Element 115 question

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


As much as I would love to bash ITF for another of his hard core sceptic posts .... this time I have to agree with him .... I just read the whole thread as I havent been following this forum to much and I must admit that I fully support ITF on this one ...

And if anybody will go over my posts You will notice I could be mostly called a beliver (sometimes on the fence but mostly I belive) , so I am not some sceptic that just tries to bash another of Jhons threads ..

Mr. Jhon if you really know where the element is or know anybody (and it seems You know) that has the idea , it would not be hard to get "some" proof of its existence ..

Even if you cant just plainly take the piece out and walk into a news station stating the obvious , You could at least take some pictures or better yet a small viedo clip of it ....

What I'm trying to say I guess is , come on there are so manny ways to providing the evidence without having to walk right into a news station that even a 10 year old could do (no offence but thats just plain facts).

No disrespect.

Originally posted by Thill
Even if you cant just plainly take the piece out and walk into a news station stating the obvious , You could at least take some pictures or better yet a small viedo clip of it ....

Sorry, but showing a photo or video of a chunk of whatever and then simply claiming it's "Element 115" won't prove anything.

On the other hand, chopping off a bit and having it analyzed by a lab of your choice would be a big step in the right direction .

Regards
yf


[edit on 5.10.2007 by yfxxx]

John how much are they paying you to just flush the last of your credibility down the toilet? You want me to honestly believe that you have a piece of 115 hidden somewhere, and you refuse to show it to the public? You are trying so desperatley to expose government conspiracies, and when you finally get the proof, you decide not to act on it. Just assuming your story is true... by your own admission then, you refuse to actually show the public the proof you have of the government conspiracy. However, you still want to be taken seriously as a conspiracy theorist?!?!? As for Bob... he stole and exposed some of the governments most top secret projects. Know what the government did? They gave his company United Nuclear more contracts. Does that make any sense?A conspiracy theorist who admits he has proof yet refuses to uncover the conspiracy... and a physicist who exposed government secrets being given even more classified contracts... something is wrong here... very very wrong...

[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

Originally posted by CTS32

They gave his company United Nuclear more contracts. Does that make any sense?A conspiracy theorist who admits he has proof yet refuses to uncover the conspiracy... and a physicist who exposed government secrets being given even more classified contracts... something is wrong here... very very wrong...

To some its secrets within secrets in a hall of mirrors with a floor of quicksand. I would agree.

OMG ...... He didnt say thanks for the post!!!!!!!!!!!! It's the sign of the apocalypse, the final seal has been opened ( I am full of so much sarcasm it spills over to ATS occasionally XD)

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by CTS32

They gave his company United Nuclear more contracts. Does that make any sense?A conspiracy theorist who admits he has proof yet refuses to uncover the conspiracy... and a physicist who exposed government secrets being given even more classified contracts... something is wrong here... very very wrong...

To some its secrets within secrets in a hall of mirrors with a floor of quicksand. I would agree.

Again, what a load of bull.

John, if keep coming up with cheap excuses and catchy sayings and pretty soon your precious fan base will tire of your theories. How long do you plan to keep this up? I mean, your being called out here, plain and simple. Can you at least list the very specific reasons why, as a brilliant ufology investigator, you refuse to handle this element 115 subject?

Come on John, you have to see the writing on the wall here, right?

[edit for my stupid spelling]

[edit on 5-10-2007 by IgnoreTheFacts]

Admin edit: Removed childish name calling

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts

Can you at least list the very specific reasons why, as a brilliant ufology investigator, you refuse to handle this element 115 subject in a manner that doesn't make you look like a complete fool?

Come on John, you have to seethe writing on the wall here, right?

Thanks for the post ITF.

No comment.

Thanks again for your input it is greatly appreciated.

Come on John, go retrieve this amazing sample that will prove most of what you say is true and save the world............

Your full of nothing but convenient excuses. Whatever you can post that allows you to keep this dribble up, I guess? What are you afraid of, John? People finding out your a fraud? Or goverment agents killing you and your family? Again, give the sample to someone and let them carry the load of this horrible burden you have had to deal with.

You can not comment on this all you want, but you know darn well how you are coming across right now.......and some of your blind followers are probably starting to "see" a little for themselves too. I guess you would rather not share the truth about element 115 and only loose your followers one by one, rather than come out with the provable truth and loose them all at once?

[edit on 5-10-2007 by IgnoreTheFacts]

Originally posted by johnlear
Thanks for the post ITF.

No comment.

Thanks again for your input it is greatly appreciated.

And that's all?!? They call you a Conspiracy Master for this kind of replies?! And yet the board's motto is "Deny Ignorance"??

This is either a very bad joke, or ... well ... no way to say it without T&C violation .

As a matter of fact, a true Conspiracy Master should be able to answer very straightforward challenges like that of ITF much more elegantly than giving a simple "No comment" (embellished with smilies and the occasional smart-*ss remark). I expect either well-founded counter-arguments or at least creative excuses!

Mr. Lear, your so-called "theories" certainly deserve a specially dedicated "Weirdness Unlimited" subforum. But a Conspiracy Master you are NOT.

Regards
yf

Forget ATS "DENY IGNORANCE", our new slogan is ATS "NO COMMENT"... Your conspiracy master refuses to even answer simple questions about his theories. Is this the behavior you accept from your conspiracy masters? To just ignore or deny comments from members? It's sad John, even your own supporters aren't backing you on this one. And the first domino falls...



[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

Originally posted by CTS32
It's the new ATS slogan... forget ATS "DENY IGNORANCE", our new slogan is ATS "NO COMMENT"... way to go ATS, keep giving people like this there own forum. Your conspiracy master refuses to even answer simple questions about his theories. This is acceptable behavior from someone you give a forum too?


[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

My goodness someone is grouchy today huh?

I'll tell you what CTS32, you get hundreds of people who want you to have your own forum, get on several national radio shows, television, and amass 30+ years experience in aviation and government contracting and I'll see what I can do.

I suggest in the mean time however, you remember that you are on AboveTopSecret.com and we require civility.

WRT answering questions, most people don't waste their time answering questions more than once or twice or three times. Especially for people who badger rather than politely discuss... This isn't a court house, it's a discussion forum.

I would also add that I have never heard John say he was one of the three people who know where, exactly, in L.V. the stuff is supposed to be, am I missing something here?

Springer...


[edit on 10-5-2007 by Springer]

(Edit: Springer wins. )

I have the utmost respect for this site and Mr. Lear, but I too am puzzled by Lear's refusal to answer several of my own questions, ignoring my posts entirely. Additionally, I've seen the same done for other members of this forum. I have no problems with his claims, they've a very interesting piece of either fiction of nonfiction (especially if it's the latter), but I fail to understand why he would dodge questions so consistently. I'm very curious about his experiences, and he's always wanted to get the truth out - so why not?

[edit on 5-10-2007 by Johnmike]

reply to post by Johnmike



I don't understand your wiki quote, I was only addressing the "why a forum" issue not any of the claims within it.

Springer...


[edit on 10-5-2007 by Springer]

So your saying it is too much to ask of your "conspiracy master" to actually reply to questions? I'm sorry, I didn't know that asking for some proof to an outrageous claim was against ATS rules. Truth is he can't answer any logical questions... do you actually read his threads, he skips over any question he can't answer. It's so bad we are going to "no comment" now... his resume has nothing to do with the fact he can't back up any of what he says with a shred of evidence. The president has a pretty good resume, want to just blindly follow everything he says without questioning it? John can tell all the stories he wants, when he starts claiming to have proof of such and such, but its stolen/hidden/ fill in the blank with convienent excuse... thats crossing the line for a supposed conspiracy master. So you honestly want to tell me, that it is too much to ask of your conspiracy master to answer questions reguarding his self admitted claims?

Your going to tell me that you guys are okay with your "conspiracy masters" resorting to ignoring evidence, and not commenting on evidence brought forward. How does this fit into "deny ignorance".. please explain that to me...

Originally posted by Johnmike

How did you measure the alpha particle to know that it diverted its path, or however you described it?

And how did you get your Coleman lantern mantle to give off alpha particles, anyway? Maybe I missed it.

Hi again, John, could you describe this to me? I'm not interrogating you, I just have no clue.

Johnmike please accept my apologies for the delay in answering this post.

Bob was very critical of Coleman for their use of a highly dangerous radioactive element in their mantles. He was always complaining that no government agency ever took Coleman to task for this deliberate and dangerous practice.

I emailed Bob yesterday to find out exactly what the element was in the Coleman mantel before I answered your post. I should have told you what the delay was.

I was also waiting to confirm that the element did indeed emit gamma, alpha and beta particles which all radiation sources do.

Radiation sources such as the one in the Coleman mantel and the one that Bob used for the Element 115 experiment emit all three particles and these particles travel extremely fast outward from the source.

So in answer to your question:

"And how did you get your Coleman lantern mantle to give off alpha particles, anyway? Maybe I missed it."

All radiation sources radiate these particles.

In answer to your question:

How did you measure the alpha particle to know that it diverted its path, or however you described it?

Its wasn't measured. All radiation particles travel outward at a very high rate of speed. If it makes a u-turn shortly after leaving the source then something extremelyt powerful is making it divert its course. In the case of the element 115 the alpha particle did a 90 degree turn directly into the Element 115.

Please accept my apologies for the delay in answering. I was just waiting for confirmation on several things. And no, Bob never did get back to me. If he ever does I am going toask him for an exact definition of an SMU (singlar mass unit).

Thanks for the post.

reply to post by CTS32



I never said anything even close to "it's too much to ask a CM to answer questions".

If you read what I wrote you'll see I said nobody is required to answer the same questions over and over again.

I will add that John is certainly not required to answer any questions he can't or doesn't want to, if it makes you feel better though.

Seriously though, most people don't respond well to badgering/interrogation or rudeness I imagine John doesn't either. We like our speculative discussion to be friendly, mean spirited or rude demands for proof don't usually get very far.

This is a discussion forum for ALTERNATIVE TOPICS, not a science board replete with peer review. We have plans for such a board but the John Lear Conspiracy Master Forum is not it.

Springer...


[edit on 10-5-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by Springer
I'll tell you what CTS32, you get hundreds of people who want you to have your own forum, get on several national radio shows, television, and amass 30+ years experience in aviation and government contracting and I'll see what I can do.

Experience in aviation doesn't give John Lear one iota of authority when talking about astronomy, astrophysics, nuclear physics, orbital mechanics, planetary science, geology, advanced optics, photo analysis, etc. etc.

Yet John does talk about these subjects (and more), and claims that just about everything what is "mainstream" knowledge about them is totally wrong. And you are surprised that not everyone just listens in awe??

I have a university degree in physics. Am I supposed to keep quiet when anyone starts to talk BS in my area of knowledge, and refuses to provide any backup of his claims whatsoever? When he implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) says that so-called "mainstream" scientists are nothing more than clueless sock-puppets of "them" (whoever "they" are)?

I suggest in the mean time however, you remember that you are on AboveTopSecret.com and we require civility.

Oh yes, indeed! And in my book, civility does not include backing out of a discussion when being cornered, with nothing else than a "No Comment"! John Lear is labeled "Conspiracy Master", but quite frequently behaves like a troll who simply goes into plain denial or silence when cornered.

WRT answering questions, most people don't waste their time answering questions more than once or twice or three times. Especially for people who badger rather than politely discuss... This isn't a court house, it's a discussion forum.

It is supposed to be a discussion forum, but John Lear doesn't discuss! He makes wild statements about some subject, and when a valid challenge is made, he doesn't provide a counter-argument (which would be the point in a discussion), but resorts to one of his usual tactics:
- Simply repeating his original argument, ignoring any counter-arguments made
- Waiting for one of his "fans" to jump in
- Saying "No comment, and thanks for your post" (often in a rather snide way)
- Walking away without saying anything
I've seen this many times by now.

I would also add that I have never heard John say he was one of the three people who know where, exactly, in L.V. the stuff is supposed to be, am I missing something here?

Yes, you are. First, John never said that he wasn't one of those who know (I'm sure he can speak for himself). Second, even if he isn't one of the three, he definitely makes the impression that he knows (a) who they are, and (b) where the hiding place is ("Downtown LV"). These are two strong leads for someone who claims to investigate conspiracies! Why doesn't he follow those leads to uncover the conspiracy of the century?

I stand by my point: It's all either a very bad joke, or ... worse

Regards
yf

They are not the same questions. There is no where on this site where John claims if he is one of the people who knws where 115 is. (Even you stated that) He never claimed he did, or doesn't. Valid question. Followup question, if you do know where 115 is (which would blow the lid off the whole conspiracy), why not come forward with it... once again never DIRECTLY answered. These are valid questions for someone who claims to know where to find the proof UFOS exist and the government is covering them up. Another question, If Lazlar really did steal government secrets...why does he continue to have classified goverment research handed to him... never DIRECTLY answered. Actually read his answers, they are not answers at all. None of these questions have been answered to anyones satisfaction. Why not? Do you not think these are valid questions for someone making the claims John makes? Isn't this what ATS is here for? To deny ignorance. Do we just allow people to make these claims without questioning them, or asking for evidence. John is the one who claims to have evidence... that's the problem. His claims not ours... how are these, along woth the hundred other questions he doesn't answer not valid questions?

[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

Originally posted by johnlear
Bob was very critical of Coleman for their use of a highly dangerous radioactive element in their mantles. He was always complaining that no government agency ever took Coleman to task for this deliberate and dangerous practice.

To be fair, alpha particles aren't dangerous unless ingested, for the most part.

Originally posted by johnlear
I was also waiting to confirm that the element did indeed emit gamma, alpha and beta particles which all radiation sources do.

Radiation sources such as the one in the Coleman mantel and the one that Bob used for the Element 115 experiment emit all three particles and these particles travel extremely fast outward from the source.

So in answer to your question:

"And how did you get your Coleman lantern mantle to give off alpha particles, anyway? Maybe I missed it."

All radiation sources radiate these particles.

Huh? All radiation sources don't give off the same sort of radiation. They can give off alpha, beta, gamma, or even positrons. An element only goes through one type of decay, though something it decays into can go through another sort of decay, giving off another sort of radiation.

I guess I understand what you mean, though, that something in the lanterns used to emit alpha radiation.

Originally posted by johnlear
In answer to your question:

How did you measure the alpha particle to know that it diverted its path, or however you described it?

Its wasn't measured. All radiation particles travel outward at a very high rate of speed. If it makes a u-turn shortly after leaving the source then something extremelyt powerful is making it divert its course. In the case of the element 115 the alpha particle did a 90 degree turn directly into the Element 115.

Well by measure, I also mean observe.

Basically, I'm asking how you knew they turned. You (or someone else) had to have seen them somehow, and I'm lost as to how this was done.