The Disease of Mindless Patriotism, My Thoughts

reply to post by FredT


Ain't that the truth.


I have an old black Honda Helix scooter that I get around on. To make it more visible I have on both sides these large tie dyed style peace frogs and on the back I had a large reflective peace sign and a coexist bumper sticker and a round like is good sticker. Also on the door to my house I had another peace frog and 2 bumper stickers, one that read... What if the hurdy gurdy is what its all about? and the other had a quote from Oscar Wilde that read... "America is the only country in the world that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

Well yesterday this woman was observed ripping the stickers off my scooter and today I caught her ripping them off my door. When I confronted her about it she shouted at me that those stickers were anti American and unpatriotic and offensive to her so she was removing them. When I pointed out that she had no right to do that; and that I could, if I desired, file a complaint against her for defacing my property; and if I caught her at it again, I would. She ran away screaming that I was a traitor.

I suspect this is the same person who has taped religious tracts over my kitchen window to cover a "War is not the answer" sign I have (safely) inside my window. As if objecting to war was somehow anti-Christian and marking me as someone who need saving.

This woman is obviously deranged but at the same time it is that type of patriotism that cannot tolerate any difference of opinion, that I object to, and is also unfortunately rampant in the country.



[edit on 10-10-2007 by grover]

One Notion, Under God

Originally posted by grover
This woman is obviously deranged but at the same time it is that type of patriotism that cannot tolerate any difference of opinion, that I object to, and is also unfortunately rampant in the country.

That has nothing to do with patriotism, and everything to do with mental illness.

I recommend reporting all of this to the police, not just for your protection, but for hers as well.

reply to post by grover

Originally posted by grover
This woman is obviously deranged but at the same time it is that type of patriotism that cannot tolerate any difference of opinion, that I object to, and is also unfortunately rampant in the country.



[edit on 10-10-2007 by grover]

As pointed out, this is an example of mental illness, and not "Patriotism Gone Wild". It could just as easily be classified as excessive religious zeal, but the manifestation of the illness is not as key as the actual root cause of her eccentricity.

As for this behavior being "rampant" in this country, well, I disagree with that assessment. There are bound to be a certain number of cases in a population of 300 million +, but it is by no means "rampant".

When I used the word deranged... I did not mean actually mentally ill. There are many ways of being deranged... being fanatical about something is one, and that is what I meant.

At the same time when I said it was rampant in this country I meant specifically the attitude that if you do not believe a certain way, or behave a certain way you can be harassed.

Is being fanatical and/or harassing people because they are or think differently than you patriotism? Of course not it isn't... but there are a lot of people who think it is.

[edit on 11-10-2007 by grover]

The Disease of Mindless Patriotism, My Thoughts

This thread has been an excellent read, and the OP was very well written and thought provoking.

However, I don't see the point of what really comes down to be nothing but a discussion on some pet peeve aimed at certain people. There are extremist in patriotism as well as religion and always will be. I understand the purpose of the thread is to try to open the minds of the mindless patriot, but even if it does, SO WHAT? What will this accomplish? Nothing because you are wasting your efforts on an unwinnable front.

We all know the country has been overtaken by corporate greed and the neocons are running the show, but these guys are the real enemy, not the mindless patriot or I would prefer the blind patriot. However misguided you may think they are, they are also American and therefore our brothers and sisters.

This discussion reminds me of people who go out of their way to help a complete stranger on the street, yet they go home and can't get along with members of their own family.

reply to post by Hal9000


I agree, HAL9000. And as I said, an unfortunate side effect of this is to re-define the word patriotism to give it negative connotations and thus make some people reluctant to be proud of their patriotism.

reply to post by magicmushroom



Patriotism can never be blind. What you all are refering to would once upon a time have been called "superpatriotism", this word seems to have fallen out of usage for some strange reason. It describes the blind patriotism you all are railing against.

I am a patriot, I love my country, I think it is the finest in all the world. Do I see that it has a number of faults, of course, I'm a patriot, not blind. So if rail you must, rail against the "superpatriot", not me and others like me.

reply to post by grover



That chick is obviously mentally unstable. To use her as an example of the "superpatriot" is wrong.

I think (as a conservative christian) to deny the degeneration at high levels within our country, is to be willfully ignorant!
I had my eyes opened to the lies in our somewhat conservative media.I can't watch Fox news much anymore(The lies!)
Believe you me, I voted for W, and I thought we were headed for a renewed America, when his administration was in.
The Illegal Alien surge, the NSA, the Free Speech zones!
I knew how bad slick willy was, but I think it's silly how we 'back' any republican, no matter what.
How much difference is there, really between parties?
There are some on both sides, who I don't think are money hungry, pedophiles.
We have to pray to God. He is our protecter of this country.

Seagul does that mean you support your goverments lust for global control, the war in Iraq,etc. The murder of your own citizens, all the lies and deceit or do you mean America has nice countryside and beaches.

reply to post by magicmushroom


I did say, didn't I, that I'm not blind to its faults. I have issues with the gov't. policies concerning many things not least of which is the war on terror. My stake in that little excursion into madness is very personal, my brother is currently in Iraq as we speak. I'd much rather he wasn't.

At the risk of being repetitive, I'll say again that what you all are railing against used to be called a "superpatriot". My understanding of that term is that a superpatriot believes that his/her country can never, ever be wrong. A patriot believes that his/her country, while a really cool place, does occasionally screw the pooch in a big way.

reply to post by magicmushroom

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Seagul does that mean you support your goverments lust for global control, the war in Iraq,etc. The murder of your own citizens, all the lies and deceit or do you mean America has nice countryside and beaches.

Not to answer for Seagull, but most parents do not stop loving their children when they are sick or when they go astray. You stick with them and try to make them better.

To stop loving your country because it has a few faults (and all countries have faults ) would be acting like a Fair Weather Patriot.

reply to post by seagull


Was she? I don't know but her behavior really was no different than the people who shouted obscenities and threw eggs at those of us who stood publicly in protest in the lead up to this war. Or for that matter, those who threatened the Dixie Chicks for speaking their minds, as is their right, or any other example like that.

Am I trying to give patriotism a bad name? No not at all. Behavior like these do.

reply to post by grover


Those people were just as wrong as the people who accuse those like me of being blind sheep. I can love my country and be no more blind to its faults than the next person. I have issues with many of the gov'ts policies just as you do, not the same issues mind you, but never the less I do have issues.

I'll say it again...those people were wrong, without a doubt. Disagree with you? Surely. That's their right, as it's yours to disagree with them. But peacefully. You and I probably disagree on many topics, save one...the ideas we espouse should be discussed peacefully.

One of the problems I see with blind "superpatriotism" is that those that subscribe to that ideology are prone to violence in the name of patriotism thus excusing themselves of moral responsibility.

Of course being spurred on by the likes of Rush, Savage, Hannity and countless others doesn't help. Their encouragement of violence against those that they don't agree with is subtle, but real never the less.

Superpatriotism, as with any unthinking fanaticism is a mental illness and needs to be delt with in a clinical manner until the violence line is crossed; then it should be a legal matter.

reply to post by seagull


I agree whole heartedly as the old adage goes..."I may disagree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

An adage that is in sore need of remembrance and practice today.

reply to post by whaaa

Originally posted by whaaa
One of the problems I see with blind "superpatriotism" is that those that subscribe to that ideology are prone to violence in the name of patriotism thus excusing themselves of moral responsibility.

Of course being spurred on by the likes of Rush, Savage, Hannity and countless others doesn't help. Their encouragement of violence against those that they don't agree with is subtle, but real never the less.

Superpatriotism, as with any unthinking fanaticism is a mental illness and needs to be delt with in a clinical manner until the violence line is crossed; then it should be a legal matter.

I have never heard Rush or Sean advocate violence against those they disagree with, and I don't think you have either. Michael Savage, well he's a fruitcake imo.

I think you should retract your dishonest statement about Limbaugh and Hannity.

And while you're at it, remember the examples we see of left-wing violence against those they disagree with. Such as the students at Columbia U, who shouted down Jim Gilchrist and then mobbed the stage when he attempted to speak there.

reply to post by Operation AJAX


patriotic-----i am to the point that when i was working for the canadian military-----and still now that i am retiring and using up my years accumulated leave-----if i came across someone or an organization that was trying to harm our people-------i mean the white english speaking and jewish people-----i'd report them to the authorities in the blink of an eye.but nowdays i wonder what good that would do or if i would be taken seriously considering that i have tried to already and been laughed at by the authorities over a theft ring big time on the last base i served at.as far as our people trying to bring pres.gw bushes democracy to iraq or afghanistan i'm sorry----i'm not patriotic about this----its an obvious waste of time/lives and money----------those people practice a religion that worships death as its god-------we will never break them of this idolatry as long as we are human---it is impossible.myself i would remove all our troops and those of iraq and afghanistan that are sick of their religion and want to love their neighbours as them selves------or take all of them and secure them in a defencible portion of their own lands and supply them with the essentials to look after themselves.

reply to post by jsobecky


JSO,

I would agree with you about left wing extremist. Mindless patriotism is not confined to the right wing (but you have to aqdmit they give us plenty of examples) bt to the left wing, middle wing, heck the West wing as well.

Extreemism, be it Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, or een non religious extreemism, is just that. Blind extreemism..... Minless Patriotism is really just another form with a snazzy name.

If you don't see the point to the War Against Terrorism, then there is not much to argue about. It means that you lack the mindset to visualize the bigger picture, which in itself is the true disease prevalent today. Too many people in this modern time simply look for results and effects on an instantaneous basis. These same people fail to view the far future, and simply rely on the near future as an example of anykind of results from any number of actions.

Gitmo is not an example you should be using as some kind of disgrace. It is in fact the one example of how the United States and her Allies differ from the Terrorists and their allegiences. Where as the Terrorists only take prisoners to knife their heads off, and torture them, the United States and Allies actually allow their War prisoners to stay alive, even going as far as nourishing them, providing them with articles of their religious faith, and EVEN giving them an opportunity to be relased in the future. The United States could just as easily kill these Terrorists Suspects outright, or even allow them to squandor in a dirt hole in some jungle, and yet they go out of their way to allow them medical care, meals, recreation time, etc.

Even Abu Ghraib was not that bad. Where the U.S. might of had hooded prisoners standing on a milk crate with mock electrical cables attached to them, the Terrorists would have had actual live cables attached to these same prisoners, and would not have hesitated in using them either. You may think this to be some deplorable treatment, but please put this in a relevant perspective.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by TheAgentNineteen]

[edit on 10-11-2007 by TheAgentNineteen]