My Smokers' Rights: Plus a few questions for my fellow addicts.

reply to post by NateNute

yeah, thats a very nicely dressed up opinion piece, i've seen lots of them, now can you show me some good evidence.
for instance this statement

One of the experts, Sir Richard Doll, said: "Environmental tobacco smoke that people experience at work or at home is definitely a cause of lung cancer.

"That has been discussed for a long time but this is the first time a group of independent scientists have reviewed all the evidence and said there is no question it is a cause of lung cancer."

first of all scientists never ever say that ''there is no question'' there's always a question and a margin of error. secondly, there is absolutely no way to proove that the passive smoking caused the cancer and not another environmental factor, unless through long term clinical trial, which hasn't and won't happen.

also, i ask you how long per day you are exposed to fumes from car exhausts, if it is less than an hour, your in the minority.

I'm one of those people who gets a little touchy about my affinity for tobacco.

Now granted, I never smoke in the presence of children and make sure that my smoke never drifts in the path of non-smokers. I never litter my butts and carry a portable ashtray with me everywhere.

But when it comes to the taxation, I get a little miffed.

This might buy me some enemies on both sides, but I figure - if you're going to indulge in a little "systematic suicide" - why not do it with style and get the best brand out on the market?

Additive free, whole leaf...that's my vice. And at $7 a pack, it's easy to understand why I'm not a two pack a dayer.

For me, smoking is a pleasure. It's my only habit. I don't drink or touch illict substances, and honestly - I think think alcohol is much more of a negative social epidemic than tobacco. I don't want to bore you to death, so I'll dispense with the personal experiences.

As for the restrictions, I'm a little upset I can't enjoy a smoke while writing in a cafe or 24/7 diner anymore, but when it comes to not smoking in my own car, or home - hold on, buddy. I call shenannigans!

It's unbelievable that this is the topic that finally made me join.

Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimers, and Tourrettes syndrome are all diseases that affect the brain. Nicotine has been shown to have a positive impact on all of these, but that fact is so politically incorrect that you almost never hear of it.

The positive impact of nicotine on the brain in my case, I am a programmer, comes into play when I am having difficulty with a complex task. 99% of the time I go out and have a smoke and the answer pops into my head. Nicotine, in my case has the effect of clearifying my thoughts.

I can see why the government would want to ban something that has that effect.

It's interesting also how they attribute smoking to such a vast array of illnesses. The logic goes like this. The doctor says, hey it looks you've come down with lung cancer, do you smoke? No you answer. Ok then does anyone you live with smoke? No, again. Well have you ever worked with a smoker, been in a bar or restaurant with a smoker. Well, yes you respond and the doctor says, Aha, I see, well your lung cancer is obviously caused by second hand smoke.

I do understand where non-smokers are coming from, the government has spent years terrifying them. Also, I agree cigarette smoke doesn't smell all that great (pipes smell pretty good though). I do not agree with taxing something and then using the money collected to fight the thing that was taxed. That is most certainly taxation without representation.

Anyway, after a lot of lurking, it took this topic to get me to jump in.

Originally posted by dawnstar


we'd probably put up the money to build ourselves a nice little "clubhouse" and a bunch of anti-smokers would sue to be allowed in, then they'd start griping about the shs....

It's been done. Remember the people aquariums that coffee shops and bars put up for smokers? Now they've been done away with. Political tool. Smokers are in the minority and to make points with the majority(nonsmokers) they regulate these out of existence, even though the nonsmokers wouldn't go in them. Power to the people.

BUT, if we DID make our own, you can be sure as shooting that the nonsmokers would complain about that too.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on this one.

I'm a non-smoker, never have tried it. I grew up in a home with both parents smoking 2-3 packs a day.

I sometimes have to agree with the smokers though. It's not fair to ban smoking in certain areas, like bars, bowling alleys etc.

Here is the thing that makes me wonder, what happens if ( God forbid ) we do quit smoking, who do you think they will start taxing to make up for the lost tobacco tax? The Government is notorious for KEEPING the money coming in, will they start taxing TV/PC use, because it "harms the environment" after all? Maybe they should make a SUV tax that you have to pay on a weekly basis, not just a gasoline Tax, but a Road use tax, the SUV is heavier, and tears up the road/pollutes more. This is the thing the militant non-smoker doesn't think about, if they get their wish, then they will have to make up for the lost revenue.

I sometimes have to agree with the smokers though. It's not fair to ban smoking in certain areas, like bars, bowling alleys etc.
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or in workplaces that are so toxic that the danged birds are dropping from the ceiling!!!

that's what got me...
my husband has machined parts from blocks of lead, silver, steels, whatever all his life....anyone here have any idea what the original tin man died from?? his face was colored with aluminum powder...he died from aluminum poisoning...all metals can be quite toxic, and my husband has been breathing in a wonderful cocktail of these for about 30 years or so...
it has probably shortened his lifespan far more than the second hand smoke the average non-smoker will breath in in his lifetime...buy hey, ya tell the man he can't enjoy a cigarette in that lovely shop filled with metal dust and see what he'll do....ya, he just moved to a state where he could!

the same goes for me....don't think you're gonna be able to get me to work around a bunch of toxic crap and then tell me I can't smoke in the place because you want your clean air.....I'll just take my cigs and leave and you can find someone else to poison themselves with your toxic crap!

reply to post by thedigirati


Arizona is Hooked on Cigarette Tax Revenue

State Cigarette Taxes

Texas Tax Revenue from 2006

And on and on the list goes...

If every single person quit smoking ( ) the states would be BROKE.

How would they make up for it? ...raise taxes on food and water. Or introduce another legal lethal-ized substance...

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Diseria]

reply to post by intrepid


The only way to skirt around it is to make the club/bar/diner private. You must pay a fee and show a card in order to enter.

I've heard that if you bitch enough at certain restaurants and bars, that there are 'back rooms' where smokers can smoke freely. But the owners cannot offer it as optional seating when you enter, and must (overall) keep it rather secretive.


"What's the law now, you can only smoke in your house, under the blankets, with all the lights off?" -- Denis Leary

Ok, the not smoking in your house or car thing is a little extreme but the one thing i would like, unless its already passed, is to have it be illegal to smoke around children and i have and experience on this: while growing up i was exposed to alot of smoking from my parents and now i have one under developed lung and another that is ok but because of second hand smoke i now have ashma. My mom has quit smoking and other people around me goes out to smoke. Ok now on another note you compare smoking to junkfood and drinks, i personally dont drink alcohol, i hate the stuff, but smoking does not satisfy the natural body need. when you drink soda or something you are getting some liquid in the system when your eating junk food, which i know everyone eats either alot or little, satisfys somewhat the need for hunger and smoking i see nothing but the satisification of the nicotine in your brain which wasnt there in the first place! and if you say oh i cant quit learn this example: my mom was a heavy smoker smoked like 1 to 2 packs a day sometimes more and the one way she quit was to be stuck in the hospital being treated. i dont recommend going to the hospital first, the only time i say is when you need treatment for something else and then there is a chance. Other options do work and i recommend doing them first all you need to have to have it work is will power. feel free to comment on this i do want your opinion on my comment

reply to post by Rammathion


While not being legislated it really is only common sense not to smoke around kids. My father and grandfather did and I smoke. I smoke outside and my three kids, 17-12 don't smoke. It just makes sense.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Listen:

Cigarretes are bad for YOU. Alcohol is bad for for non drinkers who are killed, their lifes ended by a drunk driver.

Get rid of alcohol. NOW.

I believe there are some 71 deaths per day due to alcohol.

Disgustingly enough I only smoke when I drink (maybe once every 2-3 months and the bartender looks at me like I'm crazy when I leave the cigarettes there ). It's a gross habit and most people who smoke will admit to that, however.....for someone to say that no one has the RIGHT to smoke and then compare it to drugs or alcohol is absurd.

I think people have every right to smoke in their home or car as long as there are no children . Restaurants, no. Bars (not clubs), yes. Street corners, no. Sporting events, no.

IDK...just my opinions.








[edit on 8/28/2007 by CSkys]

While haggling over the price of a guitar at a music shop in a Beijing shopping mall, I was a little surprised to see the clerk pull out a pack of smokes and offer me one.

Needless to say I joined him. Being a Canadian, I can`t remember the last time I`ve been allowed to do something like that.

Here in Japan, for what it`s worth, I can smoke most places. Certain cafes are fully non-smoking, and certain others are fully smoking or half and half... it`s the owner`s decision. It tends to be respected, and no one seems to complain much if told they can`t light up, because there are still places you can.

Sushi shops, for example, are traditionaly non-smoking. There may be a small room off to the side where you can smoke, but in my experience that`s the exception rather than the rule. Many places with counter service will be non-smoking during peak hours. That`s fine, I`ve got no problem with that.

In Tokyo and Osaka, there are certain streets you can`t smoke on while walking. They tend to be the approach to busy subway stations. From what I heard, it started with some careless smoker accidentaly burning a kid on the face a couple of years ago. So there are non-smoking cops that will ticket you if they see you smoking in the crowd.

BUT:

There are also clean, maintained smoking areas on these streets, often covered. The Tobacco companies sponsor them, and pay people to come by and empty the ashtrays and so forth.

At festivals, it`s not uncommon to see a smoking bus: owned by Japan Tobacco, it`s a nice little well-ventilated bus, complete with LCD tvs, newspapers, and girls handing out samples. It`s a trade off: They ask that we don`t smoke around the kids, so they give us a nice place to smoke instead. What`s wrong with that? Same at the airports - the smoking rooms at the domestic departures at Haneda are actually quite nice.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
for my fellow smokers out there that are getting good a sick of the prices of cigarettes growing exponentially, you may want to check out My Smokers' Rights

"My Smokers' Rights" by R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company. The second largest tobacco company in America. Somehow I doubt they care about your "rights" and are more interested in their profit.

If you want to kill yourself with smoking or Big Macs, that's your decision and I don't really care provided it doesn't effect me.
The big problem if smoking is truly your decision. I'm a former smoker and everyone I know who does or has smoked took it up as a teenager due to stupid teenaged reasons. Likely none of us would have taken up the habit as an adult. But as an adult we are already addicted to the stuff. Personally it took me 5 years of quiting before I finally got off the stuff.
This is a powerful addiction. Should tobacco companies have the right to sell a product so addictive and so deadly? Would a new product that was as addictive and deadly pass approval to be sold to the public?

I wonder when the US will catch up with the rest of the world!?!??!!??!

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Rammathion

 

While not being legislated it really is only common sense not to smoke around kids. My father and grandfather did and I smoke. I smoke outside and my three kids, 17-12 don't smoke. It just makes sense.

I wish it made sence to everybody. I see parents pulling their smokes out of the diaper bag and lighting up all the time (or something similar).

One windy and freezing day my son (who was 3 at the time) and I were waiting in a bus shelter. The bus shelter clearly states NO SMOKING all over the glass but this one guy decided that decided that didn't apply to him because of the weather. So he lights up with me and my son in the bus shelter, not even trying to blow the smoke out of the door.
I point out the no smoking signs and he just says, "its windy."
So I stormed out saying that I guess it isn't too windy for a three year old.

Smoker's rights. What about my son's right to health?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by NateNute
Your smoke burns my eyes, makes my food taste bad, and increases my chances of getting cancer from your second hand smoke, thanks. Oh, and your clothes/breath smells.

Why didn't you just say, "You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny." About the same attitude. THIS is what drives smokers nuts. We don't mind going outside, observing the rights of nonsmokers BUT this attitude makes us want to forget about those rights.

Well, Mr. Moderator, someone being ugly or dessing funny are merely opinions. Now eyes burning, food tasting bad, increased chances of disease, bad breat, clothes stinking, these are all facts. I would suspect a moderator would know the difference.

Originally posted by Umbrax
So he lights up with me and my son in the bus shelter, not even trying to blow the smoke out of the door.
I point out the no smoking signs and he just says, "its windy."
So I stormed out saying that I guess it isn't too windy for a three year old.

Smoker's rights. What about my son's right to health?

I agree Umbrax. That's not cool. He shouldn't have done it. Hell, I've smoked outside in weather not fit for a duck. What was his motivation though? Had he encountered militant anti-smokers, like the ones in this thread and he just didn't give a # anymore? I'm not saying that that is justification, it's not but when a person gets pushed around they tend to fight back, or not care.

Maybe the anti crowd should back off a bit. They've already won. Give the smokers some peace. If you let us, we're only killing ourselves.

wow! tobacco in america is really cheap! compared to england, a pack of 20 smokes will cost between £5-7 which is around $12-14! A pack of 12.5grams (0.44 oz) will cost around £2.50 which works out around $5! as for the rights, we cant smoke in public places, and there is even talk about banning it from our own homes!

I feel for the smokers, and I still can't figure out why they are such a target,
It makes me want to light up

My dad and grandad both smoked into their eighties, neither died of smoke related illnesses,