaven). It describes it as a place where you exist with god. That no sin action or sin thought can come to you as you are then separated from sin. Thus, it is impossible to sin in heaven. I would like to know how Lucifer decided to sin in heaven, as, my index makes it out to be impossible. Interesting Indeed...

[edit on 20-10-2007 by 1337cshacker]

Originally posted by Leyla


Oh and I have a question for everyone. What day does the Sabbath- the 7th day fall on based on today's calender?

(Answer and I will explain further. Think carefully before you answer)

Saturday, since our calender shows Sunday as the beginning of the week even though many people consider Monday the beginning of the week, since it is the start of the work week.

According to our calender compared to the traditional Hebrew calender, I would say Friday evening 6pm through Saturday evening 6pm. Because traditionally the Jewish day starts and ends at 6pm, and not at midnight when our day and night ends.

reply to post by 1337cshacker


You definitely went through some trials. Trials always strengthen you. You stayed with God even when you were angry at him, and that is what counts. Now you need to trust in the Lord no matter what happens or what trials will find you in the future. Remember your past trials, and count it to the glory of the Lord. When a new trail hits, say Jesus you got me through that and I know you will get me through this. Who knows God may be using you to rub off on your family also. Praise God when he does.

I know for a fact that God will use the least likely people to do his work. He uses those who are obedient to him, and will do what He asks of them even if it sounds totally strange and off the wall.

One example is Jessie Duplantis. You may have seen or heard of him. He was totally messed up "rock star" in a band. He hated church and the only time he would go was if someone dragged him. God got hold of him, and now he has one of the biggest ministries I can name off hand.

My pastor a evangelist pentecostal preacher use to do drugs and alcohol before God got hold of him. I have been in a few churches church hopping as they say. I always find myself ending up going back there. He has the guts to preach the Word of God as it should be preached, and not the soft messages pastors create themselves making sure not to offend anyone. God can't move in those churches, since the pastor is too afraid of offending anyone.

My pastor will step on toes and offend people if God so directs him to. He has even changed his sermon at the last minute because God directed him to. He has also changed entire Sunday services into a pure worship service because he felt God leading him to do so.

The church is small granted, but he isn't afraid to do what he believes God is telling him to do. He isn't perfect either, and will be the first one to admit it. There will be times he shares what God is putting him through also.

I don't know what God has planned for you, but know this. Stick with him, and he will take care of you. He will help you to grow more spiritually than you ever thought possible. He will use you when you don't even realize it. Sometimes you never will, and other times you will later on. No matter where God places you, that is where he wants you to be.

Stick with Him, and He will stick with you. Stay with Him always.

You are blessed,
ML

reply to post by WeAreOne


Thank you for the complement.

My pastor corrected me. He said angels had free will. Because of they had free will, that was how Lucifer was able to gain his ego trip and let sin in. It makes more sense. He didn't say anything about where sin originally came from. He didn't believe God created it though.

I can't remember when I first thought angels didn't have a free will. I think I may have assumed it, since God said he gave humans free will. I thought he didn't give angels free will since he didn't mention it in the Bible.

You are right, Lucifer hates us because of the position God has given us. I do remember reading in the Bible that he thought he could become as great if not greater than God himself. That is why he tempted Jesus to bow down at his feet during the 40 days and nights he was in the desert.

I'll have to disagree with you on Hell. According to Matthew 25:41 Hell is a real place prepared for the devil and his angels. Revelations 14:9-10 anyone worship the beast and accept his mark, that they will drink of God's wrath and be tormented with fire and brimstone. I believe this refers to the lake of fire mentioned in Revelations 20:14. This is a very interesting, and something I don't have a full grasp on as of yet. I may not until after I die. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

From that verse, one is told that hell is different from the lake and fire. Hell and death are both cast into it. If death can be cast into it, then exactly what is death? Sometimes the Bible leaves us with more questions than answers.

I faintly heard that the seals have already started to happen. I could never find out exactly where we are suppose to be. Also consider this. Some believed the prophetic time clock stopped after Jesus was raised again, and restarted when Israel became a nation again. If this was true, then Revelations would have already started.

Also, God already gave us His time line through the feasts He gave the Jews. Did you know the passover feast was also related to the death and resruction of Jesus? There is too much there to really get into. We are in between feasts. As far as I know we are awaiting the feast of the Trumpets.

It has been awhile since I looked into this. If I remember correctly, the previous feasts were the spring feasts. I think the Feast of the trumpets start the fall feasts. The fall feasts were sober and somber feasts. There is not actually much feasting going on. I have to do more research on the feast of the trumpets. It does deal with a trumpet or shofar being blown and people gathering I believe. This correlates to 1corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Each year the feasts are being practiced by the Jews.
At the same time, God's overall time line is being fulfilled. When I read the last trump and thought about the feast of the trumpets. I did think that the last trump was the last trump would be the trump blown that would fulfill God's overall time line. It is something I need to look further into though.

Other than that, I'm not sure where the feast of the trumpets would fall in Revelations.

Your thoughts on what happened in the Garden of Eden are very interesting. It really does seem that this is how God was going to weed out those who would rebel against him as did Lucifer. Those people who are weeded out would not be able to respond with, I wouldn't do that. I would never turn against you. What you say you are going to do and your actions can be two totally different things.

Also, don't forget there were two trees in the garden. The tree of life, and the tree of knolwedge of good and evil. Even there God gave Adam and Eve a choice of which tree to eat from. They never ate from the tree of life. In Genesis 3:22-23, God drove them out of Eden, least they eat it and live forever. Somehow that was a fate worse than death. Eventhough God has given us a free will to choose, he has taken some choices away from us, for our own good though.

I wonder if he would have removed the tree of good and evil if they had eaten from the tree of life first?

Also, another interesting question to go along with everything. In Genesis 3:22, God said man is become as one of us... Exactly who is God referring to when he said us? Did he mean the trinity, or did he include the angels? If he included the angles with the term us, then it could be implied that the angels already knew the difference between good and evil. Therefore the rebellion Lucifer started against God didn't start innocently with sin creeping in, but with full knowledge and understanding that he was in rebellion. Unlike Eve who was lied to, swayed, and deceived to take an action that was against God's will.

Originally posted by 1337cshacker
weareone, Thank you for your words.

I also have another philosophical question.

The bible says (at least mine in the index under heaven). It describes it as a place where you exist with god. That no sin action or sin thought can come to you as you are then separated from sin. Thus, it is impossible to sin in heaven. I would like to know how Lucifer decided to sin in heaven, as, my index makes it out to be impossible. Interesting Indeed...

[edit on 20-10-2007 by 1337cshacker]

If you read my reply to WeAreOne, Genesis 3:22 brings up the question to whom God referred when He said us. Did that mean the angels also? If it did, then that verse tells us that the angels already knew the difference between good and evil.

No where in the Bible does it say that the angels always stayed in heaven with God. But the Bible does imply that that angels could go out of heaven. Lucifer was in the garden deceiving Eve. (I'm going to stick with the name Lucifer instead of switching to Satan. Less complicated even though the two might be different angels. ) Lucifer was able to travel outside of heaven. We are not told what is out side of heaven except Earth and the universe that God created. There could have very well have been nothing.

Even if there was nothing, after God made the sun and other stars, the angels could have traveled around in the universe God created, thus leaving heaven. Thus they were able to sin outside of heaven.

Even after Lucifer sinned, he seemed to be able to bring that sin to heaven. In the book of Job, he had several talks with God. He stayed in heaven until the war happened that was talked about in Revelations in which Lucifer took 1/3 of the angels with him when he was cast out of heaven.

This is only conjecture.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by whirlwind

 

Christ is a man made religion though, as I already mentioned Jesus was the son of man and not the product of the God that exists at the edge of the universe.

Yeah Jesus was probably a nice bloke and had some great idea's and more importantly was a great carpenter and fisherman, but sadly he died a long time ago (twice)...

Personally, I believe that if God ever sent a 'son' down to earth, we wouldn't be able to look 'it' in the eye as our brains would not be able to comprehend what we would be seeing.

It wouldn't look human for a start. It would be made out light and would be both 'timeless' and 'sexless'.

isn't that the point, it had to be recognisable, and "REAL", certainly to someone living in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago, never mind now *it would just freak us out now it it was something beyond comprehension, that would defeat the purpose, as we only fully comprehend when we shed this mortal coil and leave the 3d world behind*

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by whirlwind

 

Do tell. Why does your god need my love? Does he not get enough hugs from you folks, that he has to shop around? He sounds emotionally fragile. I don't date needy people, and I'm not about to commit to a needy god. I prefer the mutual respect relationship I have with the ones I've got already. Thanks, though.

think a previous poster referred to Ego, self absorption and denial of things greater than self- symbolic of our time