Israel Should Move to Canada or Alaska, Ahmadinejad Says

This is a quote from Wikipedia under “Early Roots of Israel"

Early roots
"Further information: History of ancient Israel and Judah
The Land of Israel, known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael, has been sacred to the Jewish people since the time of the biblical patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Bible has placed this period in the early 2nd millennium BCE.[21] According to the Torah, the Land of Israel was promised to the Jews as their homeland,[22][23] and the sites holiest to Judaism are located there. Around the 11th century BCE, the first of a series of Jewish kingdoms and states established rule over the region; these Jewish kingdoms and states ruled intermittently for the following one thousand years.[24]

Between the time of the Jewish kingdoms and the 7th-century Muslim conquests, the Land of Israel fell under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Sassanian, and Byzantine rule.[25] Jewish presence in the region dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 CE and the resultant large-scale expulsion of Jews. Nevertheless, a continuous Jewish presence in Palestine was maintained, although the main Jewish population shifted from the Judea region to the Galilee;[26] the Talmud, one of Judaism's most important religious texts, was composed in Israel during this period.[27] The Land of Israel was captured from the Byzantine Empire around 636 CE during the initial Muslim conquests. Control of the region transferred between the Umayyads,[28] Abbasids,[29] and Crusaders over the next six centuries, before falling in the hands of the Mamluk Sultanate, in 1260. In 1516, the Land of Israel became a part of the Ottoman Empire, which ruled the region until the 20th century.[30]"

So it seems at one point the land did belong to the Jews but it was take away from them and then in the 1940's it was given back. After that you have tons of Palestinian refuges. I don’t think there is any solution because nobody is willing to share the land; they all want it for themselves. Each side at one point did live along time in and around the land of Israel so both sides think is should belong only to them. So who deserves it more, the people who originally populated Israel, according to history, or the ones who most recently populated the area pre 1948?

This is my fist post
jojo

Originally posted by jojoKnowsBest
This is my fist post
jojo

Great first post jojo! Welcome!

Thank you for helping to clear up the history of the region.

You should know that when you quote from an external source you need to use the "EX" quote tags and provide a link. There is a thread about how to do it properly and I dont have a link to that thread, but I am sure a moderator will be along shortly and help you out with it, they always do.

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
I see time and again folks expressing that it is our government and thier government that are fighting, not the people. Well I find that hard to agree with when you see a story like this where it says tens of thousands of Iranians rallied the streets chanting and I quote "Death to Isreal" and "Death to the U.S."

Things are way more complicated than how you describe it.

You are right, when 9/11 happened, I saw palestinians, women on top of that, dancing in the streets. I was disgusted at that.

But remember two things, there are alot, not as much as muslim countries, of americans who would say the same, but you'd never hear them say it because it's too politically incorrect for the media.
Secondly, these countries are victims of our foreign policy, invasions and so many such things so it's clear why their numbers are more.
We don't need to talk about Iraq homeboy, u.s. been invading countries for decades, there's still troops in Vietnam my god.

America screamed when they heard that insurgents or al-qaida was putting americans or non-muslims as human shields on their tanks.

But nobody spoke when it was first Isreal that put muslim kids as human shields on their tanks.

Thanks for the help. This is the propper quote from Wiki and a link.

The Land of Israel, known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael, has been sacred to the Jewish people since the time of the biblical patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Bible has placed this period in the early 2nd millennium BCE.[21] According to the Torah, the Land of Israel was promised to the Jews as their homeland,[22][23] and the sites holiest to Judaism are located there. Around the 11th century BCE, the first of a series of Jewish kingdoms and states established rule over the region; these Jewish kingdoms and states ruled intermittently for the following one thousand years.[24]

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
With things like this going on I do not see how anyone can think we are staging attacks on ourselves.

America is currently a member of the U.N security council, and pretty much has always been. They are also the biggest arms dealer in the world, every member of the U.N security councils are this world's biggest arms dealer, this is a fact.

So when you say america doesn't stage attacks on itself, remember that America is supplying arms to the same enemies that are killing americans.

America is selling Iraq it's supply of IEDs, killing many americans and causing massive budget increases for those Halliburton tanks that resist IEDs.

so
1) America selling arms to iraq, killing americans, keep insurgents running wild, which prolongs the war and allows americans to stay in Iraq longer.

2) Money straight into dick Chenney's pocket..... i'm sure everyone knows about halliburton and other weapons companies where politicians get kickbacks.

NONE OF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT


I don't know that I have ever seen so many misconceptions about Israel/Palestine in one single thread. So, lets start...

A long long time ago, around 2000 years, the ancient nation of Israel was defeated and disbanded. Many of the people fled to different areas in the world. Most went to Babylon where they formed a new religion, Rabbinical Talmudism. The orignial Jews, the ones who had not abandoned the religion of Israel for this new Talmudism, also spread out but many stayed in the land of former Israel for the next 2000 years. There was always an OT Jewish presence there.

The Talmudists also spread all over the world taking in new converts and marrying with the populations until today they are mostly half-jews or less.

Skip ahead to WWI. The land was then part of the Ottoman Empire. It was populated with about 10% Jews and the rest mostly Muslims. Back in Britain the Talmudists made a deal with the Crown called the Balfour declaration. In this Britain promised to give away land that did not belong to them, the land of Palestine. After the war was over, and the Ottomans were defeated, the allies divided the land into smaller states including Palestine, which the Brits occupied.

Over the next generation the occupiers allowed massive immigration of Jews from Europe, America and Russia. All against the wishes of the native inhabitants. I was going to say that they were Palestinians, but that dodges the fact that the Jews too were Palestinians. Palestinian included all citizens of the State of Palestine no matter what their religion. And they all had equal rights!

On to 1947-48. Now is a good time to look at the maps and the population distribution.

www.ccmep.org...

www.palestineremembered.com...

The European powers and America, against the wishes of the Arab nations and the residents of Palestine, began to work on a UN resolution giving away half of Palestine to a minority of Jews. It wrangled back and forth in the General Assembly before they finally issued resolution 181. This was NOT a Security Council Approved resolution. It was NOT binding.

Then the British Occupational Mandate expired. A small group of Jews in Palestine signed what they called a Declaration of indpendence establishing the Nation of Israel. This same document called for a referendum and constitution, neither of which happened. Because those represented by the signers were a minority, because there was no UN authorization, and because there was never a referendum, Israel is considered an illegitimate State.

The Jews of the conceived State of Israel took up arms in order to wrest sovereignty from the people by force. More than half a million Palestinians fled their homeland in fear. The surrounding Arab nations attacked. But was this an Arab attack, or was it a European attack? Look back in history, see who the leaders were, then look at who handed them power.

Through their puppet States the European nations were the ones that staged the attack on Israel. Were the people willing, yes. But that doesn't change the source.

After the war ended there was relative peace for several years, but through this the illegitimate Israeli state passed some of the most racist laws on Earth. Despite the fact that the UN called for them to allow the refugees to return Israel refused. Instead they passed a racist immigration law and a property siezure law. All former Palestinians who could not get inside Israel had their land stolen from them.

The West Bank was annexed by Jordan. There was a referendum approved by both the Jordanians and the West Bank Palestinians. After a constitutional amendment annexation was complete. The Gaza strip was occupied by Egypt with intentions to annex, but the security situation with Israel along the border did not allow it.

A few years later Israel launched a Sneak Attack and occupied Egypt up to the Suez canal. Under Soviet threat of nuclear retaliation and pressure from the west Israel withdrew.

Then in 1967 Israel launched another Sneak Attack. This time against all of their neighbors. They occupied land that belonged to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. The UN immediately called for a withdrawal. But, of course, Israel refused. Jerusalem was annexed, illegitimately.

Then in 1973 the Arabs launched a Sneak Attack to take back their land and liberate the millions of people suffering under the Israeli occupation. They failed.

Later Israel annexed, illegitimately, the land that was preiously property of Syria and Lebanon. Namely the Golan Heights and Shebba Farms. A peace treaty was signed with Egypt and their land was returned, other than the Gaza Strip they were occupying. Jordan too signed a peace treaty with Israel, but gave up their claim to soverignty over the West Bank.

The two areas that remained, Gaza and the West Bank, were Sovereign independent territories under Israeli occupation. The Palestinian authority was entrusted with legitimacy.

And today, more than 40 years later, the territories are still suffering under illegal Israeli military occupation. Twice a year, every year, at least, the UN calls for a withdraw. But Israel, of course, refuses to consider it.

The Arab nations have offered peace in exchange for a withdrawal from the territories but Israel has always refused to even consider it, of course.

And America does everything Israel wants all the while talking up democracy as Israel presides over the longest running hostile military occupation in the world today. Where else have so many people been denied freedom and sovereignty for so long?

If you THINK you are unbiased ask youself this question. If the shoe were on the other foot, with millions of Jews suffering under hostile Islamic occupation, would you switch your sympathies, or would you still support the same side without question?

After 1600 years do the Rabbinical Talmudists still have a right to the land?

What about the Old Testament Jews, the Karaites? Do they have a right after 2000 years?

Does anyone have a right to a racist state on the land?

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Malichai]

It does not matter...10 years or so and Iran will be nothing but glowing ashes.

reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR


I think most of the people in Iran are more concerned with there daily lives then the destruction of Israel and the USA. How would you think an Iranian interpreting your comments would think of us? I have never been to Iran but when I was in fourth grade I had a friend who lived next to me. His family recently moved to the Boston area from Iran. I spent lots of time over my friend’s house and his family was some of the nicest and sweetest people I have ever met. Iranian cuisine is excellent and I was always delighted when I was invited over for dinner or to spend the night.

Originally posted by Keyhole
Why didn't somebody think of moving Israel somewhere else before?

Actually there was a serious debate on creating Israël on Madagascar, after Hitler occupied France. These plans were discarded in favor of Palestine.

Originally posted by Malichai
And America does everything Israel wants all the while talking up democracy as Israel presides over the longest running hostile military occupation in the world today. Where else have so many people been denied freedom and sovereignty for so long?

If you THINK you are unbiased ask youself this question. If the shoe were on the other foot, with millions of Jews suffering under hostile Islamic occupation, would you switch your sympathies, or would you still support the same side without question?

After 1600 years do the Rabbinical Talmudists still have a right to the land?

What about the Old Testament Jews, the Karaites? Do they have a right after 2000 years?

Does anyone have a right to a racist state on the land?

This is a 100-star post.

Thank you very much Malichai for taking time in laying this out in simple terms.

Ahmadinejad is right, and so are you.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Please research history and you'll know that the land Israel is located on is occupied Palestine.

I was wondering where the name/word Palestine came from, so I did a little searching on the internet.

Online Etymology Dictionary

Palestine
from L. Palestina (name of a Roman province), from Gk. Palaistine (Herodotus), from Heb. Pelesheth "Philistia, land of the Philistines." Revived as a political territorial name 1920.

"Land of Philistines"?

Phil·is·tine (fĭl'ĭ-stēn', fĭ-lĭs'tĭn, -tēn') Pronunciation Key
n.
A member of an Aegean people who settled ancient Philistia around the 12th century B.C.

A smug, ignorant, especially middle-class person who is regarded as being indifferent or antagonistic to artistic and cultural values.
One who lacks knowledge in a specific area.

adj.
Of or relating to ancient Philistia.
often philistine Boorish; barbarous: "our plastic, violent culture, with its philistine tastes and hunger for novelty" (Lloyd Rose).

Now don't go jumping all over me now, this is what I found on the internet, I couldn't believe these definitions either!

Philistine

Philistine
O.T. people of coastal Palestine, who made war on the Israelites, c.1340, from O.Fr. Philistin, from L.L. Philistinus, from Late Gk. Philistinoi, from Heb. P'lishtim, "people of P'lesheth" ("Philistia"); cf. Akkad. Palastu, Egyptian Palusata; the word probably is the people's name for itself.

Wikipedia - Philistine

The historic Philistines (Hebrew פְּלְשְׁתִּים, plishtim) (see "other uses" below) were a people who invaded the southern coast of Canaan around the time of the arrival of the Israelites,

Etymology
The etymology of the word into English is from Old French Philistin, from Late Latin Philistinus, from Late Greek Philistinoi, from Hebrew P'lishtim, (See, e.g., 1 Samuel 17:26, 17:36; 2 Samuel 1:20; Judges 14:3)."people of P'lesheth" ("Philistia"); cf. Akkadian Palastu, Egyptian Palusata; the word probably is the people's name for itself.[1] cf. the semitic root Pelesh (Hebrew: פלש‎) which means to divide, go through, to roll in, cover or invade.[2]

If the Philistines are to be identified as one of the "Sea Peoples" (see Origins below), then their occupation of Canaan would have to have taken place during the reign of Ramesses III of the Twentieth Dynasty, ca. 1180 to 1150 BC.

"Sea Peoples"?
Sea Peoples - Wikipedia

The Sea Peoples is the term used for a confederacy of seafaring raiders who sailed into the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, caused political unrest, and attempted to enter or control Egyptian territory during the late 19th dynasty, and especially during Year 8 of Ramesses III of the 20th Dynasty.[1] The Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah explicitly refers to them by the term "the foreign-countries (or 'peoples'[2]) of the sea" (Egyptian nȝ ḫȝt.w n pȝ ym[3][4]) in his Great Karnak Inscription.[5] Although some scholars believe that they "invaded" Cyprus, Hatti and the Levant, this hypothesis is disputed.[6]

The Philistines occupied the five cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, along the coastal strip of southwestern Canaan, that belonged to Egypt up to the closing days of the Nineteenth Dynasty (ended 1185 BC).

This powerful association of tribes made frequent incursions against the Hebrews. There was almost perpetual war between the two peoples. the Philistine cities were ruled by seranim (סְרָנִים, "lords"), who acted together for the common good, though to what extent they had a sense of a "nation" is not clear without literary sources. After their defeat by the Hebrew king David, who originally for a time worked as a mercenary for Achish of Gath, kings replaced the seranim, governing from various cities.

So, after this little internet information excursion, from what I understand from this is that Palestinians are descendants of the Philistines, who were the Sea People who attacked the Canaans and then occupied the land. They conquered land and then occupied it, just like the Jews are doing right now.

That is, if I interpreted all this info correctly.

That land has been conquered and occupied SOOO many times it is just TOTALLY ridiculous to call ANYBODY an "occupier" there now.

That land has been fought over for THOUSANDS of years, not hundreds, and I personally don't see an end to it in sight.

I don't think that ANYBODY can say who the original settlers were on that land, so to me, the bickering over who is the "occupier" is just ridiculous. It has always been the strongest hold the land over there and that's the way it still is.

[edit on 7/10/07 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by Keyhole
So, after this little internet information excursion, from what I understand from this is that Palestinians are descendants of the Philistines, who were the Sea People who attacked the Canaans and then occupied the land. They conquered land and then occupied it, just like the Jews are doing right now.

That is, if I interpreted all this info correctly.

You did not interpret it correctly. Palestinians are people who lived in the land of Palestine, and their children, and their childen, etc...

Before WWI, and going back more than four hundred years, the land was controlled by the Ottoman Empire. The people there were Arabs, even the Jews. Thousands of years are between where you try to place them and the point where Palestinian nationality was thrust upon them by outside occupiers.

The Arabs did not name it, the British did. And even the Jews were Palestinians for a time, at least the ones who lived in Palestine.

Palestinian is Nationality. The Lebanese next door do not share their nationality other than the refugees. Same for all the other surrounding nations.

But, I do understand where you are coming from. You only half remember all of the Palestinian Denial from all the Zionist Propaganda you have read. They try to do it without lying but the results are that people believe things that are not true.

The entire argument of Israelis being occupiers is total garbage. I am not naive, and I do know that Israelis have their share of war mongerers (ie, Sharon), but they DO have a right to exist. If so many want to argue that the Palestinians were the original inhabitants, then the same argument can be made about the Israelites who migrated to that very land thousands of years ago. The Israelis in all reality have just as much claim to that land as the Palestinians do. It is a shame that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated, as he was one Israeli leader who was TRULY respected by the Muslims, and had the best chance to bring about peace. I personally know many Muslims who really held a deep respect for this man, and if he had been allowed to live, he would have most definitely brought about something special. Too bad that Ariel Sharon is connected with the group that offed Rabin, goes to show what kind of person he really is. Arafat and Sharon belong together in all honesty. Israel needs to stop the stupid useless attacks they launch against unarmed civilians, such as the infamous beach attack where they left orphaned children crying over their parents bodies. On the same note, the Palestinians need to get their act together and cease the encouragement of false martyrdom. Both sides have their evil, and their good. It will take another Rabin to get things moving in the right direction.

As for Iran, there are a lot of good people in that country who happen to be ruled over by tyrannical Clerics, and a nutjob of a President. They are already burning effegies of A-ma-daddy-been-a-bad boy, and they are constantly passing around doctored photos of him on their cell phones. One thing they really make fun of is his "personal hygiene habits". Whatever that means, I guess he likes to bathe in his toilet or something. Be careful though, because this guy started the entire PR Campaign that North Korea and Venezuela are now following. He acts very concerned with poor folks, and interested in making ties with "The American People", but believe me, he wishes you dead just as bad as any other terrorist.

The entire argument of Israelis being occupiers is total garbage.

The Israeli State is occupying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They never annexed.

The Golan Heights, Shebba Farms and Jeruslaem were not annexed legitimately.

The state of Israel itself has not established a constitution nor have they held a referendum.

Israel is an illegitimate state in violation of its own supposed Declaration of Independence.

Is that occupation? Not technically, but it is not legitimate.

The territories? Yes, they are occupied and illegally at that.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Malichai]

Originally posted by humanunnaki
Israel is what it is! Israel should be much larger than it is now. No Gaza strip or West Bank for the so-called "palestinians (a ragtag bunch of feral dog camp followers of dubious heritage). What does the Torah say? Israel should stretch from ... to ...? If we don't see to it that God's will be done, we will get thwacked but good. His patience is thinning ... Yes, that's a warning!

My god..... Wow..... Talk about extremism. If Ahmadinejad ever said the above, but replacing Isreal with Palestine you would claim that he was threatening to wipe everyone off the map..
Talk about double standards! I can see why Iran is so ticked off.. That is if all of isreal thinks like you!
IMO, current-day Isreal is simply nothing but a big collection of stolen land that never belonged to isreal.. It is what it is.....
So what are you warning exactly? That if we all don't convert into Jews we will be killed? wow.......Tell us how you REALLY Feel!

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
So basically you are admitting that you were wrong and are now trying to save face by saying you were talking about one little particular time period. Yeah right!!

No basically I'm clarifying what I meant the whole time. It's really not my problem that you twist my words and convince yourself that you're right.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Of course you don't care to look further back because it throws your entire opinion out the window and proves you are wrong!

I don't care to look further back because I wasn't talking about further back.

I'm sorry this is tough for you to understand.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Using your analogy all we have to do is look at one particular battle of WWI or WWII to decide who won the war instead of who won the war entirely. Don't you see the fallacy of your argument?

Nice flawed analogy.

Better luck next time.

Originally posted by justme2

So what are you warning exactly? That if we all don't convert into Jews we will be killed? wow.......Tell us how you REALLY Feel!

You cannot become Jewish unless you marry someone who is Jewish.

You can however just go on being the GOYIM that you are, and second class compared to Jews. After submitting to their Noahide law you can be a slave for all your life. And you will be allowed to live provided you never break any of the seven commandments. Breaking any one is death by decapitation.

reply to post by Aaron_Justin


My opinion only.... Israel and the US are skating on thin ice. The last few years(2) have been a gift from God. Now some advice...........settle down the both of you and learn to get along.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Too bad that Ariel Sharon is connected with the group that offed Rabin, goes to show what kind of person he really is. Arafat and Sharon belong together in all honesty.

No offence, but did you just step out of a time machine from a Pre-2004 trip?

Ariel Sharon has been in a coma since Januari 4th, 2006 and was succeeded as Prime Minister of Israël by Ehud Olmert on April 14th, 2006.

Yasser Arafat died November 11th, 2004 and was succeeded by Mahmoud Abbas as President of the PNA on Januari 15th, 2005.

The arena has changed, but the game is essentially the same.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Truth4hire]

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
in the world we live in, sometimes you cannot allow some people to have some things.

Groan

We are talking about a sovereign nation, not a flippin individual ego - duh!

Ahmejimjam is a democratically elected official, he is not IRAN!!