Women need to shut up and sit down

so tell me the positive aspects of erasing the beautiful differences btw men and women to cross roles so to speak?

and i didn't say that men couldn't be as nurturing, but when they succeed to the degree of a mother, it is often the exception to the rule and hardly the rule.

and i am not opposed to families that have switched roles necessarily, but that is hardly a norm that succeeds. you are taking incidents that are really not that common to prove that it can work.

right now broken families ARE the norm...... what is the explanation for this? right now, you can go browse myspace and see thousands of women who are angry at "men" as a whole and men who disrespect women and their value as a human being.

so, why is this? if modern feminism was supposed to help me, as a woman, feel respected, why is it that when i look around me in this society i feel extremely invaluable as a woman?

[edit on 18-7-2008 by justamomma]

Feminism's Dead End: "The Vagina Monologues"
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
October 24, 2001

While bombs rain down on Afghanistan this week, theatergoers in Washington D.C. are paying $50-70 at the National Theatre to see Eve Ensler's play "The Vagina Monologues". This play partly exemplifies why radical Islam has declared war on America. The play pretends to be about women's rights. In fact, it is little more than a public reading of explicit lesbian pornography. "The Vagina Monologues" is a celebration of lesbianism that is being produced in 25 countries, including Turkey and China. We are exporting homosexuality and the social disintegration that goes with it.

Muslim fundamentalists believe their culture is threatened. They are fighting to preserve their wives and children who are the future. If their wives are infected by our homosexuality, they will insist on becoming "independent" like men. Their birth rate will plummet like ours has, and their families and culture will disintegrate. In countries with minimal government social safety nets, families and children are also essential for survival.

I don't wish to imply that culture is the only reason for this conflict. Nevertheless, Harvard Professor Samuel Huntington, in "The Clash of Civilizations" (1996), argues that future world conflicts will reflect cultural differences and ways of worshipping God: "The forces of integration in the world are real and are precisely what are generating counter forces of cultural assertion and civilizational consciousness."

"The Vagina Monologues" presents a sad picture of life at the dead-end of feminism. It is an anguished cry for male love by a generation of women deceived by feminism, who now have no choice but to become lesbians. For women who are literally starved for love, the play provides a steamy experience of sexual intimacy. For young women who don't know any better, it is an initiation into lesbianism.

Based on interviews with women, who talk about their vaginas, the play purports to rescue the female genitals from "cultural neglect." For example, the play describes a workshop in which women examine themselves with hand-mirrors. "It reminded me of how early astronomers must have felt with their primitive telescopes," says Ensler. They give their vagina nicknames, dress it up in imaginary outfits, and imagine what it would say if it could talk (e.g. "Where's Brian?"). At one performance at the Madison Square Gardens, 18,000 women were whipped into a frenzy of shouting "#" over and over.

They should have been shouting "penis" because this is really about the loss of male love. Having lost their femininity and their youth, having rejected or emasculated men, millions of women are now left sexually high and dry.

Both sexes need validation. Men these days don't like feminists and feminists know it. Every time we turn on TV, a man is being beat-up or berated by a woman. Men resent that women have usurped the male role and deserted the feminine one. I believe this is what Ensler is actually experiencing when she says: "Our self-hatred is only the internalized repression and hatred of the patriarchal culture."

Women are justified in feeling unloved and unfulfilled. Ensler says that women want to be used for babies: "My vagina helped release a giant baby. It thought it would be used more than that. It's not." The result is a profound sense of emptiness and need. "My vagina wants to go deeper. It's hungry for depth. It's hungry for kisses, kindness. It wants to stop being angry. It wants everything. It wants to want. It wants."

It appears that only a man can staunch this wound. Ensler describes a boyfriend, Bob, who loved to gaze at her genitals for hours and made her feel good about herself for the first time. She doesn't say what happened to Bob. The only other men in the play are Ensler's first husband, a philanderer, and some rapists in Bosnia.

Thus, "The Vagina Monologues" quickly becomes a steamy chronicle of lesbian sex. In the first place, a fixation on female genitals by women is pure homosexuality. Forgive me for what follows but I am trying to convey the pornographic flavor of this so-called play. The author interviews a former tax lawyer who has become wealthy as a lesbian gigolo. "There are so many unfulfilled women," she says. "Women pay me to dress up like a man and dominate them." She follows with a precise description of her art ("there are four fingers inside me, two are hers and two are mine") that turns Ensler on: "Come on," I said. "Come in."

A 12-year-old girl describes how her mother entrusted her to the care of a beautiful, worldly 24-year-old woman who then betrayed this trust by having sex with her: "She transformed my sorry-assed coochie-snorcher into a kind of heaven." Ensler regresses with children stories of the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" variety. She asks a six-year-old girl to say what her vagina smells like (snowflakes). She informs us that the clitoris has twice the number of nerve fibers as the penis: "Who needs a handgun when you've got a semiautomatic?" She describes finding her clitoris for the first time: "It was all warm and pulsing and ready and young and alive." I could go into more detail but you get the idea.

A measure of our cultural timidity, depravity and self-delusion is that no major media critic has named this play for what it is. "Ensler is an impassioned wit," says the Los Angeles Times. "A compelling rhapsody of the female essence," says The Chicago Tribune. "Spellbinding, funny and almost unbearably moving," says Variety. The play has been performed in hundreds of American cities and universities, and in countries from Rumania to Zaire. Celebrity guest performers include Meryl Streep, Jane Fonda, Calista Frockhart, and Angelica Huston. It was performed in Sarajevo by Marisa Tomei and Glenn Close who said Ensler is "giving women their souls back." Gillian Anderson (of the X-Files) says: "Eve Ensler is the Pied Piper. She is leading woman and the world to a different consciousness of women."

Ensler and her entourage try to position this pitiable lesbian primer in the mainstream. Gloria Steinem writes "men as well as women will emerge from these pages feeling more free within themselvesand about each other." It is typical of feminists to portray lesbianism as emancipation. Ensler has "come out" as yet another survivor of sexual abuse by her father. She has tied the play to the politicized cause of violence against women. Her hatred of heterosexuality is evident by her choice of Valentine's Day, as "V-Day" or anti-violence day, when her play will be performed. She told Molly Ivens in TIME that the patriarchal (i.e. nuclear) family is "a deadly institution."

The nuclear family is the primary institution of heterosexuality. Before the "sexual revolution," women insisted on marriage and family, which is heterosexual behavior. This satisfied the profoundest psychological needs of both sexes and provided a safe context for raising healthy children. After the sexual revolution, men and women engaged in promiscuous sex, which had been more typical of homosexuals. Women, increasingly independent and self-righteous, were unable to form permanent marriages. Taught that they could "have it all", they are now frustrated and bitter.

The irony of "The Vagina Monologues" is that feminists who regularly complain about sexual objectification embrace the play. There is no mention of love. This tendency to view sex as recreation and physical release reflects a self-destructive trend in society. Normally heterosexuals find sexual fulfillment in marriage and are able to turn their energies to more important things. Instead we suffer from cultural arrested development manifested as a lewd adolescent obsession with sex.

Another irony is that feminists apparently think that, when lesbians do it, an adult having sex with a 12-year-old child is OK. They also think that they can violate the natural innocence of a 6-year-old girl with invasive questions. Finally, need I mention that the play outrages and destroys the mystery, modesty and reserve that is the essence of mature femininity? Like feminism itself, "The Vagina Monologues" masquerades as an affirmation of women. In fact, it is a sickening assault on women.

We must face the fact that feminism is a homosexual movement in deadly competition with heterosexuality. Especially in time of war, we cannot afford to encourage a movement dedicated to social divisiveness and disintegration. In addition, we are exporting our homosexuality and depravity to the world. Muslim fundamentalists are fighting back.

We cannot fully claim the moral high ground on the basis of being the victim of terrorism. We must represent a better vision of life to the world by healing our sexual sickness. We must reaffirm the nuclear family and the masculine and feminine values that made America great.

Originally posted by Solarskye
The bible was written in those ancient times and the stories were portrayed in that era or time. Time has changed and so have women and to use bible logic of a different age in 2008 is absurd and for all women out there, " shout it! shout it out loud that you will not be denied freedom of speech whether it be in a church or on the street.

just because no one should deny me the right to speak, doesn't mean i always should. i tend to be articulate in my points, but there have been many times, even on here, when i think "doh!" because no matter how valid my point, my passion got the better of me therefore muting my original point by turning ppl off. rare these days is the woman who understands tact in all situations should be a must. i see more on here, but "out there" not so much.

IN THE REAL WORLD girls are speaking out, arguing, lowering the value and worth by "giving it up" to the prove that if a man can do it w/out shame so can a woman (and both sexes really should be ashamed of such an attitude), blah blah.

all i see is the value and worth for all humans and more specifically for men and women in their naturla roles being lowered... and scariest part of it, the next generation is largely being ignored by everyone but those who would seek to control them.

just because a woman CAN speak out, doesn't mean she always should. men get quiet when they are thinking things through..... women like to talk when they are thinking and thus we have all these bad ideas making their way out into the public all because we feel we have the right to be heard?

women do have that right....... but they should exercise that right to their husbands instead of the whole world.

Originally posted by Swingarm
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
July 27, 2003


(Reader's Note: This summer I am revising important articles that predated my web site.)

"Comrades, you will remember the ancient tale of the capture of Troy ... The attacking army was unable to achieve victory until, with the aid of the famous Trojan Horse, it managed to penetrate to the very heart of the enemy camp."

--George Dimitrov, Comintern General Secretary, August, 1935.



[edit on 18-7-2008 by Swingarm]

what you don't seem to get...
the feminist movement began way back about the same time as they were working to free the slaves....what we refer to as communists, or socialists didn't exist back then.
and I still say, the two go hand in hand....slavery and women being considered submissive second class citizens. the "biblical family teaches children one thing...they have their place in the pecking order of society...and they should not cross it, it's God's will that they stay within their place. children raised with this example being played out in their early family life would make much better slaves than those independant thinkers we have now!

read some of the writings that the early feminists wrote, preferable those that describe what life was like back then for the women....
abigail adams letter written to her husband when he was busy helping for the constitutuion, pleading with him that they be kinder to the women that their forefathers were. read some of them, then come back and tell me just how we'd be better off as a soceity if women just fell back to being those submissive servants of our husbands.
at least you don't have the law backing up the idea that your husband is legal owner of your paycheck and it's his right to spend it however he likes...even if it's all spend on alchohol!
at least their isn't a belt hanging behind your door, for your husband to LEGALLY use to beat the tar out of you if you happen to make him unhappy!
at least their a little bit of a legal backing to ensure that you will make the same wage as a man that is doing the same job and not pennies on the dollar.
at least you don't have to worry about a fire starting in your factory, and you not being able to get out because the owners decided to lock the doors, so you don't go wondering off to have a good time!
do some reading, and get back to me...
because, I don't see anyway in hades where we would be better off as women, or as a society!
oh, ya, you never, ever will have to worry about your husband "renting" your son or daughter to someone hundreds of miles away as labor!

By H Makow

www.electriceggplant.com... You may find this 656 page biography worthwhile reading not simply because it connects John Adams letters to his wife Abigail Adams with the events of the American Revolution, but most of all because it reveals the heart of Abigail Adams—a brilliant writer and woman uncorrupted by feminism. If you want a model woman for your studies of what women should aspire to be—I am supremely confident that you will find Abigail is your model.

Without Abigail there would never have been a John or a John Quincy Adams. At the same time, she had strong opinions that women should someday be afforded greater respect and elevated legal rights which she forcefully advanced in letters to her husband John. I believe that women have always had such feelings and have expressed them to their husbands. Yet, in ever instance, she subordinated her wishes to the demands of her husband and her family.



[edit on 18-7-2008 by Swingarm]

Originally posted by dawnstar

what you don't seem to get...
the feminist movement began way back about the same time as they were working to free the slaves....what we refer to as communists, or socialists didn't exist back then.
and I still say, the two go hand in hand....slavery and women being considered submissive second class citizens.

well, quite honestly, slavery in the south was painted much in the same distorted light as was the whole "oppressed women issue."

yes, you had masters who were beating their slaves and treating them unfairly..... and yes, something should have been done to keep that in check, but the majority of slave owners in the south treated their slaves as employees and often even treated them BETTER than employers treat their workers these days. there many slaves that chose to fight w/ the south bc they didn't want to lose the good thing they had going.

the civil war was not about slavery as your school teachers would have you believe. slavery was used as propaganda to advocate the war against the south much as the terrorist are being used today.

were there bad slave owners? YES, just like there are terrorist today....... but the war wasn't really about the slaves.

and women were not as oppressed as some would have you believe. there are oppressed women in this society...... there always will be. but that doesn't mean that we should be "waging this war" on men as a whole.

women were not being hit over the head and drug around by rutheless men who had no care for their value. they were taken care of so that they could in turn take care of the young ones and tend to the nurturing needs of the family.

the "biblical family teaches children one thing...they have their place in the pecking order of society...and they should not cross it, it's God's will that they stay within their place. children raised with this example being played out in their early family life would make much better slaves than those independant thinkers we have now!

this pecking order is actually one of the better things in the bible so long as it is understood the meaning of this pecking order. (mind you, i am not a bible thumper, but this is a point that i whole heartedly agree w/ because it is common sense)

men may have had what you deem as more priveledges, but w/ those priveleges comes greater responsibility to society and to their families. they should be responsible for the protection and providing for the well being of their family.

next in line of command is the woman. she has less priveleges as far as duties to society (if you want to call it priveleges) but she has less responsibility as well. if she submits and trusts her man, then she has more time to tend to the personal family matters.

children are human as well, and yet as parents, we expect them to submit to our guidance and teachings bc we love them. just bc they are human doesn't mean that they should be allowed to make executive choices for the family.

the family is best run as a loving business where the husband is the boss, the wife is the manager, and the children are trainees. sounds unromantic to some, but i find it to be a highly romantic idea if done w/out resentment and with understanding.

this shouldn't mean that the woman doesn't have a voice or her desires should go untapped, but all of it should be done through order w/ the family as whole being the main consideration. many men sacrifice their dreams for their family......... just bc we are women doesn't mean that we should not be exempt from personal sacrifices.

and for the record, i think that everyone has the right to pursue whatever it is they like........ but if you are going to go out into the man's world and compete, don't complain when you are being treated like a man and not a woman.

abigail adams letter written to her husband when he was busy helping for the constitutuion, pleading with him that they be kinder to the women that their forefathers were.

she was correct in her pleas. women should be treated w/ kindness and respect, particularly from their husbands. but notice that she went through the correct "pecking order." she went to her husband w/ her pleas. her heart was not only in the right place, she went about it in a respectable manner. very commendable.

the male world is not one that we as women understand....... even in todays society and probably less in todays society.

they are competitive and interact w/ one another differently than we women do. a major problem in society is that women have pushed and pushed to be a part of this world all the while complaining about how this "world" worked.

and wow..... just realized through this that this could be the very reason why things are so screwed up out there as well as in the home. men had to work to be where they wanted to be, but the majority of women have pushed for special priveleges.

for instance..... maternity leave is flippin' ridiculous!!! if you want a baby, stay at home and commit to that child. why should a boss have to pay you when you are not doing any work for them?

our monthly visitor is imposed upon them during the work day...... i hate being around myself during this time ... can't imagine how they, having never gone through it, feel having to deal w/ it not only from their wife at home, but from the women at the work place.

what about the whole sexual harassment crap. men are just open about that stuff w/ one another..... but women come in and start "boo hooing" and suddenly their whole sacred world has been screwed up and they are not only having to compete w/ each other, compensate for the special priveleges of women, but now having to watch each and every step to make sure they don't step on the toes of some sensitive woman.

i know this sounds like i am old school and against women..... but the fact is, this isn't old school stuff and the proof is in the broken society we have as a result of women pushing themselves into an arena they don't belong in as a whole.

you want to join in it, join in...... but don't change up all the rules. want to work and be respected in the areas that were once understood to be the "male areas" then suck it up and be a man. otherwise, go home and be a woman!! we certainly could use more of them doing their intended jobs in this society!



[edit on 18-7-2008 by justamomma]

but....women were in the workforce back then also...
women have always had to work, except for the priviledged few. my grandmother worked, my mother worked, I work.
my son's wives will probably have to work, and on down the line!
but right now, at this time, considering the situation that it is....
I think it would be more postitive in this society that young girls have the expectation that they will spend a large portion of their lives earning a living, as well as society! It is quite possible that you or anyone just may find themselves in the position where you will have to shoulder that responsibility. And, if you do, would you really see it as even halfway fair if half the positions were blocked off for you, or paid you cents on the dollar compared to your male counterparts?

Oh my what a thread good job, very thought provoking!

Here's my 2 cents...

Organized "religion" through the ages...has always been about male power and domination, dominating the women, the masses, and gaining power and control and money.

It's the biggest bill of goods to ever come down the pike from time honored until now. I am not against anyone believing in a "God" or "Gods".

Religion was only made and forced on people by the winners of wars. Thought up and written by men, for men, and excluding women as secondary, mere property.

Originally posted by dawnstar
but....women were in the workforce back then also...
women have always had to work, except for the priviledged few. my grandmother worked, my mother worked, I work.
my son's wives will probably have to work, and on down the line!
but right now, at this time, considering the situation that it is....
I think it would be more postitive in this society that young girls have the expectation that they will spend a large portion of their lives earning a living, as well as society! It is quite possible that you or anyone just may find themselves in the position where you will have to shoulder that responsibility. And, if you do, would you really see it as even halfway fair if half the positions were blocked off for you, or paid you cents on the dollar compared to your male counterparts?

i understand what you are saying. my mom worked, but she stayed home w/ us up until i got into 1st grade. before that, to help the family out, she got babysitting jobs and was also a "greeter" for the city (she went and handed out pamplets or something lol). anyway, she stayed w/ and did things that were condusive to having young children. she earned my respect for doing her job as a mother.

me, i do work. i am a single mother of two boys. i have figured out how to work for myself though bc i don't see it as being fair or even productive for myself to constantly have to be called away from work for the purposes of dealing w/ school, sick children, school vacations, etc..

but i guess where i don't relate to most women these days is in the fact that recognition, money, and/or power statuses are not my end goal. my end goal is to raise productive, healthy, respectful, hard working men. they are my contribution to society. i do what i have to do even though it sometimes means personal sacrifice to be "there" for my boys in these very important years of their lives.

at the end of it all, i know i will be respected by them as their mother bc i will have done my job right. that to me is worth more than all the gold, recognition and power this world can and will offer as temptation to stray from my role as a woman. i don't need to be recognized by the world to be worth something important to the world.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by Swingarm


Are you actually gonna give your own opinion some time soon,or are you gonna just keep quoting Makow??

He's a man who thinks that all women wanna get married and have kids,he just doesn't understand that not every woman has a biological clock ticking away inside of her.This is not a new thing,its just been ignored for centuries by men like him.

The first modern feminist movement was the suffragettes,they wanted the right to vote,equality in the work place and equality in marriage.(at the time a marriage contract could leave a wife and kids with nothing if her husband died or if they were to divorce.)

reply to post by justamomma

and i am not opposed to families that have switched roles necessarily, but that is hardly a norm that succeeds.

Thats because society keeps telling us it can't,when in many cases it quite obviously can.

just because a woman CAN speak out, doesn't mean she always should. men get quiet when they are thinking things through..... women like to talk when they are thinking and thus we have all these bad ideas making their way out into the public all because we feel we have the right to be heard?

Such stereotypical views you have.

women do have that right....... but they should exercise that right to their husbands instead of the whole world.

You are your own person.You are,or in your case,were,equal to your husband.Your opinion had as much value as his.The fact that you are raising kids on your own proves this.Remember that you are a grown up,you don't need permission to do anything!

women were not being hit over the head and drug around by ruthless men who had no care for their value. they were taken care of so that they could in turn take care of the young ones and tend to the nurturing needs of the family.

There have been many times in history when this has been the case,and still is in many countries.The western world has moved on,but not so long ago,in the Victorian period,women were still seen as property of husbands,brothers and husbands (or any other male relative) and,mainly in the upper classes they were used to seal business deals,aquire wealth etc by being given in marriage.

the male world is not one that we as women understand....... even in todays society and probably less in todays society.

Really?
I'd say i have a very good understanding of it.

what about the whole sexual harassment crap. men are just open about that stuff w/ one another..... but women come in and start "boo hooing" and suddenly their whole sacred world has been screwed up and they are not only having to compete w/ each other, compensate for the special priveleges of women, but now having to watch each and every step to make sure they don't step on the toes of some sensitive woman.

One thing i actually agree on.kinda.
Sexual harassment in the work place does not run on equality.

Women have also worked for generations.If you were of the lower classes you didn't have a choice.Even the children had to be sent out to work.
The same thing happens in the modern world.One family member working can not always provide families with what they need.My mother originaly stayed at home when me and my brother were kids,my dad had 3 jobs and still couldn't make ends meet.It also wasn't good for his health and the family as he was hardly home.So my mother decided to go back to work to help lesson my dad's burden.It was the right choice....

reply to post by jakyll


I think his articles are gems. between his articles and reading justamomma's posts I really have nothing to add.
I'm sure you'd like to see his articles disappear. He speaks the truth, and many can't quite put their fingers on the whole feminist , homosexual agenda. He spells it out nicely. It has only been recently that I've begun to understand this. If you want to fill the role of a man I could care less. The problem I have is the indoctrination of young girls and boys into this clearly ***ed up way of thinking. It does zero zip nada for the welfare and the strength of the family unit.

The second point is through this movement woman have asked that their tax credits be taken from them,because they would rather be men.

Steinem suggested to women that men thought they couldn't compete as equals with them. They told them it was because they were weaker and then told them that men think women belong in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant - which was all reverse-psychology propaganda.

Woman demanded equality! Legislation was passed now you have no more tax breaks for each additional child. Woman used to net an amount equal to men and did only about 2/3 the work and were given easier jobs.

Now their equal and their children are being raised by someone else.Then on to indoctrination at public schools were they are taught more of the same. So as the years go on what we will have are a whole lot of kids in system that no longer have a loving stable family, but adults who are spoiled confused and frightened children who really don't know how to interact with the other sex except mechanically. That is if they actually get to the married stage. Many will likely have careers and sex.

Like I said it's not the individual I have a problem with it's the agenda.

BTW there is a good interview of Aaron Russo by Alex Jones, in it Aaron reveals how nick Rockefeller points out to him the whole feminism movement was basically about taxation and the break down of the family unit. here is the movie

[edit on 18-7-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 18-7-2008 by Swingarm]

reply to post by Swingarm

I'm sure you'd like to see his articles disappear. He speaks the truth,

Not really.I agree with some things he says.
But i believe his views to be very blinkered,and in some cases highly offensive.His history on feminism and homosexuality is usually incorrect,he has little understanding of it.He also fails to realize that theres more than one form of feminism.The ones he need to deal with are the extreme feminists,they even get on my nerves.They actually make it more difficult for women.

For example.
A few years ago posters of all sizes started to appear around the city.It said,"Every Man Is A Potential Rapist." My local library even had one up....until i tore it down in disgust that is.Not only is such a statement highly offensive (and incorrect) it in no way helps women.It just fuels many people's stereotypical views on feminists.

He puts the blame on women leaving the home to work etc,on the sexual revolution.This is incorrect.The first time women of the western world,in the modern era,got a taste of what it was like outside of the home was when there was war;WW1 & WW2.With no men to work in the factories,fields,garages etc,women from all the classes took over these roles and many,for the first time ever,realized their full potential.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by justamomma

 

a man cannot fill the role of woman in the same way as her. obviously he can't have kids and generally he isn't as nurturing.

Thats just an idea forced onto society.Men can be just as nuturing as women,but for so long they have been told they can't.They can also be just as good at raising kids as women can be.

actually, justmomma was being kind here. It's actually true. Females are naturally more nurturing than males. From what i've experienced, Females are definitly better at learning other languages also.
We're not the same

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by justamomma

 

and i am not opposed to families that have switched roles necessarily, but that is hardly a norm that succeeds.

Thats because society keeps telling us it can't,when in many cases it quite obviously can.

i am not hearing society saying it can't work. in fact i am hearing quite the opposite. and let me clarify, i think men should and NEED to be involved w/ their children, and whatever works for you, then keep going w/ it.

i am jsut seeing the opposite from society than you are. too different view points i guess. i see women being objectified and i see women allowing themselves to be objectified. i see women expecting to be given certain allowances in the work force that just don't seem fair to the private business owners.

i see, in society, lines being drawn that shouldn't have to be drawn. i am not anti feminist, i am very pro feminist. i don't want to have to compete w/ a man and i don't want a man to have to compete w/ me.

having to maintain both roles of parenting in right now in my life, i work very hard to keep that soft side of me intact. it is what differentiates me from a man and i am proud of that. i love the differences in men and women and as a member of society, i am sad that these lines are so quickly being erased. imo

just because a woman CAN speak out, doesn't mean she always should. men get quiet when they are thinking things through..... women like to talk when they are thinking and thus we have all these bad ideas making their way out into the public all because we feel we have the right to be heard?

Such stereotypical views you have.

i will not argue w/ what you want to call my views. i love my individuality and part of what makes me who i am is that i am a woman. i am chatty, i am emotional, i get cranky, i am a shoulder to cry on for those in my life, i am a nurturer, i am indecisive, i am passionate, i care, i am soft, i love pink , i like keeping a clean house and having things in order, i am a hard worker, i am sensitive, i don't like being expected to compete w/ men in their ways, i love wearing skirts and being "pretty," i am a mother, a daughter, a sister, an aunt, a niece, and quick to defend who i am and what makes me me. i am a stereotypical woman in every sense of the word.

women do have that right....... but they should exercise that right to their husbands instead of the whole world.

You are your own person.You are,or in your case,were,equal to your husband.Your opinion had as much value as his.The fact that you are raising kids on your own proves this.Remember that you are a grown up,you don't need permission to do anything!

i am not, nor have i disagreed w/ this. that is why i have been clarifying that women should be careful in who they choose as a life mate.

actually, i will disagree w/ you. i respect my ex's wishes to go his own way, but i have actually proven to be greater than him....... i have picked up the slack on his end in our family... but i had no choice. no doubt women will pick up the slack for men, but should they have to? he seemed to think so. he pays his "little bit of" child support monthly and gets them on SOME of his visitation days, but he speaks for this society well when he says "you have my money and every opportunity to make this work. put the kids in daycare and get to work woman!"

i am living the downside to the MODERN day feminist views; being forced to work "outside" the home, "inside" the home, and everything in btw.... yet i still do it w/ such grace and feminimity!!

my point is that if a woman wants to work, they need to abide by the rules of fairness.

women were not being hit over the head and drug around by ruthless men who had no care for their value. they were taken care of so that they could in turn take care of the young ones and tend to the nurturing needs of the family.

There have been many times in history when this has been the case,and still is in many countries.The western world has moved on,but not so long ago,in the Victorian period,women were still seen as property of husbands,brothers and husbands (or any other male relative) and,mainly in the upper classes they were used to seal business deals,aquire wealth etc by being given in marriage.

i am all for women being treated fairly and w/ respect. but how is our culture that much better off? men are getting tired of women nagging and women are now having to pick up the slack for both genders. how has this liberated me as a female? how am i liberated when everytime i turn around i am being treated by various men as a sex object when, having to maintain all the gender roles in this family, i feel like ANYTHING BUT a sex object. this is the great goal of this movement?

had i understood my role as a woman, i could have made better choices. i am still responsible for my choices, but i just would like to see both sides of the issue getting out there more.

if a woman wants to have it all and w/ the support of her husband can do that, than more power to her!! but this mentality that we CAN do it all is bs!! some can and some have......... i can not. i recognize my limitations, but i have had to learn at a VERY high cost!! i just want to see more women educated on ALL the sides of the issue.

you can make better choices for your end goal when you are better educated and able to understand your nature as a female.

the male world is not one that we as women understand....... even in todays society and probably less in todays society.

Really?
I'd say i have a very good understanding of it.

well, there ARE women out there who are more masculine. but if there were a better understanding of it, then there wouldn't be private business owners who wouldn't be forced to pay women for their non contributions to their companies. they wouldn't feel backed into corners when they wanted to hire a male over a female bc they would rather not deal w/ all the aspects of womaness (which i am hardly knocking here, but rather advocating), and there wouldn't be the major rise as there has been in women who are feeling unfulfilled even though some of them seemingly have it all money and power wise.

i am really thinking we are either living in two different societies or you are seeing things as you want to see them. reality is the great majority of women are feeling burnt out and the great majority of men are objectifying women and/or either acting aggressively toward women or submitting to their demands at a great price.


i am not trying to sound like i am down on a woman's capability. i am proud to be a woman. regardless there is a price it is costing me healthwise, just like most women bc i am having to step up to the plate where a man has failed.

the man can't blame me or women entirely, but he was raised by a hardcore feminist who is only 50ish but now looks 80ish because she HAD to do it all on her own and doesn't realize that her preaching that we CAN do it all, doesn't mean we should HAVE to do it all. thus, i am left to do it "all" minus the occasional picking up on some weekends and a VERY small amount of $$ he was ordered to pay (hardly an amount that has even put a dent into the expenses of raising two young boys).

I ADMIT MY WEAKNESS AND am not sure why that would be considered shameful. i know my strengths, but most of my strengths lie in the very fact that I AM WOMAN.......... not man and bc i am not man, i don't want to do their part, but will since i love my boys that much.








[edit on 18-7-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 18-7-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 18-7-2008 by justamomma]

ha. what a crock. most if not all religion today seems to be entirely too focused on keeping women out of power because it is actually the matriarchal seat of power that in truth founded most religion and religious practices (arguably the truer ones). i read a very good article about this once. and every knows, or should know, that most of the contortions the catholic church goes through is to hide the fact that the marys were actually the powerful ones behind jesus and to surpress that lineage. this would be really funny if it wasn't so obvious and so sad.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by justamomma

 

the male world is not one that we as women understand....... even in todays society and probably less in todays society.

Really?
I'd say i have a very good understanding of it.

I'd say that women who don't have identity issues understand the world very well. If you're a woman trying to live life through roles of a man. You should be confused. Because you'll never be one! The same goes for a guy who tries to live life through womanly roles. They'll both find that they're not quite fit for the jobs.

[edit on 7/18/2008 by JPhish]

reply to post by justamomma


yes, i am replying to my own post

i just wanted to clarify that i don't blame men for this. i blame this crusade that SOME women have gone on saying that we can do it all.

i can not handle emotionally the things that a man can handle and i personally don't resent that fact, but rather appreciate that men CAN handle the tougher side of life. i love everything about men that is their maleness (and i am not just objectifying here), and i love everything about my womanhood and i am tired of being told that bc i can sell that out, i should.

women have slacked in their responsibilities to this earth as females and men are now following suit in the name of pleasing "the almighty female."

i want respect and admiration from those around me for what i am, not what everyone else thinks i should or even can be.

men, i respect your role in this society and i for one don't want to compete w/ you in your role. yours is a tough road which is why you were designed the way you were.

i was designed w/ a different purpose in mind, obviously.

reply to post by jakyll

He puts the blame on women leaving the home to work etc,on the sexual revolution.This is incorrect.The first time women of the western world,in the modern era,got a taste of what it was like outside of the home was when there was war;WW1 & WW2.With no men to work in the factories,fields,garages etc,women from all the classes took over these roles and many,for the first time ever,realized their full potential.

It's funny because the 1st and 2nd WW can be linked back to the same characters pulling the strings of this agenda. It really is the totalitarian tip toe. You don't think woman can reach their full potential as wives and mothers? I guess it's all in how important the end result of your efforts within family are perceived. To raise a free thinking strong child should be the goal of every family yet it is getting harder to achieve this. don't you think?

Originally posted by dawnstar
Female empowerment is a cruel hoax. It flatters and lures young women with money and recognition and paints marriage and family in a dreary light. Thus many women are deprived of a lifetime of love from husband and children.

Female empowerment is a hoax? You know what, women are the majority citizen in first world countries, 52% by age 20, and closer to 60 by old age. We are majority citizens and this thread is some screwed propaganda from the bloodlines that makes me want to

This world is going forward, into proportional democracy, with women having half the seat, so we can get going on a true system of looking after our own and a high standard of living like Norway and all the Scandinavian countries. So all you cretins can put that in you pipe and smoke it. Propaganda, ugly misleading crap that should never be thought let alone spoken. The reason this ugly nazi crap ever lifted off the ground is because female energy has not been expressed properly in certain countries. The reason Scandinavian countries shine their lights so profoundly is because female energy is blended equally with mens. If you really think women intend to repress their energies to not feel lonely, think again. Too many of us have caretaken some abusive male folk and we prefer our own power and company to the crap your peddling.


I can see who is working for certain people. But this is my warning to all the shadow folk and their minions: Now you've angered woman, now you've touched stone, now you will be crushed!!!! Zulu Woman Warrior quote.





[edit on 18-7-2008 by mystiq]