Chemtrail education thread

Ok, it seems some folks on this forum actually believe the chemtrails are a natural phenomenon. I dont know why, but I decided to start a new thread trying to fix this misconception.

There are plenty of videos of close up chemtrails and planes. Here is one.

Here is them spraying New York for a day: link

The following video shows you the difference between contrails and chemtrails. Contrails disappears quickly from the sky, while chemtrails do not.

Video: Owning the Weather - The secret agenda of atmospheric manipulation. All chemtrail documentation in the this film was shot in the skies of South-Eastern New York and Western Connecticut between December ' 06 and March ' 07.

Declassified Air Force document about chemtrails: Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025. The USAF denies this to be an actual program going on, despite chemtrails being obvious in the skies around the world.

The Space Preservation Act of 2001 was introduced on the floor of the House of Representatives by Dennis Kucinich and was an attempt to legislate the use of certain types of advanced weaponry, and not surprisingly, did not pass. This bill talks about chemtrails as a chemical weapon, as well as "biological", "electromagnetic" and "tectonic" weapons.

There is also a connection to HAARP.

It has also been proposed to release large clouds of barium in
the magnetosphere so that photoionization will increase the cold
plasma density, thereby producing electron precipitation through
enhanced whistler-mode interaction.

Source: United States HAARP Patent

So barium in the atmosphere enhances HAARP effects. Do the chemtrails contain Barium? You bet. Here is one page about it: Barium in chemtrails and its effects to our immune system and other things (and pictures of chemtrails)

The Hopi Prophecies include the ancient prediction that "as the Day of Purification approaches, cobwebs will criss-cross the sky."


Indeed it is.


[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus
To start off with, this video will show you the difference between contrails and chemtrails. Contrails disappears quickly from the sky, while chemtrails do not.

I don't know where you got that idea. Persistent contrails exist and has been researched by meteorologist for a very long time.

Link to 70s research paper on Contrail Effects on Thermal Radiation Budget



Just type the keywords "persistent contrails" and do a Google Scholar search on it, you'll turn up a hell lot of results.

Not saying that chemtrails are impossible, but so far almost all photos of alleged chemtrails that I see are nothing but contrails + overactive imagination +bandwagon effect.

reply to post by Beachcoma


Oh come on. First of all that paper is from 1970 before chemtrails even existed in the skies, so while it talks about contrails staying for a while in the air, it does not mean lasting days.

There are plenty of videos showing airplanes making x-shaped chemtrails in the skies. The video I linked shows it too. Its not a natural sight in the skies, and you should know this naturally unless you are very young and havent seen anything else.

I have tried to back the pictures up with evidence from chemical analysis and government documents as well, just to show you that the government talks about chemtrails as a weapon too. Just to add credibility to what I am saying.


[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus


So chemtrails last for days then?

Anyway the point I was trying to make is that prior to the internet, I've not heard a single word about chemtrails. It was only after the internet made it possible for stuff to gain a life of it's own that this meme started gaining currency, hence my point about it being contrails + overactive imagination + the bandwagon effect. Now suddenly every bloody contrail out there is a chemtrail. That's really annoying. And that's a prime example of the bandwagon effect.

If you re-read my post, I didn't say it was impossible, though I did imply that it's highly improbable. Do you know how many people would be involved in such an effort? Keeping this sort of thing under wraps would be a near impossible task. If the chemtrail people really wanted to impress me, they'd hook a telescope up to a video camera and give a close-up shot of the plane spraying the chemicals. From afar all the videos I've seen just look like regular contrail formation.

I grew up near airports, so contrails do not impress me. I've seen all shapes and sizes, those that are parallel, those that criss-cross each other, even some persistent trails lasting from one evening to the next morning. There might even be those lasting for days but I never really took much notice of them nor did I make an effort to record it. It's just condensation trails.

As for your video, my connection is a bit slow now, still downloading it -- it's only a third done so far. I'm only going to play it after it's done. Then I'll comment on those x-trails you mentioned.

You know what? I just had an epiphany. Occam gave me a bitch-slap.

Don't you think it's kind of a strange coincidence that "chemtrails" started gaining prominence at around the same time low-cost carriers started operating everywhere?

Put the two together everything starts to make sense. Budget airlines enable more people to fly. More people flying means more planes in the sky. More planes in the sky means more contrail formations. More contrail formations mean more people start noticing, more criss-cross pattern, more contrails, period.

Combined with the fact that the internet also started at about the same time low-cost carriers began operating, you've have with you a recipe for a meme that will spread like wildfire.

[edit on 9-10-2007 by Beachcoma]

reply to post by Beachcoma


You can check the link to the pictures I posted as well in my original post. Surely you recognize most of those as very strange to you if you are used to seeing clouds.

Its fine to be a skeptic, but not unreasonably so. Ive already shown the government documents talking about this technology and we see these things in the sky very often. They show up on satellite pictures as well. Look into it and you will see. This is not a bandwagon effect to me at all.

And its not really a cover up since its there in the sky for everybody to see, but they have a cover story - that its used to combat global warming.

And your theory about more people flying doesnt hold water. Contrails from passenger planes still doesnt stick around for a long time like these do, and they do not contain barium and other poisonous chemicals.




[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

To start off with, this video will show you the difference between contrails and chemtrails. Contrails disappears quickly from the sky, while chemtrails do not.

Not true. And repeating it ten thousand times won't make it become true either We've known for decades that contrails can persist for hours and on occasion spread out and eventually form a sheet of cirrostratus covering the whole sky. As shown in the paper Beachcoma linked to.

The Space Preservation Act of 2001 was introduced on the floor of the House of Representatives by Dennis Kucinich and was an attempt to legislate the use of certain types of advanced weaponry, and not surprisingly, did not pass. This bill talks about chemtrails as a chemical weapon, as well as "biological", "electromagnetic" and "tectonic" weapons.

It's been represented time and time again, although the imaginary sci fi weapons listed in the first draft were quickly dropped. It last failed to get passed in 2005.

There is also a connection to HAARP.

Except 'chemtrails' only appear in the troposhere, miles lower than the ionosphere which HAARP was set up to study .... Heating of the ionosphere by solar activity may have a small effect on weather patterns over the following weeks (although this is highly disputed and no proper study has been carried out to my knowledge - in most cases claims of increased cyclonic activity following CMEs appear to be coincidental)

The Hopi Prophecies include the ancient prediction that "as the Day of Purification approaches, cobwebs will criss-cross the sky."

So they predicted the huge proliferation of air travel in the late 20th and 21st centuries.


For some real education on chemtrails try reading this website: contrailscience.com... If afterwards you have any questions, feel free to ask. There are a number of us on ATS with genuine meteorological and aviation knowledge/experience who can help

Originally posted by Essan
For some real education on chemtrails try reading this website: contrailscience.com... If afterwards you have any questions, feel free to ask. There are a number of us on ATS with genuine meteorological and aviation knowledge/experience who can help

Naah, im not much into disinformation sites.

ContrailScience.com is just a place where I write about contrails and science - which also includes some looking at the “chemtrails” theory, and pseudoscience.

[email protected]

But by all means, believe it if you want.


[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus

You can check the link to the pictures I posted as well in my original post. Surely you recognize most of those as very strange to you if you are used to seeing clouds.

No, not strange if you're used to seeing clouds

They show up on satellite pictures as well.

Indeed they do

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

Using satellites is the best way to study the extent of persistent contrails and help us determine their impact on the weather and climate.

And your theory about more people flying doesn't hold water. Contrails from passenger planes still doesn't stick around for a long time like these do, and they do not contain barium and other poisonous chemicals.

As I said, we've known that contrails from passenger aircraft can stick around for a long time for decades. And I regularly watch just that happen. However, there is no evidence any of these contrails contain anything over than ice particles and various chemicals produced by normal jet engine combustion.

There is of course no question that these persistent contrails are a problem. For example:

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Essan
Indeed they do

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

Using satellites is the best way to study the extent of persistent contrails and help us determine their impact on the weather and climate.

Yes, and using NASA to say chemtrails are really contrails is the best way to get some people to believe there is nothing to worry about.

Remember this is a US government project. The Air Force also says they have nothing to do with chemtrails. Not very credible at all.


[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Beachcoma
reply to post by Copernicus

 

If the chemtrail people really wanted to impress me, they'd hook a telescope up to a video camera and give a close-up shot of the plane spraying the chemicals. From afar all the videos I've seen just look like regular contrail formation.

You have to admit, Beachcoma has a bloody good point there. Conspiracists have been studying this for years, and there are hundreds if not thousands of videos out there and they are never close ups - hell, I even took some of my own footage. Now why didn't I think to hook up to a telescope? Probably 'cos I'm not a serious chemtrail researcher - but if i was ...

Originally posted by Copernicus
Its fine to be a skeptic, but not unreasonably so. Ive already shown the government documents talking about this technology and we see these things in the sky very often. They show up on satellite pictures as well. Look into it and you will see. This is not a bandwagon effect to me at all.

And its not really a cover up since its there in the sky for everybody to see, but they have a cover story - that its used to combat global warming.

Unreasonable? I've already said earlier that "chemtrails" aren't impossible. I'm not going to rehash everything I have typed out. If you want to believe so much that you can call me an "unreasonable sceptic" for pointing out some simpler explanation that are within reason, well I can't help you and this discussion is moot.

One more thing, combating global warming as a cover story? That's a lame cover. The research suggests that contrails do the opposite. Global dimming does not equal global cooling.

Originally posted by Copernicus

Remember this is a US government project. The Air Force also says they have nothing to do with chemtrails. Not very credible at all.

Trouble is, all the world's meteorologists and atmospheric scientists say the same - indeed huge sums of money are being spent looking into the effects of these contrails and ways to reduce them ..... and they've been doing so for decades.

How long has the conspiracy been going on for (at least since the 1950s); how many millions of people are involved?

reply to post by Essan


Well it would have to be several million, including myself I guess as I work in the weather industry

Oh crap, does this mean I am a disinfo agent?

Quick, better start a new thread on me!

reply to post by Essan


Well of course they are, since they are not aware of chemtrails or think its just a conspiracy theory. So they think they know what they see in the sky is contrails.

Its the same with UFO's really. Some people see ice crystals where other people see space ships. It doesnt matter if this "ice crystal" seem intelligent, because its just a coincidence that it moves that specific way...

All this constant disinformation have gotten people to doubt themselfs. They no longer think they are able to judge for themselfs what they see. They need to go ask the scientists. And guess what they say, in order to not demolish their reputation and credibility...

And your stuff about 1950 is also disinformation. These chemtrails showed up around 1999, where people clearly noticed these things in the sky as something extraordinary. In the last couple of years, it has gotten worse and worse. And now people like you are believing it to be natural...


[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Beachcoma
One more thing, combating global warming as a cover story? That's a lame cover. The research suggests that contrails do the opposite.

Yes, it shows how little proper research the chemtrail believers have actually done!

It's a shame some people can't be just a tad more sceptical - instead of accepting whatever they first get told and then dismissing out of hand everything that disproves it ....


Of course, if there are real chemical spraying projects, how better to divert attention than by making people argue over common-or-garden contrails ?

reply to post by Copernicus


Contrails have been around for a lot longer than 1999, and the reason why it appears worse is because the air traffic is a lot heavier than it used to be. And the whole global warming thing is BS, its more likely to cause global cooling (or global dimming)

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by Beachcoma
reply to post by Copernicus

 

If the chemtrail people really wanted to impress me, they'd hook a telescope up to a video camera and give a close-up shot of the plane spraying the chemicals. From afar all the videos I've seen just look like regular contrail formation.

You have to admit, Beachcoma has a bloody good point there. Conspiracists have been studying this for years, and there are hundreds if not thousands of videos out there and they are never close ups - hell, I even took some of my own footage. Now why didn't I think to hook up to a telescope? Probably 'cos I'm not a serious chemtrail researcher - but if i was ...

It's probably really bad form to quote yourself, but this is one of those cases where the simple common sense point seems to be being ignored whilst the intricate argument rages on.

Why has no-one yet photographed or video'd a close up?

I'm not any kind of expert on telecopes. Would a close up actually reveal anything?

reply to post by RogerT


There are plenty of videos of close up chemtrails and planes. Here is one.

Here is them spraying new york for a day: link

Yes, people will claim that all of a sudden, the weather got cloudy. Thats bullcrap. This is like 9/11 and anything else - some people just refuse to see what happens.



[edit on 9-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus

And your stuff about 1950 is also disinformation. These chemtrails showed up around 1999, where people clearly noticed these things in the sky as something extraordinary. In the last couple of years, it has gotten worse and worse. And now people like you are believing it to be natural...

Well technically they're not natural, they're clearly manmade.

The question is: why are you so adamant that they only started appearing in 1999 despite the fact that meteorologists have been studying them for decades?

If someone told you on a website that elephants first appeared on earth in 1966 would you believe them? Would you dismiss all previous evidence of elephants prior to 1966 as being some other animal?

The only thing that happened in the mid 1990s (I think around 1995/6) is that someone decided to make up a theory about persistent contrails. Maybe they genuinely hadn't noticed them before, I don't know. They obviously didn't bother to check out meteorological research though. The advent of the internet meant it developed into a sort of viral folk myth that has perpetuated itself ever since. I still wonder if maybe the theory was developed as a test to see how quickly a logically inconsistent (and readily disproveable) idea could be spread and how many would fall for it .....