The Sister Lucia of Fatima Who Died Recently was not the Real Sister Lucia: Compelling Evidence!

I read that the real Lucy had light brown eyes. -- correction.. that was Jacinta. See quote below.
Lucia 2, the impostor has very dark eyes as you can see in her color photo's here in this thread.
I'll look up that book that said what color her eyes were and post here in a few minutes.
----------------------------------------- I'm back....
I did read somewhere where someone said her eyes were light brown but I can't locate it. It might have been talking about one of the other 2 seers. Probably so... Lucia 1's eyes look dark in those old photo's.

But here's a description of her by a priest:

Father De Marchi described her features in the following manner: "She was not a pretty child. The only attractions of her face — which was not on the whole repellent — were her two great black eyes which gazed out from under thick eyebrows. Her hair, thick and dark, was parted in the center over her shoulders. Her nose was rather flat, her lips thick and her mouth large

en.wikipedia.org...


Jacinta was the one with light colored eyes -- here's what her mother said about her...

"She wasn't as plump as Francisco," her mother reports. "Her eyes were light in colour and brighter than my own when I was young. She liked to have her hair tidy and I used to do it for her every day. A little jacket and a cotton skirt and shoes were what she wore each day, for I was always able to keep my children shod."

source: www.ewtn.com...


[edit on 22-9-2007 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by InTrueFiction

The one thing that keeps me on my toes still is the chin. Old age can do a lot to a person's features but the young Sister Lucia's chin was extremely inwards - a trait that I (in my ignorance) would expect to stay with her for the rest of her life. On the other hand The older Sister Lucia has an extremely outwards chin... a trait I would expect would have been hers for her entire life. I will investigate this further and try to study a more accurate conclusion. For now I leave a question - regarding the profile pictures is this type of change in chin phisiology normal with age?

[edit on 22-9-2007 by InTrueFiction]

I think receding chins recede even more as one ages -- at least from my observations of actors and actresses who have that kind of chin where we've watched them age through the years in thier movies or tv shows... Carol Burnett's chin definitely looked like it was receding more so that's why she got that awful chin implant put in.... but I've never seen anyone who was born with a severe receding chin like Lucia 1's where in old age it morphs into a jutting Hapsburg jaw/chin like what we are seeing on Lucia 2 in her photographs.

reply to post by cw034


Thanks for the source. Some really good info in there. I am a practicing Catholic and it really gives me pause to think. I am really concerned about the current condition and direction of the Church.
Again, great source ....I left you a star.

reply to post by Palasheea


Much appreciate the links.

Have the books arrived yet? What have you learned so far, in summary?

The more one reads, the more it seems . . . AT BEST quite problematic . . . I think all organized even Christian groups--and all the worse old such edifices . . .

end up with horrific hypocrisies; heresies; corruptions; distortions; etc.

Short of some serious ONGOING close monitoring and constant returning to the foundational truths and principles . . . I think any such organization older than about a year and a half is likely already going down some sort of slippery slope in terms of truth and practice.

But these revelations and allegations are plenty sobering. I'd love for you to summarize the sequences and mile posts of your transitions in studying such revelations.

Blessings and God's best to you and yours. If you want a faster response, you might U2U me. I don't always check my subscribed threads daily, by any means.

Has anyone thought about this as the third secret. It wasn't to be revealed until 1960 because of the lack of understanding. Maybe the vision was a nuclear war with Russia. 1917 no one knew what a nuclear bomb was and we wouldn't understand why there would be a nuclear war until the Cuban missle crisis. Maybe that is what was ment by Russia converting. Maybe behind the scenes war was actually prevented.

Originally posted by seentoomuch
young Lucy was dark olive skinned and in later photos she looks fair. Is that normal for a Portuguese person?

It is if the young person spends all her time outside in the sun tending sheep and as an older person spends all her time covered in a habit and living inside a cloister - YES, that's perfectly normal.

Pictures of me as a teen show me nice and tan with very blonde hair - due to being in the sun alot and my lifeguarding job. Now that I'm MUCH older, my skin is much lighter and my hair is much darker.

Originally posted by seentoomuch
Hi FF,

Hi seentoomuch.

We would not even be discussing this topic if it wasn’t so obvious that there had been a replacement of the true Lucy;

Frankly I see no 'replacement'. Just a person naturally changing with age and differences in pictures due to different angles.

I stand by the total change of her demeanor, her looks, and her specifics on the messages from Mary.

- Her 'demeanor' changed with age and time in a cloistered religious environment where she had to do what she was told. Totally understandable.

- Any change to her looks are due to age - and dentures.

- Her specifics on the messages of Mary did NOT change - except for the one mention of picking a date to reveal the third secret.

It's the same Lucia. No change. No imposter.

Uh oh. Now I'm really confused. It's got to do with the color of Lucia's eyes.
In my last post on this, I quoted from a book written about Fatima by a priest who met the children and said that Lucia had "great black eyes".

But just as I thought before where I said that I read somewhere where the person said that her eyes were pale brown... turns out I was right. I found that source where I read that. A Dr. Walsh, who interviewed Lucia in 1946, gave us a description of what she looked like -- she was 39 at the time. He says that her eyes were a pale brown -- see excerpt below:




[edit on 23-9-2007 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by Palasheea
I quoted from a book written about Fatima by a priest who met the children and said that Lucia had "great black eyes".

Poetic liscense. Drama. Writing for visual effect. All writers do it.
Priests are no different. "Great black eyes' sounds more effective
and gets more attention than 'pale brown' does.

Well, the point I'm trying to get at is, as you can see from Lucia 2's photographs on the right, she's got very dark eyes -- in those photo's they look black/brown. Many people end up with lighter eye colors due to pigmentation loss when they get to be in thier 70's and older. But this woman's eye color apparently never changed -- so it seems. I'm just saying that Lucia 2's eye color most definitely is not a pale brown.
The photo on the left shows what pale brown looks like. And regardless if someone has pale blue, grey, green ...you name it...pale is pale. Lucia 2's eye color in her color photographs are a very dark black/brown.




[edit on 23-9-2007 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea


I forgot to comment about the "great black eyes".

Although it's obviously possible that she had black eyes, I have never seen in my whole life (44 years) a person with black eyes, they are extremely rare in Portugal.

I have seen people with violet eyes, with eyes that are blue in the centre and change gradually to green and light brown, and I have seen an old woman with a blue eye and a light brown eye.

Here's another photo of Lucia 2 -- it's a black and white photo but one can still see that this person's eye color is very dark -- these are dark eyes... not pale eyes as was the description by a medical doctor who interviewed her in person in 1946 when she was 39 yrs. old.






[edit on 23-9-2007 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by duster
reply to post by cw034

 

Thanks for the source. Some really good info in there. I am a practicing Catholic and it really gives me pause to think. I am really concerned about the current condition and direction of the Church.
Again, great source ....I left you a star.

Yes, it is very disturbing. Thanks for your comments and the star!

reply to post by Palasheea


In one of those photos is visible that she had brown eyes.



Knowing if they were like we see them on that photo or lighter is difficult, that type of thing can only be seen in the presence of the person, the photo may change a lot the difference in shade of a person's eyes.

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Much appreciate the links.

Have the books arrived yet? What have you learned so far, in summary?

The more one reads, the more it seems . . . AT BEST quite problematic . . . I think all organized even Christian groups--and all the worse old such edifices . . .

end up with horrific hypocrisies; heresies; corruptions; distortions; etc.

Short of some serious ONGOING close monitoring and constant returning to the foundational truths and principles . . . I think any such organization older than about a year and a half is likely already going down some sort of slippery slope in terms of truth and practice.

But these revelations and allegations are plenty sobering. I'd love for you to summarize the sequences and mile posts of your transitions in studying such revelations.

Blessings and God's best to you and yours. If you want a faster response, you might U2U me. I don't always check my subscribed threads daily, by any means.

Bo Xian,
You're welcome!
Also...
I ordered those books express and one will be coming in on Tues of this week and the other will be here by Weds.
I'll be reading the Celestial Secrets book this Tues. I'll share the information on what's in that book in this thread. I'll do the same with the other book too. I'm interested in finding out how the Jesuits were involved in covering up some important details about what happened in Fatima and what the seers actually saw and what those original reports are saying in them. And, of course, I'm interested in finding out more about why the authors of these books believe that the Fatima event is actually a UFO/contactee event rather than a religious one.

In the meantime, I'm reading over the first Fatima book, written by a priest. It's a free online book. I've read parts of it before in the past but just want to review the Church's version of this story again -- detail by detail.

You said...
"I'd love for you to summarize the sequences and mile posts of your transitions in studying such revelations."

I'll do that! Thanks for the suggestion! I'll u2u you when that information is posted here in this thread!



[edit on 23-9-2007 by Palasheea]

Armap... no doubt about it -- it's hard to tell if her eyes are really light, medium or dark brown just by going by these photographs.... at least with any certainty.

But having said this, it really does look to me that this nun who claims to be Sister Lucia does not have pale brown eyes -- I'm not seeing that in her photographs but this is just my own opinion and nothing more.

I would like to see if I can find some more first hand reports on her eye color. So far I've one source that's saying her eyes were very dark -- and another source who met her in person for 3 hrs who said that her eyes were a pale light brown. So this is confusing. If I find any more information on this I'll post it here in this thread.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea


Some people knew here personaly, I have seen a photo of some investigator that I suppose was investigating crucifications and that has on his page a photo of himself visiting Sister Lucy.

I have also seen a photo of Mel Gibson visiting her, but it was a very bad photo from a newspaper.

Great! I'll check out those artcles to see if they go into any physical descriptions of her. I do recall Mel Gibson visiting her... will read over that information on that. Thanks!

Thank you very much for this wonderful thread!!!

It is 100% obvious that old woman and the younger are two different people. I have not read thru the entire thread (I will) but what reason could they have to keep "her" alive?

I always doubted it was the same person and lo and behold ,you put them both together and there is NO similarity at all!!!

Why?

Well, according to Lucia 1, BVM said to her that the Pope was to reveal the 3rd Secret either at her death or in 1960 -- which ever came first.

There's information that she died sometime between 1958 or 1959 -- yet, the Vatican never announced her death because they didn't want to reveal the 3rd Secret to the public at that time.

Then in 1960, the Vatican made an official announcement to the public saying that they have decided not to reveal the 3rd Secret.

The first 2 secrets were not released until 1942 where they prophesied things AFTER THE FACT.

So it could be that the Vatican chose the same route for the 3rd Secret too. Because whatever was in that secret had not come to pass yet, they chose not to reveal it to the public.

But then in 2000, John Paul decided to release the 3rd secret because they were able to correlate it with, in this case, his assassination attempt. So Bingo! Another prophecy comes true hence further confirmation of the Church's infallibility in saying which Marian Visitations are valid or not. A lot of money flows directly to the Church from the Fatima Shrine. It's a big industry and revenues would have suffered if these 3 secrets turned out to be duds -- especially the third one.

So apparently, for reasons stated above, it was also to their benefit to have a Sister Lucia imposter to be there to support, confirm and validify their interpretation of the 3rd Fatima Secret.

The fact that they already botched things up, big time, by not revealing the 3rd Secret in 1960, is another reason why they chose the imposter route to save face.

The above information is only my tentative hypothesis on why the Church decided to have a Sister Lucia imposter. more to come...


[edit on 23-9-2007 by Palasheea]

Time for me to eat crow and admit I was wrong; there was only 1 Sr. Lucia. The reason for this change follows:

Just had a long phone conversation with Richard Salbato of www.unitypublishing.com and when I asked him about the 2 Lucias theory he made it very clear that there was only one Sr. Lucia. His reasons for this stance is based on:

1. He has met with Sr. Lucia 8 times and though the meetings were in her final years he feels strongly that it was the original Lucia due to his friendship with the nuns, several of whom knew Lucia from long ago. He specifically named Sr. Isabel, the porter for the convent who is in her nineties now but is still very sharp, who knew Lucia for many, many years;

2. Mr. Salbato who lived in the village of the children for several years would on occasion bring some of Lucia’s family members to visit her. They knew it was Lucia they were speaking with and they definitely would know if it were an impostor;

3. Mr. Salbato knew Sr. Lucia’s personal physician.

Based on this information I am convinced that there was one Sr. Lucia and I apologize to anyone who I have misled. I hope if ever anyone brings this theory out again that you share this post with them or have them visit Mr. Salbato’s site or email him.

Now on to the good news, Mr. Salbato is willing to visit the board and on occasion post some of his insights on the conspiracies we are discussing. His background is such that he has first hand knowledge in several conspiracies; also he has had contact with insiders on other conspiracies and has then followed through with a lot of research.

The main areas that he is following are: Religion/Visitations, Conspiracies in Religion and also a great deal of research on the Masons and their infiltration within the Church as well as the Mason’s/illuminati directing of world events.

Mr. Salbato was also a friend of Malachi Martin’s, he even sustains Martin’s website for him. They had some differences of opinion, for example Garabandal is not a valid visitation in Mr. Salbato’s view. He bases his opinion on meeting with Conchita of Garabandal many times.

He also told me that the book that Malachi was writing at the time of his death was on the Mason's infiltrating the church and believes his death was not natural, that he had been pushed down the stairs.

I asked him about the Satanists within the Vatican that Malachi had written of in his novel, “Windswept House” and that Malachi had said in interviews were actual events. Mr. Salbato agreed that the rituals had occurred and that according to his inside sources at the Vatican the Church had dealt with the perpetrators quietly. Some (including the leader) had been sent to serve the church in Iran. The leader had died after four years there. Others were sent to places just as unpleasant.

Also, the pedophilia within the church was discussed and he told me how the church handles that within their ranks, though I don't agree with their methods. He said that when they discover a bishop or priest that is a pedophile they usually promote them to the Vatican so that the Vatican can monitor who they have dealings with and uncover the whole network. He said that they moved too slowly to pull in the net and regret that. Their reason for the slowness is that they run what is larger than any govt. on the planet and it's difficult to work quickly. Mr. Salbato feels that this is still an ongoing problem.

As you can tell our discussion went on for quite a while, and I hope to continue our discussions for many years, he is a fascinating person who works diligently to get to the truth and I hope one day he publishes the information he has uncovered in a book. His site in the meantime is an excellent resource for conspiracies and he welcomes emails and will do his best to answer though he is a very busy man as you can tell.

We discussed much more, mainly on the chastisement that will come one day and he feels that the church will make it through to the years of peace that are promised.

Here is one of the visitations that he is certain of:
www.unitypublishing.com...

Once again, I apologize, and if I have left out any detail or am inaccurate in any way in the description of our discussion hopefully Mr. Salbato will step in to help.

STM


[edit on 9/24/2007 by seentoomuch]