Student Arrested, Tasered at Kerry Event

One more thing. When you attack Iran you will see American embassies burning all over the world. My father was always saying that you helped us in fight against russians... But now, like ppl in Afghanistan and many other places, i understand that it is only about your bussines... You will see me throwing rocks and molotov coctails on CNN... Most of my friends hate you. You are doing nothing to stop your government... Im saying again, wake up you lazy fat bastards!

Originally posted by Pellevoisin

Originally posted by Azrael-6

The Miranda thing... Miranda is only used once you are being questioned about a crime. If your not being questioned about specific details that may lead to self incrimination about a specific crime, then there is no need for miranda.

That is a complete misinterpretation of the Miranda decision. Also, it is an entirely incorrect assessment of the proper application of Miranda when putting an individual under arrest.

So much for cops knowing the law. I had a cop tell me when I was 17 that I couldn't get a regular license until I was 18. In PA, they call it a cinderella license. Well, I got my regular license by going through driver's ed and not getting any tickets. Guess at what age I got it? Yup, 17. Cops need to relearn the law.

Originally posted by Azrael-6
Its not a perfect system, but we are not all cop nazi's...

Thank god for that and you seem like a good guy. Can you give us advice on what we can do to change the system so the bad ones get left out?

Originally posted by shigawire
Im saying again, wake up you lazy fat bastards!

Not all of us are asleep, lazy or fat. But, thanks for the advice.

I have mixed range of emotions on this...I haven't had a chance to go through everyone's responses on this thread yet, but I did browse several pages.

Having been tased myself once before...Well - What more can I say than I'm still here and more the wiser...And while I still question the officer's use of force in my own case, their tool-belts contain quite a wide assortment of more lethal weapons I would have preferred the taser over.

Has anyone provided a link to the police report yet?
PDF

The limits of freedom of speech were tested here...I'm not making any historical reference to suggest that Andrew Meyer took his freedom of speech rights to the highest levels ever tested, but his actions/reactions did create this controversy...And after reading the police report, it becomes quite clear to me that these UF officers fairly paint the picture of what transpired...

If you are a guest student at a public speaker event in a university, your demeanor should not be the same as if you were out at a bar asking rhetorical questions to an imaginary John Kerry...This man appears to have been so heated in his own beliefs (which is a great thing on its own) that his emotions caused physical/mental discoordination...

Part of growing up is learning how to properly channel your feelings - Different atmospheres require different approaches...This man won't get far in life if he's denied his first job b/c he threw a fit in front of his perspective employers for their political beliefs.

What occurred was regrettable, and an abuse of force. The officers split-second decision to use the taser was a mistake - They are human...It happens...

That does not make the officers involved vile pigs or inexcusable martyrs of justice.

Should a taser be in the hands of a police officer? Certainly - It's a necessary tool that avoids more lethal forms of managing a difficult situation...There are more right reasons than wrong reasons...

The question really is, should we put a taser in every officer's hands? Should we have officers with tasers on a university campus? Should there be stricter punishments in place for officers who abuse their use of force?

You also have to consider one very important fact....This kid had a video camera and handed it off to some random girl in the audience before he began his diatribe....

When the cameras were on him, he acted up...When they were off him, he was peaceful and apologized to the officers...

Marry those two facts together, and this sounds more like a publicity stunt and a foolish kid who was seeking some attention....Purposefully disrupting the peace of a public event....The officers did not know this at the time, but several witnessed him handing over the camera to someone in the audience. I can't say whether I think that justifies the use of the taser, b/c even so, there were a multitude of officers there to handle him....But it seems clear his intentions were to make a scene for his own capitalization on popularity...If the officers involved were able to put two and two together during the incident, then they were right to usher him out and take whatever actions were necessary to restrain him.

Just my two cents!

reply to post by Griff


Then do somethig!!!!! Dont you see what is happening??

Originally posted by Azrael-6


A police officer does not have to tell anybody that they are under arrest until they would understand such a statement. I could have told that guy he was under arrest all day, but with his emotions so high, it proabably would not have registered to him.

before that. "hands on" was the FIRST approach used, with no request for him to leave. he was not informed that he was under arrest. he was already subued when they REPEATEDLY tazed him.

what charge would do you think is valid for this arrest? inciting a riot? i didn't see any riot.


remember kent state, folks. it was the warning shot, and that was over 30 yrs. ago.

haha music video remix of the event:

Originally posted by shigawire
reply to post by Griff

 

Then do somethig!!!!! Dont you see what is happening??

people ARE doing something. people like andrew meyer(sp?) AND GRIFF!!! you don't know what griff does or doesn't do, obviously.

it's going to get MUCH worse before(if) it gets better. you can tell by how many people support the 'right' of jackbooted THOUGHT POLICE to manhandle and deny rights to someone for TALKING.

education first, then 'action'.

[edit on 19-9-2007 by billybob]

Originally posted by Griff
#1. You say his mic was cut off and he became angry. Please show me where you see that. What I see is his mic cut off, he grins throws his hands up and BACKS AWAY from the microphone. He does not say another word until he is grabbed by police. So where is this angry outburst you are talking about?

You said you watched the videos then you must have seen the way he was trying to get away from the officers and not acknowledging their request for him to calm down the whole time. Spin it however you need to in order to make yourself feel good about this situation and your anger towards having to abide by standards of conduct in a free society.

Again, I'll say, why should we read ANY article spun by the news when we can ALL see what happened on film. And not just one film, at least 4 to 5 now that I have seen. And I have to disagree with your interpretation of the events since obviously I've seen it 5 more times than you have. Try watching the videos. There's one about 3 posts above yours that is right beside him. Where is this angry reaction you speak of?

That’s right every media outlet that doesn’t see it the way you do is a shill for the police state, I got you now it’s all a big conspiracy no matter how someone acts in public. And 5 times you couldn’t see where this guy went wrong.

Breaking a rule is NOT breaking the law.

It is when there are set standards for conduct in a public forum. Freedom of speech doesn’t apply when one willingly agrees to abide by the rules put in place for how one is to conduct themselves in a forum such as this scenario. This guy agreed to how the Q&A would be conducted. He got pissed when they cut him off and he wasn’t able to ask his Skull and bones question which I might add had nothing to do with the discussion at the time. And he acted like a scorned little child who didn’t get his bowl of ice cream before being told to go to bed.

Ahh. I see what the problem with the neocons are on this thread. It was a CT rant. If it had been anything else, I'd imagine it would have been ok.

No it wouldn’t have, the guy could have asked anything and if he didn’t follow the forums rules im sure he would have gotten the same treatment. Listen I have never stated I agreed with the treatment this guy got. If it was me id have dragged him out kicking and screaming so the forum could continue. The cops over reacted I think we can all agree on that. But the guy decided for himself that he would take the road he did and he got taken down.

You're sure? Are you positive of that? BTW, they need to tell you that you are under arrest and read you your rights. They did neither in this case.

Well your wrong here Griff, they don’t need to tell you while they are trying to subdue you. However they do need to tell you before they start asking you questions about the situation provided you are going to jail. I would be very surprised to find out he wasn’t read his rights at some point. And if the guy wasn’t read his rights then I would agree with you that they messed up but there is no proof he wasn’t read his rights.

There you have it folks. The admission of "if it doesn't affect me, then I don't give a rats ass" argument.

How do you get that from what I said? OF course I care about everyone’s rights WTF. I just don’t see them being taken away the way you do. I see people in these videos not willing to conduct themselves in a professional manner thinking they can act anyway they want and still be taken seriously, under the guise of freedom of speech. It seems some of you want the freedom to act and speak anyway you want to with out showing the same respect and concern for someone else’s right to not want to listen to it. Just a bit hypocritical to be sure. I get attacked becasue I dont agree with you. Same old song and dance my friend!!!!

reply to post by EnronOutrunHomerun


100% great post EOH You stated the facts much better than I was able to.

Yes the right of free speech was taken to the extreme limits here and I stand by my position that he acted way out of line and got the attention he was after.

Take care

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
The officers split-second decision to use the taser was a mistake - They are human...It happens...

Split second reaction? While 4 officers are on top of the guy? While the guy is pleading to not be tasered? Split second indeed. If that cop took that long to make that decision, I'd hate to have to call upon him to come to my aid.

Should there be stricter punishments in place for officers who abuse their use of force?

YES.

When the cameras were on him, he acted up...When they were off him, he was peaceful and apologized to the officers...

Yes, and his motive? To get his message out. I really doubt he went there to get arrested, tased, or even thrown out. But that is my speculation.

But it seems clear his intentions were to make a scene for his own capitalization on popularity...If the officers involved were able to put two and two together during the incident, then they were right to usher him out and take whatever actions were necessary to restrain him.

I don't get this line of thinking really and I mean no disrespect. This is a little extreme but do you think the college student in Tiananmen square just wanted to make a scene for his popularity or do you think there was a message involved? I think this kid had a message he wanted to get out. If that's a crime, go a head and roll the tanks....err tasers.

reply to post by geemony


they grabbed him before they asked him to leave. they shouldn't have touched him at all. when they did, it is ASSAULT.
when they subdued him, and THEN tazed him REPEATEDLY, it was TORTURE and/or ABUSE and EXCESSIVE FORCE.

there is no "right not to listen" in the constitution. you don't need a right to NOT DO something.

*insult goes here*

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Marry those two facts together, and this sounds more like a publicity stunt and a foolish kid who was seeking some attention....Purposefully disrupting the peace of a public event....

the last american election was a publicity stunt. i don't see anyone tasing the administration.

we need to do what anhorbor did if everyone stud up at the same time for their rights they would have no choice but to stand down.. lets be real most cops and military are not going to fight aginst their faimlies and friends.. i can say when i was in the military i would not have. we see things like this more and more. cops are worthless for the most part, there are verry few left that care about the law..

our right to bare arms was not made for hunting and sport it was put in place so that if the government was gaining to much power the people could take it back..

[edit on 15pmu122007 by DaleGribble]

Originally posted by geemony
Listen I have never stated I agreed with the treatment this guy got. If it was me id have dragged him out kicking and screaming so the forum could continue. The cops over reacted I think we can all agree on that. But the guy decided for himself that he would take the road he did and he got taken down.

I'll agree to that. Thanks for clearing that up because I thought you were defending the tasering and everything. I agree he should have been escorted. But the police should have calmed down also or had been calm from the begining. It took two to tango in that dance and the cops are the ones who took it too far. Always, just my opinion of course.

Well your wrong here Griff, they don’t need to tell you while they are trying to subdue you. However they do need to tell you before they start asking you questions about the situation provided you are going to jail. I would be very surprised to find out he wasn’t read his rights at some point. And if the guy wasn’t read his rights then I would agree with you that they messed up but there is no proof he wasn’t read his rights.

You could be right and I could be wrong. I'll admit it if I am. I thought they needed to tell you you were under arrest? At least if they are going to manhandle you? I could be wrong. But, I don't think I like the fact that any cop can just come up to me and lay his hands on me and when I try to break free (without knowing what I did wrong) it's resisting arrest. Like I said, I could be wrong. But to me that is just another police state law if you ask me.

I get attacked becasue I dont agree with you. Same old song and dance my friend!!!!

Sorry if you took it as an attack. Was just debating.

Originally posted by Griff This is a little extreme but do you think the college student in Tiananmen square just wanted to make a scene for his popularity or do you think there was a message involved? I think this kid had a message he wanted to get out. If that's a crime, go a head and roll the tanks....err tasers.

oh. the chinese prankster. his publicity stunt really ran like wildfire.
durn prankster jokers trying to get attention for frivolous whatnot.
like that lady that got cut in half with a machine gun at kent state.
protests, small gatherings, parties, ... all should be illegal. everyone should just SHUT UP and do what authority lets them.
puny humans are no match for corporate bureaucracies.

corporation

Originally posted by billybob
there is no "right not to listen" in the constitution. you don't need a right to NOT DO something.
*insult goes here*

So you have the right to say anything you want to me but I dont have the right to tell you I dont want to hear it. I guess i could always call FU security and have you removed.

* I can insult to Billy Bob *

The student's name is Andrew Meyer. I grew up with him. He is not on meds and he is not imbalanced in any way, unless you consider having an extreme political position "imbalanced". He is also not some superhuman that needs 7 cops restraining him. Andrew can get a little out of hand some times, even when we are sitting around having a friendly debate, but the police were way out of line; however, you all act like the police can just do what they want and get away with it.
Andrew was charged with "inciting a riot" and plead not guilty. The ACLU is on the scene backing him up, and John Kerry has publicly criticized the officers of needlessly stopping a "healthy conversation". In the video, and after the fact, Kerry has denounced this behavior. So how is he part of the problem? I don't know why those officers did what they did, but they will be punished for their actions in due time and Andrew will come out the other side with a fat paycheck and a great story.
So long as we have cell phone cameras and good people out their earnestly trying to protect our civil liberties in the public forum, a police state can never emerge. It's great that you are all watching, and all outrage about this incident. Keep supporting our rights, but remember to keep your feet on the ground.

Originally posted by Braeden
The student's name is Andrew Meyer. I grew up with him. He is not on meds and he is not imbalanced in any way, unless you consider having an extreme political position "imbalanced".

thanks for posting, and tell him thanks for his "prank,"

Originally posted by geemony

Originally posted by billybob
there is no "right not to listen" in the constitution. you don't need a right to NOT DO something.
*insult goes here*

So you have the right to say anything you want to me but I dont have the right to tell you I dont want to hear it. I guess i could always call FU security and have you removed.

* I can insult to Billy Bob *

i can't even follow the logic in that one...

just being argumentative for the sake of it eh?