How Did the Hijackers Find the Pentagon, Anyway?

here's a video of the 757 200 doing a high-speed flyby.

These aircraft may be big, but they're also rather maneuverable.

One thing that keeps getting overlooked is this: people keep making reference to their size, and maximum takeoff weight (certainly the case when talking about the WTC) and that they were really heavy and fast on the day hence allthe damage, but actually, they were ALL pretty light.

I don't think any of them had any more than 80 passengers on them, they'd all been flying for a good 90 minutes before they were crashed (and at low level, too, where jets aren't exactly fuel efficient anyway), and none of them would have been fully fueled as they wouldn't require all that fuel to get to where they were going.

The maneuvers that the aircraft pulled are by no means impossible - you just don't see it in normal day-to-day flight ops as the passengers would feel pretty sick pretty quickly, and passenger comfort would be rated a 0 out of 10. !

[edit on 30-8-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Wouldn't the passengers revolt under this fore warned Osama attack.
Surly the threat of death might have sent some into action.

The attack: Arab take over of passengers and pilot controls was it
that much of a surprise.

All that to speculation, however, can an airliner go so low without
the landing gear down?

The Pentagon and Manhattan Island are restricted Zones and any GPS
guidance must set off warnings and reset the plane course.

The airliners are flown by computer as it is and a good reason to have
unauthorized transit given an avoidance takeover in flight.

Cell phone communications has been determined an impossibility, so
why do we have 'that' official story.
The equipment was never installed and never tested before due to
official ban on use of cell phones in flight.
Was the ban used to hide the fact the cell phone would not work
in flight.

Well if it wasn't Arabs then a small plane might have exploded inward,
thats what the damage looks like. No pilot GPS satelite guided missile
or some mk ultra human pilot without fuel shutoff training.

can an airliner go so low without
the landing gear down?

Yes.

The Pentagon and Manhattan Island are restricted Zones and any GPS
guidance must set off warnings and reset the plane course.

Huh??

The airliners are flown by computer as it is and a good reason to have
unauthorized transit given an avoidance takeover in flight.

??????

The 757 doesn't have installed GPS, and INS isn't smart enough to do that. The airspace directly over the Pentagon might be restricted but the approach path to National isn't. All you would have to do is set the course for National, get near the Pentagon and manually take over the plane and fly it into the building.

They are NOT flown by computers. They are flown by pilots, who have computers to assist them with navigation and keeping the plane in flight. They didn't start flying highly computerized planes until Airbus started building fly by wire planes. Boeing didn't build a fly by wire airliner until the 777. Nothing earlier required highly sophisticated computers, because the controls were moved using hydraulic servos and control cables.

Originally posted by Tuning Spork

Originally posted by Conundrum04
So debunkers let me get this straight:

The hijackers are flying towards the pentagon but decide to make a 330 degree turn to re-align the plane to hit the one and only side of the pentagon that just recently got reinforced just in case of an attack on said pentagon. Said hijackers, instead of doing the most obvious bonzai straight dive into this penta-gon, decide that it would be easier to fly in feet above the penta-gon lawn to hit the only reinforced section of the penta-gon causing the least amount of damage to said penta-gon possible.

Yeah, that's believeable.

Are you people beyond gullible?

Are you people even smart enough to discern a Spielberg movie from the real world?

The highjackers made the turn because when they were first able to spot the Pentagon they were at 7,000 feet.

They hit the side of the Pentagon that they hit because that was the side of the Pentagon that was facing them when they hit it.

im not to bright at this kind of stuff, but how would we know that the hijackers first spotted the pentagon at 7000 feet? its kind of just a general knowledge question.

Said hijackers, instead of doing the most obvious bonzai straight dive into this penta-gon, decide that it would be easier to fly in feet above the penta-gon lawn to hit the only reinforced section of the penta-gon causing the least amount of damage to said penta-gon possible.

An enigma, isn't it.

I never thought of it that way, in the after analysis, I just said how
lucky or how fortunate. I just do not think the opposite.


Actually that summer the History Channel the re enforced side was
covered. And I immediately thought, thats where any attack goes.

Then, why should the Pentagon by wary of attack.

Don't even think I thought, of course Osama.

Right now I getting a re hash of WWII on PBS...

here is what I think about it

what actually happened at the end....

and waiting for something like this..

And so it goes, who are the conquerers.

im not to bright at this kind of stuff, but how would we know that the hijackers first spotted the pentagon at 7000 feet? its kind of just a general knowledge question.

Good question.

Ever ride in a helicopter... you see air, sky..and aether if you think like me
these days, you do not see ground like a map.

I requested to see the ground and the pilot maneuvered a nasty tilt that
had me come out with a reversal of request.

Of course I had to fake my way out and go hum hum hum
at such an awkward and stunned situation and say OK thats fine.

Re con is not for me.

They tracked the plane on radar at the end, once it crossed into the primary radar coverage area around the two Washington DC airports. And it almost hit a C-130, coming within about a mile of where it was. Knowing how long it took them to descend to impact, and the altitude of the C-130 when they crossed, they can calculate approximately what altitude Flight 77 was at when it began the turn to line up with the Pentagon.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Just curious....

Do you believe that the C-130 pilot Steve O'Brien witnessed the attack?

Do 'they' have or is there an NTAC(?) that shows the flight like the video

JFK JR had that showed the nose dive.

By now 'they' could make up one I suppose.

The Government can't give us satisfaction that for sure.

We Can't Get No (Conspiracy) Satisfaction.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Let me guess, you've proven that there's no way he possibly could have witnessed it and was told to say that he did.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Wrong.

So does that mean you believe he witnessed the attack?

im not to bright at this kind of stuff, but how would we know that the hijackers first spotted the pentagon at 7000 feet? its kind of just a general knowledge question.

The flight data recorder recorded all kinds of information about the last 30 minutes of the flight, including the altitudes and vectors.

Originally posted by Tuning Spork

im not to bright at this kind of stuff, but how would we know that the hijackers first spotted the pentagon at 7000 feet? its kind of just a general knowledge question.

The flight data recorder recorded all kinds of information about the last 30 minutes of the flight, including the altitudes and vectors.

Yes sir.

And it doesn't match any of the physical damage.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Sure. Why not. It should be fun to see where this is going and why you bothered to ask me.

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
So does that mean you believe he witnessed the attack?

Can you be more specific about what you mean by attack? Do you mean the actual impact of flight 77 at the Pentagon?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

 

Sure. Why not. It should be fun to see where this is going and why you bothered to ask me.

Heh.

Because he didn't.

He never said that he did.

You just assumed it because all reports of his accounts have been ambiguous in this regard and have deliberately implied it.

I believe the C-130 pilot.

I do not think he was "in on it".

He was called in by ATC to help sow confusion and provide a "real" plane that can get blended with reports of a fabricated "2nd plane" that allegedly "shadowed" the AA jet and "veered away" over the Pentagon immediately after the explosion.

There was no second plane that veered away over the Pentagon immediately after the explosion.

These fake accounts were meant to be used as a cover story for those who may have seen the actual plane fly over the building.

How do I know he didn't see the attack?

Because he told me direct that he not only didn't see the plane hit the building but when he first saw the explosion he was so high up and far away that he didn't even know it came from the Pentagon!

Here is an email direct from Steve O'Brien stating this:

"I distinctly remember having a difficult time keeping the AA flight in sight after we turned back to the east to follow it per a request from Wash. Departure Control. When I saw the initial explosion I was not able to see exactly where or what it had impacted, but remember trying to approximate a position to give to ATC. It was then that I was able to see the sun reflecting off the Potomac and the runway at Wash. Nat'l and thought to myself that the AA flight must have had some sort of IFE and was trying to make it back to National Airport."

-Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien

So he "turned around to follow it" but he never actually got the chance to follow it.

Yet this is NEVER clarified and all reports/interviews with him incorrectly imply that he had a perfect view of the entire event going down.


This is not the case.


[edit on 31-8-2007 by Craig Ranke CIT]

I knew he didn't see the initial impact. I had heard him say that in another interview I stumbled across. I was just curious where you were going with it. I do believe that he saw the plane, because it's kinda hard to miss a 757 at less than a mile, but I had already heard that he didn't see the impact.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I knew he didn't see the initial impact. I had heard him say that in another interview I stumbled across. I was just curious where you were going with it. I do believe that he saw the plane, because it's kinda hard to miss a 757 at less than a mile, but I had already heard that he didn't see the impact.

Really?

What interview?

I don't remember where or when, just that I remember him saying that he didn't see the actual impact. I didn't know that they weren't sure it even came from the Pentagon. But I do remember hearing somewhere that he didn't see the actual impact. But if you read into some of his other interviews you can get a picture that he didn't, even without him saying it. He talks about seeing the plane hit the ground, not the building. If he had seen the impact into the building you would expect him to say the plane hit the building.