Allah is NOT Some Pagan Moon God

There is no our God or their God or anybody else's God; there is only God. And it can be worshiped and approached in an infinite number of ways so long as the heart is open and pure.

The problem is dualistic thinking... black/white.... good/bad.... us/them.... Christian/Muslim... either/or... Republican/Democrat... Liberal/Conservative etc.

Such thinking has, while easy to understand, has caused nothing but problems ever since it reared its ugly little head.

There is no black/white.... good/bad.... us/them.... Christian/Muslim... either/or... Republican/Democrat... Liberal/Conservative etc. there is only us and until we put that dualistic mind frame aside and see that these problems and not endemic to Islam, or Christianity or to any other faith, or race or political view point or whatever, but are problems of how we look at the world and that it effects us all, nothing will change.

I cannot change your or anyone else's heart unless they want to change; I can only change my own and hope that it can and will influence others.



"These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family...Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind."

Baha'u'llah... Prophet founder of the Baha'i' faith cir. 1817/1892

First of all I live in the Bible Belt of America and have had this discussion more times than I care to mention. I have studied the history theology when time allows as a personal interest. I have read many of the posts on this thread. What has failed to be mentioned, or I didn't see it, is most of the holidays, and many of the same deep rooted beliefs in the "big 3 religions" Jew, Christian and Islam are from distant Pagan beliefs. Beliefs hoped to be exterminated by the slaughter of the vast and widely practiced Pagan following that preceded the rise of large "Divine Empires" of Europa. Empires that used God and "Spiritual Knowledge" as a way rule with power the and gain material wealth. All three have killed and gone to war in the name of their god and have at one time or another been used to gain political strength.

With this said the name Alla could have been a past Pagan moon God used without prior knowledge to the past meanings, as most if not all written scripture of the mystery schools of the Pagans were ordered burned when the schools were ordered destroyed. Those who attempted to keep the Pagan traditions and teachings alive in true Pagan form were often executed for their nonconformist ways. Instead Pagan beliefs were introduced and accepted in a different context often being added to the modern "big 3 religions" in elusive ways to avoid personal death.

Now don't get me wrong the Pagan tribes of old, and there were many with as many variations of beliefs were a people of war, but not wars over god or gods. To gain a more recent perspective of the Pagans of old you need only look at the more recent Native American beliefs. Different tribes with the same basic underlying beliefs along with very different variations.

To fight over who has the "RIGHT" God seems trivial when you understand that Christian and Islamic beliefs are both off shoots from the Jewish religion
all stained with Pagan blood and ideology of old.

sorry duplicate post

[edit on 8-9-2007 by HeavilyArmed]

reply to post by grover

The problem is dualistic thinking... black/white.... good/bad.... us/them.... Christian/Muslim... either/or... Republican/Democrat... Liberal/Conservative etc.

Such thinking has, while easy to understand, has caused nothing but problems ever since it reared its ugly little head.

There is no black/white.... good/bad.... us/them.... Christian/Muslim... either/or... Republican/Democrat... Liberal/Conservative etc. there is only us and until we put that dualistic mind frame aside and see that these problems and not endemic to Islam, or Christianity or to any other faith, or race or political view point or whatever, but are problems of how we look at the world and that it effects us all, nothing will change.

Grover, there is black, there is white, there is good and bad. Those are realities. Saying they aren't so won't make it that way. There is evil in this world and it will not stop until Christ comes again.

Jeremiah 6:15.Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down," saith the Lord.

Were they ashamed? Did they act ashamed? I never saw that. I know there are some among them that are and God knows who they are as well as those that committ the abominations.

1Thess.5:3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety;" then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

21.Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22.Abstain from all appearance of evil.

What those verses tell me is that there will be a peace at the end of days but it will be a false peace. Satan comes to earth pretending to be Christ and bringing peace and prosperity. If we don't know that, aren't taught that we will fall for the deception of that peace. Everyone wants peace but we have to know that it will not be true peace until the time of the 2nd Advent. Until then, hold fast to that which is good and abstain from evil. Those that truly follow God, of any religion, do that.

I cannot change your or anyone else's heart unless they want to change; I can only change my own and hope that it can and will influence others.

No, no one can change another's heart but we can try to influence others. We must, because there are others influencing in the wrong way.

"These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family...Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind."

Baha'u'llah... Prophet founder of the Baha'i' faith cir. 1817/1892

That is a beautiful thought and one we can all work toward but until evil is gone it will not happen, not in this age. It will one day.........



...Whirlwind

I am not trying to say that there is not evil in the world, there most certainly is. Rather I am saying that to define, a country, of a people, or a faith by the actions of a few and break it down to us/them, is the exact same thing that those we condemn are doing in regards to us.

Is there really so much difference in behavior... to launch an unprovoked terrorist attack against those they disagree with, or to invade unprovoked another country, because we don't like their government or perceive them as a threat?

No... there isn't. Not one iota... both are wrong.

We can never do away with evil... but we can all work to counteract its influence by being better... better Christians... better Jews... better Muslims... better Buddhists... better Baha'i's... better atheists.... better human beings period.

It is this notion of us and them that I am saying is wrong. There are far deeper problems than a disagreement about religion facing humanity today that need to be dealt with as humans regardless of race, religion, politics or government. because if we don't put aside those differences once and for all... all of us, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Baha'i' or atheist are up shat's creek without a poodle.

[edit on 8-9-2007 by grover]

reply to post by HeavilyArmed

To fight over who has the "RIGHT" God seems trivial when you understand that Christian and Islamic beliefs are both off shoots from the Jewish religion
all stained with Pagan blood and ideology of old.

As Grover stated, there is but one God - man determines how they will worship Him, be it as He wishes or not. It is our choice and will mean our salvation or our destruction. If you read His Word you see that He warns against any pagan blood or ideology. It is not part of His word which is contained in the Holy Bible.

Off shoots, as you put it, or anything or anyone that adds or subtracts from His Word, or any change in His Word, allows for the contamination by man or evil spirit. For that reason He locked in the orginal with the Massorah. It cannot be changed nor has it been from the beginning.


......Whirlwind

Originally posted by whirlwind

Off shoots, as you put it, or anything or anyone that adds or subtracts from His Word, or any change in His Word, allows for the contamination by man or evil spirit. For that reason He locked in the orginal with the Massorah. It cannot be changed nor has it been from the beginning.

......Whirlwind

I used to believe as you do now but the more I studied religion and spirituality and mysticism, first of just Christianity, and then later of all the religions, I came to see the handiwork of God in them all.

It does not matter which religion you follow. If it is done with an open and sincere heart, with love and compassion, God will accept all, no matter the path taken.

Originally posted by HeavilyArmed

To fight over who has the "RIGHT" God seems trivial when you understand that Christian and Islamic beliefs are both off shoots from the Jewish religion
all stained with Pagan blood and ideology of old.

Islam has nothing to do with Judaism. It is merely the fulfillment of prophecy.....a false prophet leading many to destruction. They certainly don't serve the same God or follow the 10 Commandments.

As far as Christianity.....it recognizes Jesus, the Messiah, who was not to be recognized by the Jews.......as prophesied.

NONSENSE. You don't know what you are talking about.

reply to post by grover


You can deny the facts and evidence all you want. That's a choice you make.

Can you not simply look at the fruit and see evil. Or do you stand in denial and blindness.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

You can deny the facts and evidence all you want. That's a choice you make.
Can you not simply look at the fruit and see evil. Or do you stand in denial and blindness.

I can see the evil of arrogance, intolerance and ignorance that is for sure, and there is nothing cool about it.

Self-righteousness was roundly condemned by Christ if you will recall.

It is intolerance that has made this world the mess that it is in and it doesn't matter whether its Christian intolerance, Muslim intolerance, Jewish intolerance etc. it is all wrong.

Originally posted by grover

I can see the evil of arrogance, intolerance and ignorance that is for sure, and there is nothing cool about it.

Well, that's your first step toward change. Congratulations

Self-righteousness was roundly condemned by Christ if you will recall.

That's why you need the righteousness of Christ. There is no self-righteousness.

It is intolerance that has made this world the mess that it is in and it doesn't matter whether its Christian intolerance, Muslim intolerance, Jewish intolerance etc. it is all wrong.

You're just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that everyone is not going to agree with you.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

You're just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that everyone is not going to agree with you.

Take your own advice.

You are one of the most intolerant and arrogant people I have ever encountered on ATSNN.



[edit on 9-9-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by grover

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

You're just going to have to learn to deal with the fact that everyone is not going to agree with you.

Take your own advice.

You are one of the most intolerant and arrogant people I have ever encountered on ATSNN.

Well, if facing the facts and truth is intolerant, then thanks. You sure do alot of accusing and finger pointing for a tolerant person.

I am simply pointing out your behavior, and your last post proves my point. Arrogant to the bone.

I don't even know why you bother to post.
It is impossible to have a dialog with you because it is either your way or the highway.
I have yet to see you convince anyone of your opinions.
I can only assume your sole purpose is to disrupt threads about subjects you disapprove of and to cram your opinions down others throats, whether they want to discuss them or not.

[edit on 9-9-2007 by grover]

reply to post by grover


You seem to be confusing the facts with opinion. Like I said, you sure do a lot of finger point and accusing for a tolerant individual. The truth is, your blood pressure is sky high because you sit in the denial of facts.

reply to post by Sun Matrix


I rest my case.

Ya know I was having an intelligent dialog with Whirlwind, even though we disagree... that is utterly impossible with you.

ok, did y'all get that out of your collective systems?

good

The next personal attack will come with a nice red flag and the potential for a posting ban to allow cooler heads to prevail.

Got it?

Good.

Now, let's cease all personal attacks and move back to discussing the topic at hand. Allah is not some pagan moon god.

discuss.