Athiests, What would it take for you to be a Christian??

Originally posted by WorldShadow
I am agnostic. For me to even consider believing in your god, It would have to stand before me, tell me something I know, and tell me something I don't know. Than grant me 3 wishes.

That would likely be a jinee, or a jin, as some myths go, these entities maybe malevolent.

I don't think the christian God does this kind of thing, anyway give it a go, you never know... heheheheee

Originally posted by ixiy

Originally posted by WorldShadow
I am agnostic. For me to even consider believing in your god, It would have to stand before me, tell me something I know, and tell me something I don't know. Than grant me 3 wishes.

That would likely be a jinee, or a jin, as some myths go, these entities maybe malevolent.

I don't think the christian God does this kind of thing, anyway give it a go, you never know... heheheheee

The godly claim there god to be omnipotent, powerful and loving. He also created miracles, granted wishful prayer as told by his worshipers. Why not show me the stuff.

reply to post by WorldShadow


Ha i can think of one reason...

Well I'm going to reply to the OP.

Would would it take for me to turn Christian?

- absolute concrete proof
- end of religious discrimination, fanatacism, wars and bigotry

And you know.. both of those will never happen, so me turning Christian is about as likely as Bush fully evolving. *shrug*

Originally posted by dominicus1
But, before you answer please be advised that I personally feel that the following excuses are illegitimate:



2. Zetgeist Documentary comparing Jesus to dozen's of others of mythical characters. Again illegitimate because this film isn't considered by any serious scholar as factual.

Sorry to say but one of the reasons I won't be a Christian is because of that. While I do believe Jesus did exist, I think later Christians bigged him up by turning what was probably only an exceptional priest into an amalgamation of older faiths in an effort to attract more followers.

Another reason I won't be joining your religion (or any other) is because I think something which causes so much trouble and violence, and war, and all other negative events cannot in any way be good.

Finally, my last (and most important) reason for absconding from religion...

I JUST DON'T WANT TO!

So why should I?

reply to post by JackofBlades


Christianity is powerful. Though it does not kill people, just as a gun is powerful, but there must be a human action to bring about that power. A human will is necessary to kill.

You don't blame the gun in a murder, do you?

Actually I bame both gun and murderer. If the owner hadn't fired there would be no murder, similarly if the gun hadn't been created it couldn't have been fired.
And please don't misquote me. I never said Christianity alone is a cause of violence, I said organised religion in general is. I don't want to come across as anti-Christian when I'm in fact anti-all religion.

reply to post by JackofBlades


I didn't quote you. My point was, at the root of it all, men kill men. Ideologies are born of man, thus man remains as the root of all evil commited upon other people.

Man kills man, and ideologies are created as ways of justifying the killing or indeed causing more killing.
However I don't want to derail the thread so I won't talk further.

I will never be a Christian. I will never be a Muslim, a Sikh, a Hindu, or a member of any major religion, with the possible exception of Buddhism. The idea of living my life according to someone else's rule is completely abhorrent. My life is exactly that: MY life. My problems are experiences from which I learn. Tragedy in my life (of which there's been a lot) is a way of helping me grow stronger and more capable of dealing with things.

Many people enjoy living this way. Doing whatever appeals. I say, be full, in your enjoyment, for the cup from which we drink is almost empty.

Forestlady,
Again with expanded concsiousness you took me out of context, I meant foreign substances and meditation/breathing excercises.

I'm not here to inflame anyone and I do genuinely care and have read, taken into consideration, and philosophically dwelled on every single post. Again you have jumped to conclusions, made assumptions and completely taken my whole motivation out of context.

The original illegitimate reasoning in the op make complete sense because of the fact that they are all more than refutable.

Other than that, it is against my belief system to be arrogant and always follows a stage in life where said arrogance is dealt with an opposite reaction to put said state in check. Arrogance is also an illegitimate reasoning because it is your assumption/opnion possibly based on your previous encounter with what could have been untrue christians.

There are many people that have replied on this thread without using any of the illegitimate reasoning, seeing for themselves that lack of substance and the ability of overwhelming refutability in those reasons.

The op was stated non arrogantly and fairly
_____
As one poster replied previously to summerize, wouldn't the case be that even seeing sandals in the sky or obvious proof to everyone, many athiests would still continue to disbelieve, using logic and reason to try and find alternative conclusions???
____
Shadowed Redemption,
If I grouped all athiests in 1 category thinking that you would all answer the same way, I would have never asked this question is this thread, which by the way I think is awsome with the varieties of answers and philosophical reasoning on here. Very informative indeed, especially with those people realizing that illegitimate reasons make sense. And for the arrogance thing, see what I told forestlady. Basically for people like you, there is no way I can say or ask anything without you raising the arrogance stick (which again is against my beliefs to be arrogant) Sheesh !!!!
_____
Another question I have to ask you all is, will you be reconsidering on your death beds when your old and it's time to go (assuming you live to an old age)?????

With the gun parable, we can also use a baseball bat parable which u can use to play with your child or to bash some-one's head, by itself it's nutarl and intended for fun. Same as a steak knife is intended for cutting steak not people, you get the point im sure.

Jesus never killed or commanded so, when in fact it was always to turn the other cheek and forgive automatically. It's the fanatic extremists that take out of context and have not tasted enlightenment that give it a bad name, cause wars, murders, politics, and so forth. That is not a true Christian nor is it true Christianity.

By the way, Buddha stated that soon one will come after him who is greater than him, who is the greatest. Many believe he is referencing the comming of Jesus.

Originally posted by dominicus1
Jesus never killed or commanded so, when in fact it was always to turn the other cheek and forgive automatically.

I refer you to the parable of ten pounds (Luke 19:12-27) in which Jesus says to "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.". It is clear from the parable that the nobleman of the story is jesus and he is commanding slayings 'before me'

By the way, Buddha stated that soon one will come after him who is greater than him, who is the greatest. Many believe he is referencing the comming of Jesus.

Belief is not a form of truth nor should it ever be considered so - you dont believe in islam and there are billions that do so please don't try and use superficial claims as evidence. Buddha could has just as well be referencing Muhammed or any other religious fruitbat that people put their faith in.

In reference to the OP - Absolutley nothing would ever convince me to become a christian - I find certain parts of the religion abhorent and could never worship either your god or jesus.


G

I'm not an atheist, but I Christianity feels very off to me. I don't feel the love from "Jesus", I am sick of male deities.

Jesus just feels blank and cold to me, I am sorry. That is just how I feel. I get nothing from it.

LIke others said, basically Jesus hitting me on the head, all glowing and pretty, and giving me three wishes.

But not for the same reason.

I was a devout christian. I never felt so alone in my life. And abandoned. and I never felt God.

And don't give me the footprints junk. If I am lonely and my husband is on the other side of the planet, it doesn't do me any good.

I found paganism. I have 2 divine parents now.And my life has had meaning and been fulfilled since. And I haven't spent one minute alone.And I have never been more secure.

You don't "see" God, or have proof of "God" or Jesus. You feel God, everyday, in everything you do. Good or bad.

If you can't feel God, despite your best efforts, then God isn't there. No matter what scientists or christians say.

i will believe if you can

part a sea for me to walk on the sea bed

or

feed thousands of hungary people with next to nothing

or best yet

let me nail you to a cross till you die
and THEN you come back from the dead......

when would you like to begin ^^

btw
why do you christians need to try and change us lower non-believers.

live and let live
be happy with what YOU have and dont worry about us

chickenfeet

Originally posted by dominicus1
3. Jesus doesn't exist. Again illegitimate because the majority of historians and scholars agree that he did exist.

AH HA HA!

ahaha ha ha !

ahahahaha!

Oh God, you kill me....

Originally posted by dominicus1
3. Jesus doesn't exist. Again illegitimate because the majority of historians and scholars agree that he did exist.

logical fallacy of the argument from authority

how about you provide proof that he exists?

I am fascinated by all the arguing that goes on in this forum, while being extremely happy that I am not a Mod in it. As with most of my posts there are no answers here, only questions.

Of all the religions in the world, why should an atheist choose Christianity above all others? If God is omnipotent wouldn't he/she/it be smart enough to know that people can't agree on anything, let alone a single path to him/her/it? Why should the Bible be taken as the literal word of God instead of an allegorical account that has been translated thousands of times by people with their own agenda to push and societal laws to lay down?

I think there may be a lot of atheists out there that are fond of this quote (or would be fond of it if they had heard it) by Ghandi - "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." If mainstream Christianity followed the teachings of Christ a little more closely, perhaps more people would be inclined to join. I imagine it must be difficult to reconcile the idea of loving all with the reality of organized religion.

I think a better question would have been 'what would make you believe in preternatural and/or supernatural power', although I suspect the answers may be the same - even though there are Christians who don't take the water into wine story literally either.


[edit on 7-10-2007 by Duzey]

reply to post by dominicus1


So please explain how I took your reference to meditation, breathing,etc. out of context? You haven't told me why it's out of context. Do you disagree then with what you said?
With your claims of "illegitimate reasons", right there you prove you aren't really interested in our answers, I feel. You say those reasons are irrefutable; but I disagree. I do not believe the majority of scholars believe Jesus actually existed. I have studied this a great deal from the point of view of many religions, rabbis, Christian, imams, etc.
Further, I did explain to you why I would never become Christian again without using your banned reasons.
I am a Pagan and far too often, Christians refer to us as Satanists and evil. I resent that and am offended and it's not true, but Christians keep insisting that we're evil people. To claim to know more about my religion than me, is arrogant. Most Christians believe their religion is the one true one. Both of these ideas are arrogant.
Sorry, I still see your responses as arrogant. Just because you don't "believe" in arrgance, doesn't make you arrogance-free. I don't believe in being ignorant, either, but sometimes I am, despite my best efforts.
To claim that you are arrogance-free is, itself, arrogant. No human is free from that.
I don't have the sense that you are really hearing most of us on this thread. No amount of argument from you will change that opinion. I stand by what I said and what I see, not by whatever it is that you choose to tell me.