Is China declaring war on America?

My take is the PLA is more interested in power than in money so at some point they will move into the middle east
they didnt rape Tibet for nothing

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan

Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist
Socialism/Communism in it PURE form, is actually a great thing.
Think about it, no money, everything is free, everyone works together for the greater good.

You do realize that you would own nothing.

you do realize that 5% currently own 95% of US wealth, effectivly you own very little, and if you think you own your house look up eminent domain and see that if a capitalist wants to build a condo their they take your house. And if you are average, you don't own it you are in debt to that same 5%.

Everything is run by the government ...

What is the differance if 95% of wealth is owned by the state, or 95% of wealth is owned by corporations and the few that run those corporations.
In socialism that few are (theoretically) elected by the people to decide how those resources are spent. In capitalism the stock holders vote to elect CEO's one dollar one vote then they decide how that wealth and assets are used. So in Capitalism the rich rule. This is not democracy

You work your butt off to pay for others.
Sorry, but I will stick to capitalism where what I earn is mine except to pay for some essential services like the military.

You do know that when you work your butt off for a company. Your work generates a proffit, that proffit created from your work is then given to people who may have never set foot in your company, they simply own stock, They litterally have bought with money the proceeds of your work. They however do not work, they live off of your work.

Why should I pay for some lazy sack of garbage?

My point exactly, why are you paying for a rich person who is not working at your company, why does he get to make money off of your work? while you make it off of actually doing the work?

He does it because that is our system, and through his money writes the laws of that system, and teaches people his view point of that system. Imagine this, you went all the way through school, and this post is the very first time you heard an alternate argument to Capitalism. amazing isn't it.

Many socialist marxist regimes turn to authoritarian in part to combat money trying to crush them. They shut down media because money steps in buys all the media and starts telling fairy tails about freedom and fairness. So the official sets up a state media to educate from the other side of view, and closes some media.

The Media in the US is owned by rich and keeps telling you one point of view, I on my 500$ computer offer you the other. Not saying which is right, just giving you the oppurtunity to, possibly for the first time in your life, think about what capitalism is.

[edit on 22-9-2007 by Redge777]

[edit on 22-9-2007 by Redge777]

reply to post by Redge777


"Whomever owns the media,owns the truth."

So what we have been waging our covert war with them too.

Ours on the economic social political spectrum as well.

China has already been forced to start opening up its markets and adopt capitalism.

A middle class is forming and with more and more information getting into the country its communist government is losing control.

They can hurt our economy, but we can destroy theirs.

These issues could be as simple as US companies that source China to produce goods are cutting costs and corners for profit and the Chinese are not to blame. I think its rather irresponsible to blame China as a whole for these issues until you look at the companies sourcing the goods. Also I would think there would be some sort of American based quality control for all these items.

On the whole you found some items that are dangerous, that's not a big deal when you consider the millions of safe products to come out of China. In the end you get what you pay for which is why I avoid buying Chinese made stuff over all. Best quality seems to come out of the US or Mexico for manufactured goods IMO.

reply to post by marg6043


i think theres a valid point to your opinion, wars can be fought in very different subtle ways.
the idea was put to me that the chain mcdonalds has more stores in china than anywhere else and that a key factor was real estate, also part of the result is that china has the fastest rising level of obesity than the entire west.
i was told this by a high ranking doctor at the head of a big global company both will remain nameless, truth is stranger than fiction and who would honestly consider mcdonalds a weapon of war?

The *Chinese* wouldn't dare declare war on the United States, even if the United States helps Taiwan, because if China does, then they wouldnl;t stand a chance

--------------------------------------------------
Replaced racial slur

Plase read Courtesy is mandatory

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 3/10/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by Vexacus
The chinks wouldn't dare declare war on the United States, even if the United States helps Taiwan, because if China does, then they wouldnl;t stand a chance

Oh good, someone's willing to discuss military strategy with me.

I'll argue for china, you can argue for america.

Please explain to me how china 'wouldn't stand a chance'.

I hope you remember that they're supposedly democratic now, so you can't rely on the democracy vs communism/fascism strategy here.

And nukes are not a solution.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by Throbber]

The US is the most powerfull nation on Earth, that and the fact that if China delcared war on the US, then the US and her allies would cream *them*

[edit on 2-10-2007 by Vexacus]

--------------------------------------
Replaced racial slur

Please read Courtesy is mandatory

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 3/10/07 by masqua]

reply to post by Vexacus


That's 1.3 billion of em tho, they could almost throw throw apples at the rest of the world till they give up - if it were to happen it wouldn't be a push over and would very likely involve strategic nukes.

China knows that if they attack the US, the US and her allies will cream *them*

-------------------------------
removed racial slur

Please read Courtesy is mandatory

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 3/10/07 by masqua]

While is not way that China militarily can take out US in our own backyard, is also true that is not way US can take china without the best fight US will ever have in its humble and scarce history.

And is not way in hell that US can invade china.

But the war been wag right now is not with military weaponry or shock and awe but a war in the economy sector.

China is fighting and using the greed of corporate America and the need to finance wars in the middle east to take away Americas superpower status when it comes to the economic leader of the world.

What the OP is talking about is the poor quality goods from China that the public seem to be lapping up. This isn't part of a plan to 'get' the USA it is what you get as a result of capitalism running unchecked.

OK, lets pick an example, the baby's crib. This is a product that is in a particularly price conscious market. When you have had a baby, do you have huge amount of money to spend on an article that is ultimately going to become defunct? Some people do but the majority of people are very definitely on a budget.

Imagine now you are the CEO of a company that wants to sell cribs. You know the above about the market so you consider that it really would be a niche market to go for that platinum coated crib hand made by PHDs. Instead you think that a more appropriate one would be a cheap, budget model that you can sell a lot of.

OK, where do you go to buy a crib to sell on to the public. US domestic manufacturing is not interested in this kind of thing any more because high material costs, high overheads, unionised labour, safety standards, welfare rights etc means that you cannot make these 'low capital value' products efficiently anymore and turn a profit. On the other hand the consumer is asking for lower and lower prices and the retailer is expecting bigger and bigger profits, with a market that is getting squeezed in both directions like that, something has to give.

I have worked with the Chinese for a long time and been there many times. When you do business with them they are very efficient at producing things if you tell them EXACTLY what you want. If there is any unclear part of a specification then this will be exploited by providing the cheapest, worst solution. Not through any evil intention, this is just good business sense. Western contractors have been doing the same for centuries and certainly un English law as long as that 'lesser thing' does not break other laws it is perfectly legal.

The problem is amplified with a culture clash between the 'keep our children in a germ free / cotton wool wrapped bubble' west and Asia which is more relaxed about these things. They do not always see the things that we in the west will panic about. I live in Asia and sometimes I do think that we Westerners are too uptight about stuff. Lead paint for instance.

We all know that lead is bad for you and in the UK, if you find lead paint in your house you are supposed to get special contractors in to remove it as it is seen as hazardous waste. In reality, lead based paint was used for centuries with no direct link to anything harmful. This kind of reasoning works... 'we know lead is bad and we have to reduce risk so lead based paint is bad'. This is not quite as hazardous as having a gun in the house as I am sure that there has been more deaths from accidental discharge of firearms than poisoning from lead paint.

Ask yourself this, do you think that the publics drive for absolute safety and the cost increases we have all suffered, along with the loss of jobs to markets less concerned was beneficial compared to the apparent increase in safety we have now. Just because things don't meet our ultra-conservative safety standards does that make them unsafe or just not in compliance with a standard?

We should also ask ourselves that if we do expect things to be ultra-safe, should we expect to get them at knock down, drag out prices from Walmart?

You can't have your cake and eat it.

I declare personal war on china as soon as they sent us toys with lead in them. I declared when they sent us bad food. I'm convinced they are trying to kill us, and infect us with a virus. Honestly would not be surprised.

Originally posted by EJHoover
What the OP is talking about is the poor quality goods from China that the public seem to be lapping up. This isn't part of a plan to 'get' the USA it is what you get as a result of capitalism running unchecked.

[snip]

We should also ask ourselves that if we do expect things to be ultra-safe, should we expect to get them at knock down, drag out prices from Walmart?

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Great post!


You've expressed a lot of insight into what's actually going on.
This is the real story, once you reject the mass-media fear feed.

This is one of the main flaws in capitalism. It does NOT promote better quality products, it promotes cutting corners and lowering standards to produce cheaper products. Only regulation can ensure that the people are protected. If some dangerous goods were being shipped over from China and sold to the Western public, it means there was a failure of government to enforce their standards.

I suspect what's really going on is that American manufacturers are declaring a (propaganda) war against those who buy inexpensive Chinese goods and/or Western retailers are attempting to shift the blame for selling things that do not meet regulated standards (and thus should be charged).

The Chinese, while being Commies, have neither the will nor the 'nads to take on the worlds only super-power. And I apologise for the comments tghat were editied out, I meant no offence

reply to post by Vexacus


No they will not, and you are right about that, at least not militarily but trust me they are doing more than enough right now economically while unifying with Russia, maybe Japan and Iran.

Originally posted by Vexacus
The Chinese, while being Commies, have neither the will nor the 'nads to take on the worlds only super-power. And I apologise for the comments tghat were editied out, I meant no offence

I think so as well, but teamed up with Russia, they might change their minds quick.

Originally posted by Vexacus
I apologise for the comments tghat were editied out, I meant no offence

Really?
That's very strange. Do you mean that you don't consider the terms you used to be offensive by their very nature?

Just a bit of advice... don't use generalized terms like those if you want to be taken seriously. It's poor form and hurts any valid point you might have. I suggest avoiding "Commies" too. These are expressions that are used by un-informed people to make them feel better about the fact that they don't know anything about the issue.

Communism, btw, is really no worse than Capitalism. It has unfortunately been very poorly implemented for the most part, but the same can be said for Capitalism which is the root cause for so much strife in the world right now.

As I mentioned in a previous post, it is natural under a capitalistic system for substandard and poor quality products to become the norm. Capitalism gives manufactures and producers NO incentive to produce quality goods... merely "good enough" goods. Savings made by using cheap materials and poor manufacturing increase the company's profits. The modus operandi of any business under capitalism is to produce crap and over charge for it... unless there is competition. In that case, both companies attempt to do as little as possible to seem like they are producing a higher quality product.

Under Communism (in it's non-actualized ideal form), the state is much more free to impose quality standards. Since profit isn't the main motivation, there is much less of a gap between quality and price.

I restate that most of the issue with substandard goods being imported from China is the fault of the distributors and retailers who are increasing their bottom line by bloating the price on low quality goods without any concern for the consuming public.

I know using that other word was racist, but calling them Communists is true, as they are Communists. I hope Taiwan does declare independence because if and WHEN they do, the DPRC(Democratic Peoples republic of Communists) wouldn't dare take action against Taiwan and the United States as China has to much to loose. And speaking of Japan, I hope they repeal their constitution and have a standing army, airforce and Navy. The chinese have already said they are against that, but there's not much they can do is there.