Chemtrail education thread

I find it hard to believe that the "Chemtrail" conspiracy is as vast as some would have you believe. It cannot be ignored however, that the British government has admitted using such tactics in the past.

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told...

One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.

Source.

[edit on 9/10/07 by Implosion]

Originally posted by Copernicus

Why dont you guys even look??

Because they only ever show the perfectly normal process of hot exhaust gasses condensing moisture in cold air...

But you be carful watching those video's ok... don't forget to wear your tinfoil hat.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by JimmyBlonde]

reply to post by Copernicus


Watched it. It's a digital zoom. Not exactly a close-up. And what's with the red-herrings about contrails only forming at the wingtip vortices? What about the water vapour formed from combustion in the engines? Which also happens to be what the video shows...

Oh well. Ive tried to show the truth as I see it. Now its up to each person to believe or disbelieve.

Thank you for your posts.

Why is it that most people that post a thread about contrails/ chemtrails use mostly just pictures and videos as their backup evidence. Just wondering how that justifies a government coverup?

Originally posted by Copernicus
reply to post by RogerT

 

There are plenty of videos of close up chemtrails and planes. Here is one.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Sorry Copernicus, I'm with Beachcoma on this one. This is a poor quality digital zoom on a home vid camera. I got similar footage on mine.

I was suggesting that the hard core investigators [you know, the type that travels around looking for the Chemtrails] actually rent or borrow some professional equipment and a tripod, and get some real damning evidence.

Surely, given the supposed frequency of chemtrail occurence, this shouldn't be so difficult.

Originally posted by Implosion
It cannot be ignored however, that the British government has admitted using such tactics in the past.

I don't think that anyone denies that chemical spraying operations have taken place in the past, nor that some may even take place today.

However there is nothing to connect such operations with the current proliferation of persistent high altitude contrails over large parts of the Earth every day of the year.

ok who here is actually a meterologist? and has been for decades? cuz if you have been studying them for years then thats credible. who here is a pilot? i am a private pilot, my friend is an aviation mechanic. as far as i know, with the technology put into planes, they dont produce that much exhaust. as a matter of fact, new planes dont even have a trail. thats on the smaller sized planes though, yet i know the tech is available for commercial airliners. try this, look up at the sky, and see what all planes have a trail. some do, some dont. whys that? BTW wouldnt it be easy to discredit a chemtrail by calling it a persistant contrail? theres enough carcinogens and whatever else in processed foods, its no wonder a majority of the pop. dies from cancer.

Originally posted by Implosion
I find it hard to believe that the "Chemtrail" conspiracy is as vast as some would have you believe. It cannot be ignored however, that the British government has admitted using such tactics in the past.

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told...

One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.

Source.

[edit on 9/10/07 by Implosion]

Unfortunately, Antony Barnett's Guardian article (which incidentally used my research) didn't include the vital piece of information that these experiments, most of which were done to investigate Porton Down's Large Area Coverage concept, were conducted at altitudes between 400 and 1200 feet asl.

Below are extracts from two separate CDEE Porton Down Programme Reports which confirm that these BW field trials were conducted at low altitude- in the case of the second document, an altitude of 400 feet asl.

These reports were produced for two separate series of CDEE Porton Down's Zinc Cadmium sulphide (ZnCds) Biological Warfare experiments. The first concerns a series of BW field trials, conducted in August 1960, which used the city of Salisbury as the target area; the second series, conducted in 1963-64, used the city of Norwich as the target area.







As the following CDEE Porton Down map indicates, each ZnCds field trial involved the spraying of large parts of the UK.



To have conducted these field trials at higher altitudes would have prevented the ZnCds from reaching its target - the ground level sampling devices. The later LAC Biological Warfare experiments, which exposed millions of UK residents to massive aerosols of live bacteria, were conducted at even lower altitudes.

BTW, even at such low altitudes, military scientists from Porton Down proved in these experiments that a single sortie by a single ship, aircraft or submarine could contaminate an area of over 10,000 square miles with an apreciable dose of viable bacteria.


At no time did Porton Down ever spray BW simulants (e.g. ZnCds, Xenon 133, or live bacteria such as E.coli MRE162 or Bacillus globigii) at an altitude greater than 1,500 ft asl.

So, although its correct to say that MOD scientists have in the past used the UK as a giant outdoor laboratory for their numerous large-scale BW experiments (over 320 and rising) - the existence of these Cold War experiments hasn't really much to do with the chemtrails question except to prove that some scientists have very dodgy ethics.


zero lift

I still encourage people to continue looking into this. I personally believe this to be happening right now. And yes, I respect other opinions, Im just worried I am right. And so far, nobody has posted anything that changes my mind im afraid.

Trusting NASA and the US government is madness with their track record.


[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Just a question - on days when there are loads of contrails that condense into clouds - when it rains, is it like normal rainwater or is it full of bad stuff like exhaust fumes etc.?

Exactly which chemicals are present in your proposed Chem-trails?

In what quantities and which lab's were used in the study?

Who conducted the research and what are their qualifications?

What methods were used to gather the data?

Which independent labs were used to verify the voracity of the data?

Which aircraft are being used to do this spraying of chemicals?

Are they just Military or are Civilian Aircraft involved?

If the Airlines are involved, why are they participating and how was it established they are involved?

How do the Airlines benefit if they are involved and how does it increase their profits in the future?

If this is true where are the participants testimony to this fact?

What delivery method is used and where are the photographs of the systems used?

Who manufactures these systems and where are they installed?

Who produces the chemicals used and where are they manufactured?

What testimony do you have from the pilots and crews of these aircraft and what are their names so they can be contacted?

What medical studies established the dangerous nature of Chem-trails?

Which medical labs conducted the studies on the harmful effects of Chem-trails?

Who was in charge of these studies and what is their background and qualifications?

I think you will need to answer at least a few of these questions to confirm your theory. In particular independent studies done on the precise content of Chem-trails and their effects. Since I have an old cheap Camcorder with a 22 power optical zoom sitting in a drawer that I paid $50 for used; I'm fairly sure a proponent of Chem-trails could manage to borrow one and take a close up of the aircraft. So why is it nobody seems to be willing to do that?

Originally posted by wigit
Just a question - on days when there are loads of contrails that condense into clouds - when it rains, is it like normal rainwater or is it full of bad stuff like exhaust fumes etc.?

I'm being serious here.

I put a glass out in the rain one day, unobstructed by anything.

It was clean. I made sure. When there was an inch of water in the glass, I noticed white/gray strands, filaments floating in the water. I got another, different glass, same thing happened.

Morgellons causing? who knows.

It scared me.

A little off course but amusing to me, in another forum here, Aliens & UFOs for example we always hear the typical "All they have is stories, theories and so called personal experience, where are the pictures and videos?" Then in this thread I read that all the person has is pictures and videos for evidence, but lacks anything else to support their argument.

There will always be skeptics on both sides, I for one am not sold on chemtrails existing or being contrails. But I'm not sold mainly because in all the examples I have seen personally, there hasn't been a one that completely closed the case for me.

I live near an international airport and so I see alot of air traffic scarring the skies around here, but I am not 100% sure that all I see is contrails.

Interesting about leaving the glass out when it rained, I think I may do that if I remember it.

reply to post by HaTaX


The difference is that Contrails are not a mystery and are well studied for environmental reasons. Photo's of contrails are easy to take especially near a Military Base or Major Airport. If the same abundance of clear photo's and data were available for UFO's it would not be a mystery and would instead be a study of a known phenomenon. University's would have department devoted to ET affairs. If UFO evidence were to exist in a verifiable form the University's would be all over it. They hate the Government and secrecy.

Originally posted by jmilla
as far as i know, with the technology put into planes, they dont produce that much exhaust. as a matter of fact, new planes dont even have a trail.

Incorrect.

A Boeing 757 engine on climbout will suck in more air than a Human will breath in his / her entire life. Climbout N2 turbine and N1 fan speeds are not dramatically reduced in climbcruise compared to climbout, and given a Bypass ratio of 4.3 to one, that's means 23 percent of the air getting sucked into the engine goes through the core of the engine, with an exhaust temperature of 400 degrees Centergrate.

That is a lot of air behind heated to 400 degrees, and a 757 has two of them. The water vapor in the air emerges into the minus 60 degrees outside after it had been heading to 400 degrees inside a jetengine and turns into water droplets and molecules.

What happens to water droplets at minus 60 degrees Celcius? They freeze. Does Ice magically disapear at minus 60 degrees? No.

planes have a trail. some do, some dont. whys that?

Some airplanes cruise at low altitudes where it is not minus sixty degrees outside nor anywhere close to it therefore there won't be any trails. Some trails may be shorter compared to others even if they're close. Why? Because the water vapour may disipate before it turns into ice which depends on weather conditions, which are again dependant on altitude.

To all 'Chemmies', if Chemtrails only happened past 1990 then please explain this:
]


I'm sure Defcon 5 won't mind me posting these.... thanks to him.

Mission: STS-009
Location: France, N/A Lat, N/A Long
Date: 1983, N/AGMT
Features: Clouds, Many Contrails


Mission: STS-027
Location: Atlantic Ocean, 56.9 Lat, -41.9 Long
Date: 12/05/1988, 160526GMT
Features: Contrails, Pack Ice


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z194/defcon05/STS027-31-6.jpg[/ats]

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...
Using this SCIENCE, I can make Contrails last forever.

Why does I see racetrack circles in the sky?

Because aircraft follow racetrack patterns in holding patterns. For example, if you've been instructed to decent via HELNS4 and the weather is bad, traffic busy, if you went missed approach, go'd around, or just instructed by ATC, you would be told to hold at HELNS navaid. How do all planes which fly this holding do it in the same path? Modern planes have a Flight Management computer which has a database of all Standard Terminal ARrival procedures, in this case, HELNS4. The pilot basically selects one then presses the NAV (or Lateral NAV) button on the autopilot and it will follow the predetermined course exactly.

Also note that a large amount of aircraft flying into Portland will be flying the same route, therefore it's possible that the many planes may fly the same route arebeing mistaken for the same plane... and wind may also blow a Contrail to the... say... West. Another aircraft will fly the same arrival procedure laying down another contrail which will also be blown to the west... eventaully you'll have many lines of persistant contrails accross the sky.

This effect also happens all the time, aircraft that fly from, say.... Sanfransisco to Seattle may fly a route of 'SFO8 RBL J1 BTG OLM5'. The aircraft that take off from Sanfran will depart via SFO8 Standard Instrument Departure, fly north to RBL (Redbluff) Follow Jetway 1 to BTG (Battleground, right over Portland) then decend via Olympia (right over Olympia city) five. Every single airliner in the sky navigates by flying over fixes to make up a route such as the one above, and I'm sure a large amount of planes, in any city, in any country, fly the same departure and arrival procedures... and they also will fly over the same waypoints.

A huge amount of proclaimed 'Chemtrail' photos show aircraft flying over the same fix, and they also show many aircraft flying the same route, which may lay down persistant Contrails into the sky with winds blowing them accross the sky, forming what appears to be clouds.


Take a look at the above picture... notice many planes are flying in the same direction pretty bunched up? Well, let's say they're all in weather condition which allows persistant contrails to form, and let's say there's a strong wind at that altitude (I've encountered winds of over 100 knots at 35000 feet).

In a day, South West airlines for example, has 512 planes with 1600 departures daily with only 64 destinations. The full size of the whole American fleet is many times bigger than that. It's no freaken wonder the sky is filled with Contrails.

So barium in the atmosphere enhances HAARP effects. Do the chemtrails contain Barium? You bet. Here is one page about it: Barium in chemtrails and its effects to our immune system and other things (and pictures of chemtrails)

The only problem with that is, A, that article could of been written by anyone and any agenda. B, if they were persistant like everyone tells us they are, then itobviously isn't falling very fast... 10 feet per minute? That's going to take AAAGGEESSS to hit the ground no matter how you put it, it's NOT going to land on the area it's sprayed over. It's going to land a very long distance downwind.



[edit on 10/10/07 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

If you find weird stuff in the air, look upwind, not to persistant Contrails which are not only scientifically proven but have been happening since... a very long time ago, preceding world war two. If you research World War two and Chemtrails, you'll even find B-17 pilots seeing there persistant Contrails still left over from other raids hours or maybe even days ago.

I understand persistant Contrails are an eyesore, and infact, they may even influence weather. There's a thread on that. But the notion that it's harp, persistant contrails hasn't happened since 1990, and so on and so forth, is simply rediculous.

Originally posted by jmilla
ok who here is actually a meterologist? and has been for decades? cuz if you have been studying them for years then thats credible. who here is a pilot? i am a private pilot, my friend is an aviation mechanic. as far as i know, with the technology put into planes, they dont produce that much exhaust.

So you know how an aerofoil works then.

It creates a difference in airpressure by moving forward through the air.

Moisture in the atmosphere condenses when:

a) Pressure drops

b) Temperature drops


It doesn't have to change dramaitcally, only enough to cause condensation which varies depending on the atmospheric conditions at the time.

Mini contrails form along the wings of fighter/aerobatic aircraft undercertain conditions. The more efficient the Aerofoil the more likely that it will cause a big enough drop in pressure to condense any moisture in the atmosphere.

Sometimes it is windy upstairs and the contrails don't last very long.

Sometimes it is very still and cold and they stay for ages.

Sometimes atmospheric pressure drops and if there is enough moisture they grow into long clouds.

There is nothing to suggest that they are used to deliver chemicals of any kind because none of this vapour ever touches the ground. Given that most people spend a lot of there time on the ground and not at 24,000 ft it would seem unlikely that spraying stuff out of airliners would be an effective method of contaminating a population.

Here are some more likely methods.

a) Crop dusting aircraft

b) Fire fighting aircraft

c) Contamination of resevoirs

d) Contamination of bottled drinks

(Note to self, should have sold Coca Cola Amatil shares before stating point 'd')

Originally posted by jmilla
ok who here is actually a meterologist? and has been for decades? cuz if you have been studying them for years then thats credible.

Ozweather is a professional meteorologist. I'm only an amateur although I have good friends who are professionals (working at UK Met Office, BBC Weather Centre and Meteogroup) and am also in regular correspondence with a number of climate scientists.

I've posted numerous links to studies carried out over the past 30 years into the way in which aircraft contrails spread out to form sheets of high level cloud and their impact on climate and weather - which comprehensively dispprove the allegation that such phenomena only started in the 1990s.

Originally posted by jmilla
ok who here is actually a meterologist? and has been for decades? cuz if you have been studying them for years then thats credible.

Ozweather is a professional meteorologist. I'm only an amateur although I have good friends who are professionals (working at UK Met Office, BBC Weather Centre and Meteogroup) and am also in regular correspondence with a number of climate scientists.

I've posted numerous links to studies carried out over the past 30 years into the way in which aircraft contrails spread out to form sheets of high level cloud and their impact on climate and weather - which comprehensively dispprove the allegation that such phenomena only started in the 1990s.