Element 115 question

Originally posted by yfxxx

I best liked this posting - I think I should print it and bring it to the next party where any real physicists are. Should raise the fun big time

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What and let your colleagues know you’ve been hanging out on a conspiracy web site? Oh the horror!

Originally posted by yfxxx

Anyway, while reading the whole thread it twice seemed as if postings (which apparently countered JL) by a member named "Access Denied" had been deleted. Talk about censorship

!

That wasn’t censorship… Simon Gray accidentally deleted all my posts and threads while he was fixing a problem with my account. Why he wasn’t fired for that I’m not sure.

Thanks for noticing though… I did however get a chance to refine my explanation more recently in another 115 thread (I could look it up for if you like?) to show that the theoretical models have been proven to be correct empirically with data obtained from the recent synthesis of two different isotopes of 115… no isotope of 115 will last longer than 4 minutes or so anywhere in the Universe.

[Translation: Bob Lazar never had any 115… period.]

Originally posted by yfxxx

In fact, I actually believe you that you tell the story as you remember it happening. Because by now I think the most likely explanation for the whole mess is that you've been had big time by Bob Lazar!

Maybe it went this way: For whatever reason, Bob had the idea to get big in the "UFO business". And he knew you were (a) already somewhat of a "celebrity" in the field, and (b) ... err ... easily convinved

(i.e. gullible). So he told you a big yarn of Element 115, saucers and all this. He made up impressive-sounding pseudo-physics ("Gravity A", decay to anti-matter, etc.) for "115". He knew that you have no clue at all about nuclear physics, so you wouldn't doubt anything he said.

Something tells me you might be right.

Say John, how many of the people in this photograph do you know personally?



AD

Originally posted by johnlear
PBS ran a show last night featuring Bob and United Nuclear.
You can see it on line here:
www.pbs.org...

It would figure that PBS would have Bob Lazar and Professors from Caltech on the same program but never once ask the most important question; Do any of them actually remember him when he got his MS in Electronics there???

Clearly PBS is stifling the truth!


p.s. I do believe, although I'm not quite sure that in one of the shots at Caltech I saw Stanton Friedman furiously digging through a file cabinet looking for Bob's Element 115 hidden in his admission records, but I guess he hasn't figured out that surely they must be invisible, providing the best hiding spot. I think he's on to you guys!

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by omnicron

Wow, talking about kicking the guy while he's down.

Well as much as I don't agree with John Lear's so called 'facts', I feel bad about you guys putting him down the way that you guys did.

Even if the stuff that he say in here is considered ridiculous, you don't have the right of putting him down like that.

You guys are cruel. Leave the old man alone.

Thanks omnicron, its OK. The more they kick and scream and screw themselves up into ceiling the more I know I am on the right track. Its always the same guys, nothing ever changes. yfxxx huddles with his fellow dropouts at the hauptbahnhoff beer parlor anxiously waiting for Oktoberfest.

If you knew those people like I know them you would understand they just can't help themselves. They're just like that and nobody is going to tell them anything.

Thanks again for the kind words omnicrom.

Time and time again i have read posts by john lear and time and time again i watch him spew forth nonsense and people eat it up,now ATS people are just the best and brightest people i have seen on any board in sometime people who want the truth and approach subjects with skeptical optimism and those who oppose lears views are met with contempt by his followers and sycophantic praise by lear and those who oppose lears words and theories are met by half baked lear reponses for instance he picks and chooses the reponses he makes ignoring or deflecting well thought politely posed questions then offering condescending words. and another said he was a unwillingly or inccidental disinfo agennt but i disagree he is very willingly because he posts vague threads with often little or no credible sources to back them up.

So someone allegedly knows where a world changing piece of material is, yet wont say where it is for fear of upsetting a friend eh?

Wait please, whilst I wipe up my vomit.

Originally posted by johnlear

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)

(excerpts)

Product Identification: Thorium Oxide

IV. REACTVITY DATA

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Thorium oxide dust, thoron daughters, alpha, beta and gamma radiation.

Ah, I see, thanks. What isotope, 232? This matters for the decay chain. If it is, I see where the gamma and beta emissions are coming from - elements/isotopes further down in the chain (which exist concurrently). Only thing is that Thorium-232's half-life is about 14,050,000,000 years, meaning I don't think there would be a significant amount of decay products to give off that much radiation.

I could be wrong, of course, and it might not be that isotope.

Originally posted by Access Denied
That wasn’t censorship… Simon Gray accidentally deleted all my posts and threads while he was fixing a problem with my account. Why he wasn’t fired for that I’m not sure.

Thanks for the clarification. I just wondered ...

Thanks for noticing though… I did however get a chance to refine my explanation more recently in another 115 thread (I could look it up for if you like?) to show that the theoretical models have been proven to be correct empirically with data obtained from the recent synthesis of two different isotopes of 115… no isotope of 115 will last longer than 4 minutes or so anywhere in the Universe.

Interesting. Anyway, a half-life of 4 minutes is still long for a Z=115 nucleus (I assume, this isotope needs much more neutrons than those which were synthesized so far). I'm not sure, but I think I read about even longer theoretical halflifes for some even-Z (116, 118) nuclei.

[Translation: Bob Lazar never had any 115… period.]

I know !

Regards
yf

I rarely post in any other sense than a comical fashion to lighten the tension of a thread ^_^, but for once im going to be serious. For a moment and I will play devil's advocate for both sides. On John's side, to prove himself would be to betray a friendship and his own reliability there of, not to mention he would probably be killed by any number of business or government bodies who wish to keep the oil money flowing for themselves and/or constituents. Now on ITF and others side, if he doesnt materialize proof there is no way of them having any way of furthering the research into the topic of the thread or its believability.

Now that i have been serious, I will end on a lighter note.

ALWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE..... (MONTY PYTHON)

Originally posted by Access Denied
Thanks for noticing though… I did however get a chance to refine my explanation more recently in another 115 thread (I could look it up for if you like?) to show that the theoretical models have been proven to be correct empirically with data obtained from the recent synthesis of two different isotopes of 115… no isotope of 115 will last longer than 4 minutes or so anywhere in the Universe.

Looked up your post, and followed the link. According to this theoretically calculated table, the longest living Z=115 (Uup) isotope is Uup-310 with a halflife of 4 days. Impressive, but still way too short for any chunk of Uup to live very long .

Regards
yf

reply to post by Karl7772000


I see what you're saying Karl, but some people here really believe in this type of stuff. I mean really believe, and they're intelligent, and have good reason to believe. If I were in Johns situation I'm afraid to say I'd betray the friendship immediately to get this evidence out there, they could try to kill me, I'd still do it.
You have to understand that if what we are speculating about here is true it would be LIFE changing. It would change everything.
What possible reason could you have for hiding the evidence?
If it's for fear of death, then get in touch with me. I'll come up there and if you've got a good map and this 115 element is still there I'll come back with it or die trying. This isn't just big internet talk, I'm serious. I would expect most people who believe in aliens etc to do this. Surely this would be one of the things in life worth dying for ?

I'm sure this is one of the reasons why it's hard to believe John. Most of the people here would do anything to get that type of evidence ( especially when it is seemingly so close ). Most of the people here would've been watching when the 115 was being experimented on.

Originally posted by RedEyes
Surely this would be one of the things in life worth dying for ?

Without a doubt. If given the chance to write my own legacy as a person directly responsible for the end of billions of people's suffering.....In a New York minute...

In my opinion, the alternative would be cowardice. Of course, this presumes the stuff exists and I'm simply not blowing smoke up the Internet's butt.

Originally posted by yfxxx

Looked up your post, and followed the link. According to this theoretically calculated table, the longest living Z=115 (Uup) isotope is Uup-310 with a halflife of 4 days. Impressive, but still way too short for any chunk of Uup to live very long

.

Oops! 4 days, 4 minutes, what's the difference?

Thanks for looking that up and for the correction.

I concur, picking an odd numbered Z should have been a big red flag,

Regards,

AD

Off topic posts are being deleted.

If you don't like the way we attempt to enforce civility then I suggest you try another board. If you think enforcing civility is "supporting Lear's theories" well, I don't know what to tell you other than the ONLY thing ATS supports is Lear's ability to share his experiences with those who want to read them and those who want to question him POLITELY.

BACK ON TOPIC please...

Springer...

But this quote from John is civil and okay then:

"The more they kick and scream and screw themselves up into ceiling the more I know I am on the right track. Its always the same guys, nothing ever changes. yfxxx huddles with his fellow dropouts at the hauptbahnhoff beer parlor anxiously waiting for Oktoberfest."

Gotcha...

reply to post by b309302



Hadn't seen that one, thanks for the heads up...

edit: and since I can't find it, I'll scold John here:

John DON'T call people "drop outs", it's not acceptable and it won't be tolerated. We expect a HIGHER level of decorum from our CMs no matter how many angry pixels they must endure.

You know that resorting to childish name calling is the sign of a weak mind that has run out of data or a mind that hasn't matured enough to engage in civil debate.


For everyone else, the next OFF TOPIC post will earn the poster a 3 day break from posting... ENOUGH

Springer...


[edit on 10-6-2007 by Springer]

]Originally posted by Springer

John DON'T call people "drop outs", it's not acceptable and it won't be tolerated. We expect a HIGHER level of decorum from our CMs no matter how many angry pixels they must endure.

You know that resorting to childish name calling is the sign of a weak mind that has run out of data or a mind that hasn't matured enough to engage in civil debate.

You are correct. Please accept my apologies. Yes, a Conspiracy Master should present a higher level of decorum no matter the provocation.

And yfxxx, please accept my apologies for the inaccurate post.

Originally posted by johnlear
And yfxxx, please accept my apologies for the inaccurate post.

Accepted.

So I'll try it one last time:
John, how do you explain the obvious contradiction between your (and Lazar's) story, that Bob Lazar stole and betrayed one of the government's biggest secrets, and the indisputable fact, that Bob's United Nuclear company still does classified government work?

No viable conspiracy theory should have such blatant holes without offering at least some kind of explanation. A verifiable explanation would be even better.

So far, you didn't even try to answer this question, let alone offer a plausible theory.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by yfxxx

John, how do you explain the obvious contradiction between your (and Lazar's) story, that Bob Lazar stole and betrayed one of the government's biggest secrets, and the indisputable fact, that Bob's United Nuclear company still does classified government work?

I would respectfully suggest that Bob is extremely talented and that whoever hired him back was willing to let bygones be bygones just for the privilege of getting Bob back.

-OR-

Bob is working for a completely different division of the government that doesn't have the slightest idea that S-4 or Element 115 really exist. Therefore it would not even enter into their decision to hire Bob for whatever work he is doing.

-OR-

Bob is an alien that can make the government do whatever he wants. If he wants a job repairing alpha probes then he just puts that thought into their minds and he gets the job. We know he is repairing alpha probes because we saw them in the PBS special. And I helped him repair enough of them that I know what he is doing.

-OR-

Bob is an alien and he is putting the thought in our minds that he not only has his own Scientific Supply Company but that we also works with the government on secret projects. In reality Bob boards and raises horses in Sandia Park, New Mexico.

-OR-

Bobs original job with the government was to make John Lear believe that Bob worked on flying saucers and that he had Element 115. When John was fully convinced Bob moved to New Mexico claiming, "Lear is an idiot to have believed all that." Meanwhile in return for the disinformation work on John Lear, the government gave Bob a scientific supply company in Sandia Park and a few little contracts to keep him busy.

-OR-

Bob and John made up the whole story of S-4, the flying saucers and Element 115. Over the years they made a bundle. Lear retired from aviation and bought a gold mine. Bob moved to Sandia Park and set himself up in a scientific supply company which his wife Joy really runs while Bob shovels horse droppings out of the stables.

Take you pick, yfxxx. These are my best guesses.

Originally posted by johnlear
Take you pick, yfxxx. These are my best guesses.

Ok ...

I would respectfully suggest that Bob is extremely talented and that whoever hired him back was willing to let bygones be bygones just for the privilege of getting Bob back.

-OR-

Bob is working for a completely different division of the government that doesn't have the slightest idea that S-4 or Element 115 really exist. Therefore it would not even enter into their decision to hire Bob for whatever work he is doing.

No, these two are unfalsifiable "conspiracy-type" theories, which don't sound plausible at all. No matter how "talented" he is or what any government agency knows (or doesn't know), at least one government agency would know he's a traitor and would put him in jail (or worse!) and not in business.

Bob is an alien [...]

-OR-

Bob is an alien [...]

Nice jokes, but nothing more .

Bobs original job with the government was to make John Lear believe that Bob worked on flying saucers and that he had Element 115. When John was fully convinced Bob moved to New Mexico claiming, "Lear is an idiot to have believed all that." Meanwhile in return for the disinformation work on John Lear, the government gave Bob a scientific supply company in Sandia Park and a few little contracts to keep him busy.

I think I'd buy that one . Seems to fit all provable facts nicely.

On the other hand, the last idea ...

Bob and John made up the whole story of S-4, the flying saucers and Element 115. Over the years they made a bundle. Lear retired from aviation and bought a gold mine. Bob moved to Sandia Park and set himself up in a scientific supply company which his wife Joy really runs while Bob shovels horse droppings out of the stables.

... sounds equally plausible - except for the last half sentence (wife running business, Bob shovelling manure) .

So, I admit that the last two options you offered are good explanations. Unfortunately, of course, they are the ones in which the whole "115" story is bunk. John, what do you honestly believe is the true explanation? Or do you admit that you have no real idea (which you really believe) how to reconcile Bob's alleged past with his current business?

Regards
yf

i]Originally posted by Access Denied

Say John, how many of the people in this photograph do you know personally?

Bob Lazar is the alien guy on the left. The short guy in the middle is Waldo Stakes and the tall one in the right is Ken Mason.

Waldo is the owner of the Sonic Wind rocket powered ice sled ( www.sonicwind.com... ).

Ken is a mainstream rocket designer who works freelance for most of the major rocket companies (Boeing, Rocketdyne, etc) and designed the propulsion system for the Sonic Wind sled and is working on their new rocket vehicle, the 'Freedom SRV'.

They brought the rocket sled to Desert Blast a couple of times for a test firing.

I may have seen them there but I don’t remember them all that well.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by zeroeffect

it seems that a few of my posts have been deleted because springer deems them off topic and when i politely asked how they were off topic they were met with deletion isnt that a definition of cover up? to come to the aide of john lear then delete posts that are not only on topic but put lear in a questionable light. i wonder how long this post will last untill its deleted

Thanks for the post zeroeffect. If you have a question for me that is off topic for the thread please ask it on Questions For John Lear. I will answer it there.

Thanks again for the post.