Islamic Prejudice: Christians

reply to post by grover



Perhaps this will help.........

"
TERRORISM IN THE QURAN

Muhammad taught his followers to oppress or kill non-Muslims. Generally, Jews and Christians were allowed to live as such, provided they paid a special tax. This tax is Jizya, a tax revenue given to the Muslims to make up for revenues they lost from no longer dealing in pagan activities. If the Jews and Christians refused to pay this extortion tax they would have to convert to Islam or be killed. Non Jews or Christians (idolaters or pagans) had to convert to Islam or be killed. Generally they didn't have the option of paying the tax. Here is the verse that teaches Muslims to oppress Jews and Christians:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all other religions ) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians ) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) 9:29 ." (Commentary in parenthesis is from the Tafsir Al-Jalalein. i.e., Al-Jalalein Interpretation of the Koran.)

The order to kill Christians and Jews is in that verse. It is clear that Muhammad ordered his followers to fight those Christians and Jews to convert them or pay the Jizya, and if they don't convert or pay, do you think that he told the followers to let them go in peace? It is very clear: convert... or pay with submission ... or die.

The background for this is found in "The Life of Muhammad", op cit, page 620,

"...."until they [the Jews and Christians] pay the poll tax out of hand being humbled", i.e. as a compensation for what you fear to lose by the closing of the markets. God gave them compensation for what He cut off from them in their former polytheism by what He gave them by way of poll tax from the people of Scripture."

Muhammad told his followers to attack the Jews and Christians. If they humble themselves and submit to the Muslims, but choose to remain Christian or Jewish, then they would have to pay the Muslims. Again, Muhammad's circumstances changed - Allah changed. Now Muhammad was an extortionist.

Also note that the tax levied upon the Christians and Jews was not to support the state in general affairs, it was to compensate the Muslims. Muhammad was exactly like Mafia crime boss, making others pay for "protection".... except, the Christians and Jews really needed protection from the Muslims!

Here is the verse in the Quran that teaches Muslims to attack and kill pagans:

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5"

answering-islam.org.uk...

For the first 100 years it was forbidden for anyone other than Arabs to convert to Islam.

Have you considered the fact that your hatred for Muslims makes you no better than those you decry?

Hate is hate no matter who is doing it or towards whom it is directed.

[edit on 5-10-2007 by grover]

Did anyone notice that the OP's "mood" on his avatar is anti-Islam? The guys got an agenda and is just trolling for points. I wouldn't bother giving him the satisfaction. It's one thing to be anti-terrorist, but anti-Islam is just ignorant. Just as bad as any other stereotype out there.

The Pact of Umar, an early Medieval document that outlines all of the requirements for a Christian or Jew to live in relative peace while they pay the Jizyah tax, is the text the OP was talking about when he said persecution of Christians and Jews is instructed in the Qu'ran.

But I guarantee you that all Sunni Muslim Governments and Caliphates will abide by the Pact of Umar, and make the Christians and Jews "Dhimmis" as they are called. Look up Pact of Umar on Wikipedia. The rules are outrageous.

So yes, it is the Muslims' duty to spread Islam across the globe until all men are Muslims (or the #2 option, lol). A worldwide global caliphate, this has been the goal from the beginning. Don't let any liberal muslim tell you otherwise, if they say that it isnt written in the Qu'ran that muslims should work toward a global caliphate, that there are no rules making jews and christians second class citizens, that muslims just want to live in peace and quiet by themselves, its all untrue. Maybe some do, sure, but the ones with power dont. The Shiekhs will admit to this openly if you ask them point blank as well.

North Africa was converted by the Sword.

Constantinople and the Orthodox Christian territories in Asia Minor were converted by the Sword.

The Bactrian region of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Eastern Iran was converted by the Sword.

reply to post by closettrekkie


Good points... I am off this thread. Its author is too hate filled to be worth my time.

BTW its rather hypocritical to take Muslims to task about wanting to spread their religion around the world when Christians do the same.

[edit on 5-10-2007 by grover]

Christianity has historically converted by the sword as well, and has arguably been far more successful at it. I have also been told more than once by evangelical types that they will not rest until all of humanity is converted to Christianity.

People in glass houses...

Sounds a lot like The Wholey Rollers of the other big 2. Frankly none of these (at tleast) 3 religions are Holy- they are killers and oppressors. They have bastardized faith and killed without mercy or remorse in the anme of their "god'- power, money and fame. Makes an atheist pray for Judgement day just to see the real wrath of god on these immoral charlatines. I doubt and would not trust these CULTS to determine who is Holy and who is Not. There doing so well screwing mankind now- they kill the savior and make the antiChrist Pope, or whatever they call their'wholely' leader

reply to post by astmonster


um... islam is just as anti-christian as christianity is anti-islam

and apostasy doesn't only apply to those who would convert to christianity.

Originally posted by Malichai
Yes, but a far greater percentage of Jews follow the Talmud.

And it is even more hateful, racist and primative than anything that the Zionists have said about Islam.

With the Jewish religion all the world is to fall under their control with Talmud law for them and Noahide law for everyone else.

Noahide law is the most hateful system any human has ever imagined. It would leave Jews as slave masters over the entire world without anyone ever having the chance to rise up from the goyim.

Now, call me an antisemite so that I can call you a hypocrite and say that those christian sites don't represent me any more than Bush represents truth and love.

I would not call you anti-semitic, as that implies you hate the Jewish race as an ethnic group (Hebrew more accurately), I'd call you anti-Judaism (the religion itself).

Though the info you are getting could be from biased sites, and I've heard things about mistranslations.

And you know, every Jew I've met has been nice and tolerant of my beliefs, I've never seen them forcing their beliefs on other people, or even attempting conversion, heck the religion doesn't proselytize, apparently it's not a requirement. None of them minded/mind my lack of religion. I have never heard or seen any racist Jewish people; at the very least, a much lower percentage of them are racist than Christians.

So, whats up with that? Or are you going to say something along the lines of them just biding their time until they can take over?

Originally posted by astmonster
Islam requires that all non-muslims convert, die, or become slaves to "true" muslims. Make no mistake this is all muslims because the Qur'an requires it.

Ok, prove it.

Show us where it says this in the Quran.

Originally posted by Dr Horacid...erm I mean astmonster

Ok, for the last time, I AM NOT THIS DOCTOR HORRACID PERSON...........

Same style of painting in the avatar, same thread starting style (news link, followed immediately by a fresh post), same areas of interest, same views, same way of expressing them....and, to cap it off - SAME SIG.

Nuff said. Entertaining posts though

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 5-10-2007 by Paul]

reply to post by DJMessiah


Bother to read previous posts above...........been there done that.

reply to post by closettrekkie


yes, I ahve an agenda. Tell the truth about Islam, the real truth not the PC version or the "CAIR" paid by Hamas version.

Trolling? If I understood the term?

Yes, I am anti-islam. At least I am truthful about it.

And anti-catholic

And anti-babtist

And anti-methodist, lutheran, and all the other false religions.

There is One God, One Christ, One Holy Spirit, One weekly Sabbath, Seven annaual Sabbaths, 10 commandments.........

reply to post by madnessinmysoul



errr, Christianity is about Love, Islam is about POWER

There is no doubt in my mind that Islam is one of the greatest evils on the planet...I mean the things that shock people here like murder, brutality, slavery and oppression is a common everyday thing in Islamic nations. And the thing is that it is their very cult that enforces such barbaric activity.

Originally posted by laiguana
There is no doubt in my mind that Islam is one of the greatest evils on the planet...I mean the things that shock people here like murder, brutality, slavery and oppression is a common everyday thing in Islamic nations. And the thing is that it is their very cult that enforces such barbaric activity.

I agree but I am talking about the extremists. There are some Mooslims that do actually practice a non violent form of the religion. I'm always amazed how some people bend over backwards to make excuses for this hate filled religion by saying its only a 'misinterpretation'. Give me a break!

[edit on 5-10-2007 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]

reply to post by astmonster


Bother to actually read the Quran rather than post disinfo from a website. Been there done that?

Why don't you tell us what it says before and after the verse you posted?

reply to post by astmonster


So... where is the love you claim as a Christian... I have seen nothing but hate for you so far.

Also, in defense of Islam, I attribute many of the violence happening in Muslim society, sexism, oppression of women, killing of homosexuals and other "sinners" as simply because their mentality is largely stuck in the past. Many western Muslims are more liberal.

Let us not forget that back in medieval Europe it was practically the same as Saudi Arabia is today.

I think we can just give them time to liberalize.

However, I think it is of utmost importance for liberalized Muslims to do more to speak out of against such things.

[edit on 10/5/2007 by Kacen]

This is no worst than Christians killing everyone who didn't believe in the bible as the past shows.

Also going to 'hell' for believing in another religion is far worst...